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Subject: Mayday Games on Kickstarter & Deniath rss

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Hugh G. Rection
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It's about damn time the popcorn showed up! Gettin' hungry over here.
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Sixteen Blue
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Here's the thing. Even if you assume there's nothing malicious here, it's clear that Mayday is a BAD business. Why would you give your money to them? Why would you not buy from one of the many solid options out there? Even if you don't care about the fact that dozens (if not more) of people have been screwed by their "disorganization" you're still risking throwing away your own money to maybe save a few bucks. That's just not smart and it gives Mayday no incentive to ever improve.
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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J.L.Robert wrote:
CapAp wrote:
J.L.Robert wrote:
Any claims of criminal acts or conspiracy on his part are speculative at best, libelous at worst.

Are you familiar with his ebay history?


I don't need to. With as many instances as have been reported here, I know well enough to be wary.

Be careful how you handle that pitchfork, J.L.
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J.L. Robert
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Sphere wrote:
J.L.Robert wrote:
CapAp wrote:
J.L.Robert wrote:
Any claims of criminal acts or conspiracy on his part are speculative at best, libelous at worst.

Are you familiar with his ebay history?


I don't need to. With as many instances as have been reported here, I know well enough to be wary.

Be careful how you handle that pitchfork, J.L.


Nah. I don't want to see Mayday burnt to the ground.

It would be nice to see them IMPROVE, however.
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Tim Buckley
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maydaygames wrote:
We have a very part-time employee, Sarah, who handles customer service and order processing.


Just a suggestion from an uninvolved third party but maybe THIS should be the focus going forward? If all of these instances are just various mistakes/errors/miscommunications, then perhaps getting more than a "very part-time employee" to help you handle them would be in the best interest of you and your company? How can you or any customers reasonably expect "guaranteed customer satisfaction" without a full-time person handling those duties? Seth, you yourself have already listed all the duties you perform, so it's obviously not reasonable that you can handle customer service as well...

Anyway, just my 2 cents from someone who would like to see Mayday Games IMPROVE rather than be constantly bashed for poor service.
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Brian Brokaw
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I know of a full time customer service rep. probably still looking for a job:

Paul Christoforo
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Hugh G. Rection
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J.L.Robert wrote:
Nah. I don't want to see Mayday burnt to the ground.

It would be nice to see them IMPROVE, however.


How many years would you say is enough time to improve? It's not like he's new at this business, or even business in general. It's not his first day on the job.

And then there's the history of blatant lying and shilling. Seth lied directly to me regarding his involvement with Empire Board Games, and it's documented here:

Stone Age in stock $22.50 and Jamaica for $36.. free ship over $90

And here's the thread where Seth got busted (by Aldie, no less) for shilling using his wife's name.

25% off Catan at Amazon.com + Free s/h!

So tell me, future brother, how does one with no qualms about dishonesty in business IMPROVE?

Answer: He gets better at spinning his lies. (Though Seth doesn't appear to have gotten there yet)
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Alison Chen
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maydaygames wrote:
Yes this was a mistake with Weykick getting on Deniath for several hours and there were probably 5 or so people who are getting the game for less than the Kickstarter people by a few bucks at the end of the day...


maydaygames wrote:
we are living pretty cheap at present


While I sympathize with you, you need to keep in mind that you are not the only one living on a budget. $39 is NOT a few bucks!

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Steve Rogers
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ZOMG that is the best shitty-company saga I've ever read. God bless Penny Arcade.
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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Hugh_G_Rection wrote:
And then there's the history of blatant lying and shilling. Seth lied directly to me regarding his involvement with Empire Board Games, and it's documented here:

Stone Age in stock $22.50 and Jamaica for $36.. free ship over $90

That one is a classic. If anybody wonders why people immediately quote anything Seth posts, that thread provides a good example. When Seth gets caught out in a lie, he goes back and deletes his posts and then denies he ever wrote them.

