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Subject: CGF OFFICIAL : Glory to Rome Black Box Status Discussion Thread rss

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Jeremiah Lee
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This is the discussion thread for the Glory to Rome : Black Box - Maximum Updates List.

ADDRESS UPDATES - I get about 15 a day (you guys move a lot)! I will get to them, even if I don't respond. Feel free to send a geekmail, or an email through the Kickstarter system.

I will try to keep up with answering questions, but I expect I won't be able to. My full-time job is being a father. My four children are 7, 6, 4, and 2 years old. We're an unschooling family, so the kids are with me each day.

I'll get word out to you when things happen, on the Max-Update List. This discussion list is likely to be very busy, but the Max-Update List is going to be updates only (I'll be the only poster).
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Jeremiah_Lee wrote:
We're an unschooling family, so the kids are with me each day.


Immediate thread derail fodder devil
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mateenyweeny
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Ha. That definitely stood out for me too.
 
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Zaphod Beeblebrox
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darthnice wrote:
Jeremiah_Lee wrote:
We're an unschooling family, so the kids are with me each day.


Immediate thread derail fodder devil

What better way to reduce the number of people asking for updates about the Black Box?

Actually, that's a pretty good strategy. I may try that the next time I need to muddy the waters when I'm unprepared to make a presentation at work. "Before I go into the financials, I'd like to mention that that I support the Obamacare health insurance mandate. Moving along..."
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Jeremiah Lee
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nbread wrote:
darthnice wrote:
Jeremiah_Lee wrote:
We're an unschooling family, so the kids are with me each day.


Immediate thread derail fodder devil

What better way to reduce the number of people asking for updates about the Black Box?

Actually, that's a pretty good strategy. I may try that the next time I need to muddy the waters when I'm unprepared to make a presentation at work. "Before I go into the financials, I'd like to mention that that I support the Obamacare health insurance mandate. Moving along..."
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chearns
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Jeremiah,

I think unschooling sounds nifty. I'm glad I came to this thread just to hear about that.

As for GtR, I, one of the backers, have only one concern, and it isn't when (I am patient), but how. As a backer living in Canada, I have a preference for USPS over UPS.

USPS will deliver through Canada Post and if I'm not home when it arrives, I can pick it up later the same day five minutes from my home.

UPS, on the other hand, if I'm not home when it arrives, will mean a travel time of an hour and a half to go and pick it up (and then another hour and a half to get home again), and will also mean that they will charge me an additional amount for the shipping on top of whatever they charge you for the shipping.

I hate brown.
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mateenyweeny
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^I'm with him

Although I think that mine is still scheduled to go to a FLGS. Is that still happening?
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nbread wrote:
Actually, that's a pretty good strategy. I may try that the next time I need to muddy the waters when I'm unprepared to make a presentation at work. "Before I go into the financials, I'd like to mention that that I support the Obamacare health insurance mandate. Moving along..."


Flog me if I ever forget how funny that was
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Jeremiah Lee
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I don't actually know (right now) what the shipping arrangements are, though I know we've mainly used USPS in the past before. I'll send a note to our operations manager, and let them know that Canadians desire USPS.

Glad you guys are checking out the unschooling link, and finding it interesting.

Right now my unschooling kids and I are getting ready to read some old Spider-Man comics.
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Martin Gallo
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Jeremiah_Lee wrote:
Right now my unschooling kids and I are getting ready to read some old Spider-Man comics.
It might be a good idea that you are reading it to them, since nobody is teaching them to read or count (so they are read in order).devil

By the way, thanks for keeping us up to date on the progress of the game. One thing that always seems to happen is a delay between the official date and the actual date that a game starts shipping (most of these seem to be due to printer errors/issues - how do those printers stay in business?) and I hope nothing drastic holds up this re-issue of GtR.
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Chris Montgomery
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Jeremiah_Lee wrote:
I don't actually know (right now) what the shipping arrangements are, though I know we've mainly used USPS in the past before. I'll send a note to our operations manager, and let them know that Canadians desire USPS.

Glad you guys are checking out the unschooling link, and finding it interesting.

Right now my unschooling kids and I are getting ready to read some old Spider-Man comics.


