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Subject: Longevity of this system? rss

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Zak
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Summoner wars is my first 10/10 game, but I have this paradoxical fear that because the game is so well supported with new stuff every few months, it's going to die out as soon as the expansion armies stop flowing in. With 16 or so different races out now, there has to be a limit to the amount of new content PHG can inject into this system before they need to change their focus to other products. I've heavily bought into the system, so what is the consensus opinion: will people still be playing summoner wars in 5 years and beyond? Even if there are no more new expansions coming out? Will PHG have to go Magic:TG style on us and eventually make older sets obsolete to keep the game balanced?

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Steven Wyman
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do people still play M'44 or Battlelore?
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Kevin J
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Well it depends on your definition of "die out". Chess hasn't had an expansion in quite some time, and I hear there are still people playing that! There are still Heroscape tournaments being held, and it is an officially dead game.

This game certainly can't be solved, and the sheer number of matchups means that, for all intents and purposes, the game will never become boring with the 16 factions and reinforcements out now. Add on another 16 summoners that are on their way, and the game has enough of a backlog to maintain competitive play for a long, long time.
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Jeremy Yoder
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I only know I'll be playing it 5 years from now.

Not only are there 16 base factions, but there will be a new summoner, commons, and champs for each of those factions. While that doubles the number of units and "base decks," it creates a ton more pairings to play. And then you add all the customizing within factions, and add to that all the mercs mix in... yes, it will have longevity.

Of course, one can always burn out on something, such as general game mechanics. However, if it takes you 500-1000 games for that to happen, then it seems like a very worthwhile investment. I estimate I've played about 500 games and I'm still loving it -- very solid 10 for me.

Honestly, I see a huge difference between MTG and SW. With MTG, the "fun" and choices are far more in deck creation rather than playing. Because when you play a MTG deck, there's not a ton of choices you have with your card draw. I think that's why you get the MTG crack heads who must buy more cards, because deck creation is the only real way you get variety and choices.

However, with SW, you can play 2 base factions against each other multiple times, and each game feels and plays out different because you have so many choices, both in how to play a card, and then if played on the board, how to move and use it spatially. And, of course, the dice add that unknown element. And since customizing a deck can take only 5 minutes, it allows far more actual play time, which is where the fun should be, IMHO.

Just my two cents.
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Paul DeStefano
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Does anyone still play chess?
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Josh Edwards
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tatoolo wrote:
Chess hasn't had an expansion in quite some time


I know, it's been over a decade since Knightmare Chess 2 came out, and that's the last expansion I know of for it...
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Colby Dauch
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I'm not going to randomly decide I need to shift focus to something else and stop supporting Summoner Wars. As long as enough of you keep buying Summoner Wars I'll keep making it. Very little of my time on Summoner Wars is spent in design and the rest of the work can be hired out with enough success. So there is still plenty of room for me to keep doing more projects while still doing Summoner Wars. The app comes out soon, so I'm believing the best is still yet to come (as I believe the free to try app is going to give us mountains of exposure)and you all are the early adopters.
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Trent Hamm
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screamingtruth wrote:
I'm not going to randomly decide I need to shift focus to something else and stop supporting Summoner Wars. As long as enough of you keep buying Summoner Wars I'll keep making it. Very little of my time on Summoner Wars is spent in design and the rest of the work can be hired out with enough success. So there is still plenty of room for me to keep doing more projects while still doing Summoner Wars. The app comes out soon, so I'm believing the best is still yet to come (as I believe the free to try app is going to give us mountains of exposure)and you all are the early adopters.


If the app is half as good as the Ascension app (and I believe they're by the same developer), I'm going to be all over it like a cat in a catnip field. I sometimes strain a bit to find opponents in real life for SW, but I love to play the game.
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fightcitymayor
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JYoder wrote:
Not only are there 16 base factions...
SIXTEEN?!?! I remember when there were only FOUR.
You damnable whippersnappers, with your Cloaks, and your Filths, and your better card art.


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Cory Bullock
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fightcitymayor wrote:
JYoder wrote:
Not only are there 16 base factions...
SIXTEEN?!?! I remember when there were only FOUR.
You damnable whippersnappers, with your Cloaks, and your Filths, and your better card art.