Note that two people on that page quoted a post of Seth's where he's still pretending he doesn't know much about Empire Games: "I appologize to Empire for apparently making their new site look bad. From what I've read they have been around for a while ..." etc.

Then Seth deleted what he'd written after somebody posted the link to the Utah Secretary of State's website, where it showed that the registered agent for Empire Games was Hiatt & Hiatt Enterprises. It's all there on the first page of that linked thread. Caught red-handed.

A lot of people want to assume that Seth is simply naive, or confused, but incidents like that one convinced me long ago that he is just flat dishonest. There's no other reasonable explanation.

It takes industrial strength rose colored glasses to see all of Seth's problems as the result of misunderstandings. He got misunderstood to the point that eBay barred him from doing further business there. He got misunderstood to the point that the Better Business Bureau have him an "F" rating (on an A to F scale). He gets misunderstood in a new fiasco here at least once or twice a year.

I'd believe in the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy sooner than I'd believe that Seth is just an honest guy who makes mistakes here and there.

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Alison Chen
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This is the first time I supported any kickstarter project, and what a let down!

I've never heard of Seth Hiatt's name prior to seeing this project...and now I'm VERY CONCERNED. So far he hasn't been able to provide a satisfying solution and his comments are contradicting.

Perhaps he needs some time to workout this issue within Mayday Games, and with Kickstarter and Deniath. I'm going to give him my LAST benefit of the doubt, and wait just a little longer to see what Seth's FINAL RESOLUTION will be for this issue. If he can't provide a resolution that meets our satisfaction, I will join the others in boycotting Mayday Games.
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J.L. Robert
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Hugh_G_Rection wrote:
J.L.Robert wrote:
Nah. I don't want to see Mayday burnt to the ground.

It would be nice to see them IMPROVE, however.


How many years would you say is enough time to improve?


As many as it takes him to clean up the act and win back my trust. I might then consider buying from Mayday (if they ever carry a product I'm truly interested in).

Who sets the limit on the number of errors one gets to make in a lifetime?
 
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Bruce Voge III
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This all reminds me of the old Groucho Marx quote : "The secret of life is honesty and fair-dealing. If you can fake that, you’ve got it made."

Seems like one to grow on.
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Richard Keiser

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Good to hear your terms. Now, with that in mind, I have an offer...

I will sell you ten (10x) Mint, in shrink, copies of Avalon Hill's The Longest Day. All you need to do is send me a mere $500 (in cash). My business promises to ship them out immediately upon receipt of your monies.

I look forward to a long, and prosperous, business relationship with you.

J.L.Robert wrote:
Hugh_G_Rection wrote:
J.L.Robert wrote:
Nah. I don't want to see Mayday burnt to the ground.

It would be nice to see them IMPROVE, however.


How many years would you say is enough time to improve?


As many as it takes him to clean up the act and win back my trust. I might then consider buying from Mayday (if they ever carry a product I'm truly interested in).

Who sets the limit on the number of errors one gets to make in a lifetime?
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David C
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Sphere wrote:
He got misunderstood to the point that the Better Business Bureau have him an "F" rating (on an A to F scale). He gets misunderstood in a new fiasco here at least once or twice a year.


I didn't know that.

I also didn't even know that was possible, because I've been outright ripped-off and the BBB still upheld the business as being right to basically detonate the valves on my car.

So you've achieved something amazingly special to fall from an A to a B. An A to an F?! Unreal.
 
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Craig.
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bippi wrote:
Sphere wrote:
He got misunderstood to the point that the Better Business Bureau have him an "F" rating (on an A to F scale). He gets misunderstood in a new fiasco here at least once or twice a year.


I didn't know that.

I also didn't even know that was possible, because I've been outright ripped-off and the BBB still upheld the business as being right to basically detonate the valves on my car.

So you've achieved something amazingly special to fall from an A to a B. An A to an F?! Unreal.

BBB.org » Search for Business Name » Mayday Games = BBB Business Review » Mayday Games aka Hiatt Enterprises, Inc. = F
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Mayday Games
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Look at the "complaints" on the business there the 4 of them that are there are from 2009. This is because we changed of our business when we went from an online reseller of other people's games to Mayday Games, Inc.