Yeah USPS. FedEX/UPS/DHL can be really spotty.
 
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Jason King
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I'm really excited to see this discussion thread. I'm a backer and I live in TN. I am concerned with the shipping-to-game-store model, neither of the game stores I contacted in Murfreesboro were interested in receiving delivery for me (strange, eh?) and were basically unwilling to discuss it. I wrote an e-mail through Kickstarter asking what would be necessary to have it shipped directly to my home address, but I never received a reply. I sent it before the "catastrophe" update, so maybe my e-mail was lost in a deluge of backlogged work?

Additionally, as the date slips further and further back, there is a chance that I will be moving. I will remain in my current place of residence until August, but what would happen if there were a further delay? Is there a way to update shipping information.

I'm really looking forward to playing the game, as is the rest of my gaming group!meeple
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Sean Westberg
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So wait... the game hasn't left China yet? Didn't the last update say that the factory was in the final stages and nearly ready for the boat?

So my "Late May into June" time frame was overly optimistic. I forgot to add "sit on the games in China for a month" into my timeframe. July or August is now my overly optimistic time frame.

I feel for the advanced order people. A month ago you were told that they'd be bringing back the copies within a week soon and you probably figured they'd be sent out by now. CGL apparently decided that it wasn't important enough to let you know that wasn't going to happen.

No offense, but I'm done with CGL updates. It seems there's little veracity to them, so I won't contribute to the pressure on them to say things are farther along than they really are. I'll get the damn game when I get the damn game.

Edit: I went back and read the update and amended some of my choices of words.
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Asa Swain
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Put me under the category of: "You should just sent more kickstarter updates instead of making us jump through even more hoops to keep track of the game". When a game is this late, more updates are better than fewer. After the ruckus about the lack of updates a few months ago, I'd expect you to err on the side of more updates, instead of assuming we don't want to be kept in the loop.
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Andrew Brannan
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quartex wrote:
Put me under the category of: "You should just sent more kickstarter updates instead of making us jump through even more hoops to keep track of the game". When a game is this late, more updates are better than fewer. After the ruckus about the lack of updates a few months ago, I'd expect you to err on the side of more updates, instead of assuming we don't want to be kept in the loop.


Yes, except that some people then turned around and complained that there were too many Kickstarter updates. Of course, what I think they really meant was that there was little substance to the updates, which they found aggravating. The compromise was that there would be a geeklist with the frequent updates, which then spawned this discussion thread to prevent the geeklist from becoming too cluttered.

In the end, I think something akin to the Domino's Pizza Tracker is what people want. On the GtR:BB Kickstarter page, a graphic depicting the process of events that have to occur before the game is in our grubby little hands, with expected dates next to each step, and a progress bar showing where those items are. Then possibly a little note at the bottom explaining the most recent shifts to those anticipated dates, like "Lunar New Year holiday, factory closed for one week" I think something with that level of transparency would satisfy a lot of people, and making it a pull notification (i.e. customer driven updates) rather than a push notification (CGF mass-email update) would allow everybody to update at their preferred intervals.
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Chris Montgomery
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TheFlatline wrote:

I feel for the advanced order people. A month ago you were told that they'd be bringing back the copies within a week soon and you probably figured they'd be sent out by now. CGL apparently decided that it wasn't important enough to let you know that wasn't going to happen.


It's one thing to not bring up an update, it's another to ignore an inquiring email/geekmail/kickstarter message. I sent it to both Jeremiah and Ed.

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Joseph Cochran
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TheFlatline wrote:
So wait... the game hasn't left China yet? Didn't the last update say that the factory was in the final stages and nearly ready for the boat?

So my "Late May into June" time frame was overly optimistic. I forgot to add "sit on the games in China for a month" into my timeframe. July or August is now my overly optimistic time frame.


Remember how we could choose to pick them up at Essen or BGG.CON? That still might be true. soblue
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Steven Metzger
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My FLGS also hasn't heard anything from you guys (but if the boat hasn't left yet...)

I did start that thread asking for an update because I wanted to see updates every 14-17 days, even if it's an update saying "Nothing's changed, we're still waiting on the printers and they're teasing us in Mandarin so it's hard to translate their insults."