I remember when adding Khan Queso was the pinnacle of deck building.
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Zak
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Some good discussion so far. I think some people may have misunderstood my original post. I wasn't implying that 16 races was not good enough to keep me interested. So far I haven't even tried all the races I own yet. As far as I'm concerned, I'd be happy even if this was all that ever came out. Maybe to put it another way:

I've been a board gamer for about 6 years, and a consistent observation is that gamers love new stuff. While there are exceptions (I don't think chess is a very good comparison btw) I've seen a lot of great games collect dust because something newer comes out. Hell, there are regular geeklists on this site devoted to "why X has replaced Y". I'm quite sure Colby won't randomly stop supporting the system, especially so long as it remains popular, but is there a limit to how many races/add-ons can be done? Maybe not, but the number of possible combinations increases exponentially with each additional release of new cards, presumably making it harder and harder to playtest. Magic:TG gets around this by saying cards older than X years are no longer allowed in competitive play. So far the game is incredibly well balanced (one of the reasons I like it so much), but I'm just wondering how long that can continue. I hope it keeps going as long as possible, but I'm just throwing this out there.

Cheers,

Zak
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Zak
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tatoolo wrote:
Add on another 16 summoners that are on their way, and the game has enough of a backlog to maintain competitive play for a long, long time.


Wait, what?? That's amazing. I suppose that partially answers my questions about how much further they can go. Do you mean 16 brand new races or just 16 "alternate" summoners for the existing races?

Zak
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Joseph Ellis
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New summoners for old races. (And they'll come with their own unique commons and champs that can be switched between summoners, too.)
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screamingtruth wrote:
I'm not going to randomly decide I need to shift focus to something else and stop supporting Summoner Wars. As long as enough of you keep buying Summoner Wars I'll keep making it. Very little of my time on Summoner Wars is spent in design and the rest of the work can be hired out with enough success. So there is still plenty of room for me to keep doing more projects while still doing Summoner Wars. The app comes out soon, so I'm believing the best is still yet to come (as I believe the free to try app is going to give us mountains of exposure)and you all are the early adopters.


Since you brought it up, is soon like in the next month, or is it like the Dominion app "soon"?
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Kevin J
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I can totally see where you're coming from...there are plenty of games that might have seen lots of play when first released, but don't get played as much because there is no hype or active discussion on the forums. That said, there are classics like El Grande and Acquire which are still recommended regularly because they do what they do so well and have stood the test of time. I think Summoner Wars will join them, since it does what it does so well.

Also, just because a game isn't being discussed online as much as when it first came out doesn't mean people aren't playing it; I'm sure every group finds some perennial favorites that they'll play for years on end, regardless of new games that come out.
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fightcitymayor
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darkbladecb wrote:
I remember when adding Khan Queso was the pinnacle of deck building.
AND WE WERE HAPPY TO HAVE HIM!
"Hmm... where should I put this rat?
How about THIS deck.
OKAY, I'M DONE DECKBUILDING, LET'S PLAY!"

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Caleb
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For me personally, I expect the game to get occasional play for now, but when my son is old enough, to take off. He's already really interested in the cards and rolling the dice, but at 3 he has no true understanding of the game. 3 or 4 more years, though, and I expect this to get regular play with him.

I don't know if I'll buy secondary summoners/armies for each faction, but having a complete set of the 16 original decks plus reinforcements is my current goal.
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(The Majestic Tale of) An Idiot With a Box
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I'll just put this over here with the rest of the fire.
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I can see the possibility of having "enough" of buying more, but Colby has managed to keep the design quality very even so far. There has been no power creep or filler sets at all. If I ever get the impression that sets are being spit out simply to squeeze the fan base for a few more bucks and quality be damned, then I'll stop buying.

That's not something I see happening. Add to that how affordable the expansions are ($10 gets you a new army and dozens of new combinations) and I'm on the hook for the foreseeable future.
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Chad Ries
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I still play chess and have occasionally since 1976.

I still play Magic the Gathering and have consistently since 1993.

I do play Summoner Wars and have as much as able since 2009 and will continue to long into my dotage.

I own all the Summoner Wars cards published so far and am waiting patiently for the next 16 Summoners and their entourages.