We are talking to the BBB about this to get our actual company listed since Hiatt & Hiatt hasn't existed in a couple of years and all of the contact info (address/phone/email) has long since stopped working for that business.

I don't know how the "AKA Mayday Games" got on there but we'll get it fixed as soon as the BBB replies to us.
 
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Sixteen Blue
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maydaygames wrote:
Look at the "complaints" on the business there the 4 of them that are there are from 2009. This is because we changed of our business when we went from an online reseller of other people's games to Mayday Games, Inc.

We are talking to the BBB about this to get our actual company listed since Hiatt & Hiatt hasn't existed in a couple of years and all of the contact info (address/phone/email) has long since stopped working for that business.

I don't know how the "AKA Mayday Games" got on there but we'll get it fixed as soon as the BBB replies to us.


Dozens of stories of unsatisfied customers and you still have to put complaints in quotes? You don't seem very concerned with the unhappy customers, just protecting your name. Why would that inspire me to patronize your business?
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Mayday Games
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We are very concerned with unhappy customers, that is why I replied. The complaints on BBB are from 2009 and from a business that hasn't existed in a couple of years. Call the phone number, drive by the Freeport Center, that lease expired a couple of years ago.

We are concerned with unhappy customers. Yes there have been some unhappy customers, but there are a lot of happy ones too.


Here are a few of the positive things our customers are saying too.

Fantastic Service from Mayday Games!
fastest shipping - ever
Great Service from Mayday Games
Mayday Games: How to resolve any issue
Feedback for Mayday Games
Great Service From Mayday Games
To sleeve or not to sleeve?
Kudos to Mayday Games: The saga of the crokinole boards continues
Updated: At Mayday, "IN STOCK!" does not mean "in stock" as most people understand it
Apparent year end move.Delay in reply from Mayday Games
A great Mayday customer service experience for an unfortunate circumstance
Card Game Sleeves
MayDayGames gets an A in my book for effort!
Mayday Green sleeves sold out everywhere?
Mayday Games - A pleasant surprise
Great Service From Mayday Games
Mayday Games - Pleasant Surprise?
 
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Craig.
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maydaygames wrote:


You have posted this collection of forum threads (or a subset thereof) in various locations at different times. However, I find it to be an interesting, if not confusing selection of threads. Ignore the thread titles. Reading through each of the provided threads reveals that nearly all of them are about persistent problems encountered with a Mayday product (mostly sleeves). The customers had a favorable experience because Mayday eventually followed-up and resolved the problem(s), but you're really missing the point of why people are unhappy with Mayday. Most, if not all, of these problems should NOT have occurred in the first place. Providing replacements and refunds for avoidable problems in not good customer service, it is REQUIRED customer service! If Mayday would correct the manufacturing and shipping problems, then so much follow-up customer service and replacements would not be necessary. Make a quality product free of defects, fill orders with the correct items, and send them out on time and properly packaged. All of this done right the first time would save money in the long run and make customers happy.

thumbsdown Fantastic Service from Mayday Games! - Date: Nov 2009; Problem(s): Defective sleeves; Resolution(s): Replacements sent.

thumbsdown Great Service from Mayday Games - Date: Dec 2011; Problem(s): Defective stickers for Get Bit!, Missing items from Eaten By Zombies Kickstarter proejct; Resolution(s): Get Bit! sticker replacements sent twice (first set sent were also defective); missing items sent.

thumbsdown Mayday Games: How to resolve any issue - Date: Jan 2011; Mixed bag of feedback - Some positive feedback and then a list of problems with defective sleeves, missing shipments, unclear order/stock status, etc.

thumbsdown Feedback for Mayday Games - Date: Apr 2009; Mixed bag of feedback - Problem(s): Poor order status information; defective/inconsistent sleeves...