I'm still patient. The Eminent Domain experience (which I did not back, but our group has several copies) with Kickstarter kinda requires that from level-headed consumers. Not everything is going to be perfect, especially with production done in China and timeframes that really shouldn't be promised/proposed in the first place.

I think I understand, too, because I constantly deal with people saying "when is this going to happen? when is that going to happen?" My bosses make some fairly moderate projections/promises to our consumers, and I have to go and tell them "well, no, since we blew past our original projection date we're not setting a timeframe." And I get paid a decent hourly rate to say those things...CGF people are doing a lot of this in their spare time.

Long story short, I want updates but I don't expect them to be long. Even a one-sentence update that says "In the middle of the Pacific" would be reasonable
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Brenden Johnson
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My FLGS has moved since the Kickstarter happened (in fact they moved last weekend) I hope that kind of thing can be taken into account.
 
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metzgerism wrote:
Long story short, I want updates but I don't expect them to be long. Even a one-sentence update that says "In the middle of the Pacific" would be reasonable


At the same time, bad news is still important so as to not make people even more upset when it comes to light. Case in point: We'll be putting Advance Shipping BBs on the plane with CGF employees in a couple weeks and we'll promise you updates every 2 weeks. 4 weeks go by with people start to wonder then in a random thread somebody mentions that only Ed went to China and he didn't have the luggage capacity to bring any back. Then the update overload thread gets started and doesn't mention this. That is news worth posting.

In regards to many things, "no news is good news" but it seems that with Kickstarter, "no news means we did something embarrassing."

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I do find it a bit odd that I can order the new promos at the Geekstore before I got them with my Black Box edition. It doesn't seem right that they hit there first before the Kickstarter supporters.
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I have no issue with the I.V. Republic and Promo cards being available on the Geek Store before being shipped out to Kickstarters. I assume that those cards will be included in the Black Box shipments. Bundling them into one shipment per backer will be less work and lower shipping costs for CGF rather than sending them out as two shipments. However, I agree that a couple of simple statements from CGF about that fact would be useful. There may be some people who will feel slighted by this(which would be their right), but most people will be OK with it.
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Skippen,

As a kickstarter backer, it does not bother me at all that people cam have access to the bonus cards before me. Without the actual game the bonus cards wouldn't do me any good, and why should I want to deny something to others when it won't impact when I get my copy?
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Nick King
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cscottk wrote:
I do find it a bit odd that I can order the new promos at the Geekstore before I got them with my Black Box edition. It doesn't seem right that they hit there first before the Kickstarter supporters.


I might be mistaken, but I think they posted awhile back that the old style expansion cards were printed with a run of some other game, which is why they are available a bit earlier.
 
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Jeremiah Lee
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Lacota wrote:
TheFlatline wrote:

I feel for the advanced order people. A month ago you were told that they'd be bringing back the copies within a week soon and you probably figured they'd be sent out by now. CGL apparently decided that it wasn't important enough to let you know that wasn't going to happen.


It's one thing to not bring up an update, it's another to ignore an inquiring email/geekmail/kickstarter message. I sent it to both Jeremiah and Ed.

Chris, you're important to me, personally. You've been with ZimP since the very early days (ZimP turns 5 years old this November!), and you're involvement in BGG and especially the PnP community has made your name something that stands out to me.

I feel bad that I'm unable to get to all of the emails that I receive regarding the GtR:BB. I'm the one responding. Ed is in a consulting job that requires more hours a week than anyone should have to put in, so any extra time he has goes into actually getting the game to excited gamers. I'm the one responding to emails, and I try to get to them.

However, my full-time job is being a dad to my four children, and I'm never going to have enough computer time to respond to all of the emails, comments, messages, forum posts, and such that I get. I want to, but I can't take that much time away from my family.

It would be great if CGF could hire someone to do this full time, but we're a small company, and we're almost completely volunteers. We work hard, and we're getting this done.

I hope you don't think I'm ignoring your emails. I'm not, I'm getting to them, hopefully all of them.

You, Chris, and you, every Kickstarter supporter, are important to us. You are our friends, our brothers-and-sisters-in-gaming, our partners, our buddies, our across-the-table-opponents, our supporters, and our customers. We're doing this because we love games, and we want to play these games with you.
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