I am waiting impatiently for the Summoner Wars iOS app.

I am a Doug to the end!
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Greg Wajda
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New Summoners+Mercs/Custom Deck Building will keep it fresh pretty much forever. Also, it is helpful for people to think of the game not as other card games where you have a main race or deck, but rather, like most tournaments for SW, you have to be proficient at four or five or even more races/factions to succeed. There has been no info on this yet but there isn't any reason why they couldn't eventually create new types of units other then Champions and Commons.
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Johan Haglert
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tatoolo wrote:
Well it depends on your definition of "die out". Chess hasn't had an expansion in quite some time, and I hear there are still people playing that! There are still Heroscape tournaments being held, and it is an officially dead game.

This game certainly can't be solved, and the sheer number of matchups means that, for all intents and purposes, the game will never become boring with the 16 factions and reinforcements out now. Add on another 16 summoners that are on their way, and the game has enough of a backlog to maintain competitive play for a long, long time.
There will be 32?
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Johan Haglert
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joepinion wrote:
New summoners for old races. (And they'll come with their own unique commons and champs that can be switched between summoners, too.)
So still same races? I want variation but some of the items (basic starter sets and the reinforcement packs (well of course the master set is even more extreme here)) force me to buy factions I may not want and I don't really like that and I don't think I want to buy something like 32 decks of SW. It's ok with more factions since not all seem that great and I'd rather pick a few I like but as it's now I may be somewhat forced to get also crap and that limit my ability to take advantage of new factions.

Or one just ignore all the starter sets and get some other health tokens, dice and make ones own board and buy what one want. Doesn't solve some of the stupid decks though.
 
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Johan Haglert
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JYoder wrote:
Honestly, I see a huge difference between MTG and SW. With MTG, the "fun" and choices are far more in deck creation rather than playing. Because when you play a MTG deck, there's not a ton of choices you have with your card draw. I think that's why you get the MTG crack heads who must buy more cards, because deck creation is the only real way you get variety and choices.

However, with SW, you can play 2 base factions against each other multiple times, and each game feels and plays out different because you have so many choices, both in how to play a card, and then if played on the board, how to move and use it spatially. And, of course, the dice add that unknown element. And since customizing a deck can take only 5 minutes, it allows far more actual play time, which is where the fun should be, IMHO.
SW sure seems like way better than MTG.

Better system + better delivery method.
 
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Wind Lane
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aliquis wrote:
tatoolo wrote:
Well it depends on your definition of "die out". Chess hasn't had an expansion in quite some time, and I hear there are still people playing that! There are still Heroscape tournaments being held, and it is an officially dead game.

This game certainly can't be solved, and the sheer number of matchups means that, for all intents and purposes, the game will never become boring with the 16 factions and reinforcements out now. Add on another 16 summoners that are on their way, and the game has enough of a backlog to maintain competitive play for a long, long time.
There will be 32?


32 summoners, yes - 32 factions, no.

It's still just the 16 factions, but a 2nd summoner is in the works for each.
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Johan Haglert
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Wind Lane wrote:
aliquis wrote:
tatoolo wrote:
Well it depends on your definition of "die out". Chess hasn't had an expansion in quite some time, and I hear there are still people playing that! There are still Heroscape tournaments being held, and it is an officially dead game.

This game certainly can't be solved, and the sheer number of matchups means that, for all intents and purposes, the game will never become boring with the 16 factions and reinforcements out now. Add on another 16 summoners that are on their way, and the game has enough of a backlog to maintain competitive play for a long, long time.
There will be 32?


32 summoners, yes - 32 factions, no.

It's still just the 16 factions, but a 2nd summoner is in the works for each.
Not at a price of 16 more decks? Dual-packs like the reinforcements?

I've seen there's like three or so of those "move 7 spaces in a straight line characters", I think it's slightly cooler with unique abilities, like if only the jungle elves had that. I hope they don't make them all too similar just to make them more balanced / comparable because 16 factions with the same kind of units would be rather useless.. , then it's all looks ..

What was Clydes user name again? =P

Even better if it was four in each pack, as far as price went, or maybe like one "summoner reinforcement pack" with all of them =P
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