thumbsdown Great Service From Mayday Games - Date: Dec 2011; Problem(s): Incorrect sleeves sent by Mayday; Resolution(s): Replacements sent.

thumbsdown To sleeve or not to sleeve? - Date: Jan 2011; This thread is mostly about whether or not to sleeve Dominion cards; users stated that they used Mayday standard sleeves; am I missing something here?

thumbsdown Updated: At Mayday, "IN STOCK!" does not mean "in stock" as most people understand it - Date: Dec 2010; Problem(s): Delayed/missing order shipments and incorrect stock status, etc.

thumbsdown Apparent year end move.Delay in reply from Mayday Games - Date: Jan 2011; Problem(s): Unable to get customer services responses from Mayday; delayed/shipping sleeve shipments.

thumbsdown A great Mayday customer service experience for an unfortunate circumstance - Date: Jan 2011; Problem(s): 18 packs of defective sleeves; Resolution(s): Replacements sent.

thumbsdown MayDayGames gets an A in my book for effort! - Date: Oct 2010; Problem(s): Missing shipment of sleeves with some going out of stock while waiting for order to ship; Resolution(s): Apology and alternative sleeves eventually sent.

thumbsdown Mayday Green sleeves sold out everywhere? - Date: May 2011; Problem(s): Sleeve order shipments delayed by 1-2 months, people cancelling orders; Resolution(s): Sleeves eventually sent late June (preorders were supposed to be shipped in May).

thumbsdown Mayday Games - A pleasant surprise - Date: Feb 2011; Problem(s): Defective sleeves; Resolution(s): Replacements sent.

thumbsdown Great Service From Mayday Games - Date: Dec 2011; Problem(s): Received incorrect sleeves (Mayday shipped the wrong ones); Resolution(s): Replacements sent.

thumbsdown Mayday Games - Pleasant Surprise? - Date: Nova 2009; Problem(s): 9 of 12 packs of sleeves were defective; Resolution(s): Refund provided.
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Isaac Finkelstein
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That is a pretty comical collection of threads to present as "positive things our customers are saying" when they are pretty much all about problems.

To me, a "positive thing our customers are saying" is like when people post glowing reviews about B&B and Coolstuff. Where not only did their order go off without a hitch, but there was some special bonus like an expansion thrown in for free or something done that was above and beyond.
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Adam Kunsemiller
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It's been very interesting watching all of this unfold. I must admit, I had no idea of Seth's reputation and history until about a week ago, when I stumbled upon the empiregames thread, then went and got some popcorn and started reading the various crokinole threads. I have purchased a few of Mayday's products in the past (I've also won two of their crokinole boards) and generally would say that I've been happy with them as a company.

But here's the thing, certain items are hard for me to ignore, and there are two of them.

In the empiregames item Seth outright lied. I'm not calling him evil, I'm just saying that he lied. He started saying that he had no idea who they were, and then later admitted that not only were they former employees of him, but he helped them apply for their business license. I can not account for any amount of stupidity or incompetence that explains this fundamental anomaly other than "he lied."

In the crokinole thread, his explination for why the board was being shipped to the third person in the chain is fine, shipping labels and PDFs got mixed up. He even went out of his way to talk about how an unfortunately series of events resulted in this mix up. Even if I choose to accept that at face value, it does not address how the original shipment of a faulty board to a new board customer occurred. Did this series of mixups happen twice? To be clear, customer (A) complained that he had a faulty board, and was told to ship it to customer (B). (B) then complains about having a faulty board, and was told to ship it to customer (C), but then researches things. Seth has explained why (B) was asked to ship to (C) and how this was a mistake, but he has not explained why (A) shipped the reported faulty board to (B).

Since Hanlon's razor has been thrown around a bit, let's look at Occam's razor. Is it a simpler explanation that this sequence of unfortunate events resulting in a 1 out of 100 mistake happened twice in a row on the same board, or that Seth was comfortable sending the boards along to new customers until he found one that accepted it as is. I feel like that second explanation is simpler and more likely to be true, especially since I just got finished reading about him lying and then backtracking in the empiregames thread.

A lot of these other complaints amount to shipping delays, slight quality issues and general miscommunications that don't really upset me that much, but the two above issues lead me to believe that Seth is a man that is comfortable lying to his customers when it suits him.

I think that his sleeves and tokens are valuable and fun additions to the board gaming community, they serve a need at a price point that is great. Even his crokinole boards are fine, once you know what you are getting. I don't think Seth is "evil," I just find his practices themselves to be distasteful, and will avoid business with him in the future.
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Richard Keiser

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eBay, a company who rarely bans a seller unless their fraud & controls department makes an investigation, gives the seller opportunities to correct their past errors. and then has to reinvestigate and find the seller guilty of the same offense at least three or four times, booted Seth and his company back in 2008. The grounds for this banning are unclear, but the fact is that a legitimate company did their research, made a sound decision based on the seller's business activities, and decided to stop business relations with Mr. Hiatt.

Approaches and tendencies, either positive or negative, are fairly consistent unless someone has a revelation moment. By all the research and consumer feedback on BGG and BBB, it appears that Mr. Hiatt is still playing from the same deck of strategy cards, so I don't really think he has changed all that much.

And it is never the mistakes that gets you in trouble, its the cover-up and the handling of the issue post-facto. I have never seen a business owner spin and comment so much on their mistakes, rather than just changing, delivering on their promise, and keeping silent.

Maybe China is a land of new opportunities for Mr. Hiatt and his family? I do hope that he gets his act together, but that will only be proven by actions, not retorts, rhetoric, and defenses written in BGG posts.

Less mistakes. Less defenses and prostrations of CS. More consistent delivery of high quality products, services, and approach.

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Pete Hooper
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maydaygames wrote:
Look at the "complaints" on the business there the 4 of them that are there are from 2009. This is because we changed of our business when we went from an online reseller of other people's games to Mayday Games, Inc.

We are talking to the BBB about this to get our actual company listed since Hiatt & Hiatt hasn't existed in a couple of years and all of the contact info (address/phone/email) has long since stopped working for that business.

I don't know how the "AKA Mayday Games" got on there but we'll get it fixed as soon as the BBB replies to us.


I've never done business with you. However, to dismiss the importance of the BBB listing because your old company no longer exists is a mistake. You are going to be judged on your past conduct as well as your future conduct.

I've recently found myself the owner of a bunch of card games, and they need sleeves. I'll be honest, you guys have great prices. Having said that, it seems you've had a lot of problems. Though it appears that in many instances (involving sleeves in particular) you have endeavored to make things right, the fact is that most of the positive threads you point to are situations where the problem was eventually fixed, instead of being right the first time.

Maybe I'll be viewed as naive, but I wonder if you bothered to think through the repercussions of making the deal with Deniath, or maybe you were just happy to be making a few extra bucks. I don't know. There are very few people in this world that I think are truly irredeemable. My advice to you, Seth, would be to do everything you can to make sure that shipments, etc. are right the first time, and take time to really examine the consequences of your decisions and actions.

I don't have any kind of axe to grind, nor do I have any feelings about you one way or the other. I hope you see this as the constructive criticism I intend it to be.
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J.L. Robert
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darthhugo wrote:
Good to hear your terms. Now, with that in mind, I have an offer...

I will sell you ten (10x) Mint, in shrink, copies of Avalon Hill's The Longest Day. All you need to do is send me a mere $500 (in cash). My business promises to ship them out immediately upon receipt of your monies.

I look forward to a long, and prosperous, business relationship with you.

J.L.Robert wrote:
Hugh_G_Rection wrote:
J.L.Robert wrote:
Nah. I don't want to see Mayday burnt to the ground.

It would be nice to see them IMPROVE, however.


How many years would you say is enough time to improve?


As many as it takes him to clean up the act and win back my trust. I might then consider buying from Mayday (if they ever carry a product I'm truly interested in).

Who sets the limit on the number of errors one gets to make in a lifetime?
 
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