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Subject: Cellar Option rss

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vultus prime
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The Cellar gives you 2 things: a) +1 Action, b) the ability to discard any number of cards in your hand and draw an equal number (why couldn't they simply write this on the card instead of using that +1card explanation)
Anyway, If I decide to play the Cellar only because of the +1 action and do not want to discard any cards in my hand, that's legal right?
Cellar seems to be the only card (in the base game) that gives you this option, at least this is how I see it.
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David Goldfarb
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Yes, you may discard zero cards. This is usually exactly the same as not playing the Cellar at all, of course.
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vultus prime
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David Goldfarb wrote:
Yes, you may discard zero cards. This is usually exactly the same as not playing the Cellar at all, of course.


yes but by not playing cellar you don't get the +1 Action, which in some cases is all you want if you don't fell the need to discard any cards.
 
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Mik Svellov
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Spending an action to gain action is just an excuse to annoy your fellow players...

You have one action, with which you can play any one action card in your hand.
If you don't want to discard/draw any cards with Cellar, you will not be able to do anything you couldn't have done without playing the Cellar in the first place!
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Jack Rudd
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vultusprime wrote:

Cellar seems to be the only card (in the base game) that gives you this option, at least this is how I see it.


Chapel has the same option: that of using it to trash 0 cards. This is usually even less productive than using a Cellar to discard 0 cards.
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vultus prime
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I can decide to stop the "Action" phase and enter the "buy" phase even if I still had more actions and kingdom cards available. In the rules this option is not really clear.
 
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Ido Abelman
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Hod Hasharon
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It's seems that you think that playing cellar makes you gain more actions than you started with. It's not true. If you have 1 action and then you play cellar, you spend 1 action and then gain 1 action, returning you to the initial 1 action.
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piotr s
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if you have library, conspirator or peddler it make sense
spend action to +1 action don't have sense until you don't get income like less card in hand
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piotr s
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vultusprime wrote:
I can decide to stop the "Action" phase and enter the "buy" phase even if I still had more actions and kingdom cards available. In the rules this option is not really clear.

yes
 
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vultus prime
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no, I understand the meaning of +1 action and I see that to play a cellar without discarding any cards may seem pointless, but my question is about what I must do vs decide to do. Just as I said in my previous post:

Quote:
I can decide to stop the "Action" phase and enter the "buy" phase even if I still had more actions and kingdom cards available. In the rules this option is not really clear.


This is correct, I have the ability to decide, I'm not forced to continue if I don't want and therefore I can play cellar only for the extra action (yes, maybe even to annoy my fellow players)

Am I wrong?
 
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David Goldfarb
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No, you're not wrong. If you have a Library in hand it could make sense to do this (which is why I said "usually" above).
 
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piotr s
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no, all is correct
only moment when you must play a action is when you play throne room
 
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vultus prime
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Thank you very much, that answers my question.
 
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Jack Rudd
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piotrsmu wrote:
no, all is correct
only moment when you must play a action is when you play throne room


Or Golem, but that card is not in the base set.
 
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Jann Beckers
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piotrsmu wrote:
if you have library, conspirator or peddler it make sense
spend action to +1 action don't have sense until you don't get income like less card in hand


Indeed, as Piotr said, sometimes it makes sense. Play for example 4 cellars in a row and you have a free Peddler.

Or play a cellar so that you can draw one more card with the library, which hopefully will give you treasure to buy something.

This is what I like about Dominion: I very often think during a game: why the heck would anybody want to do THAT? And then at some point I get an "aha-erlebeniss". OK, so THAT's why.

Great, isn't it?
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Tables
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vultusprime wrote:
The Cellar gives you 2 things: a) +1 Action, b) the ability to discard any number of cards in your hand and draw an equal number (why couldn't they simply write this on the card instead of using that +1card explanation)


Because the current wording is clearer, shorter and leaves no potential for ambiguity. Why would you want to use a less clear and longer wording?
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Mark Judd
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Great Dane wrote:
Spending an action to gain action is just an excuse to annoy your fellow players...

You have one action, with which you can play any one action card in your hand.
If you don't want to discard/draw any cards with Cellar, you will not be able to do anything you couldn't have done without playing the Cellar in the first place!

This is SOOOO not true!!!

piotrsmu wrote:
if you have library, conspirator or peddler it make sense
spend action to +1 action don't have sense until you don't get income like less card in hand

YES!

Other cards that might make it desirable to play Cellar without discarding just to get it out of your hand:

Masquerade - maybe you have no cards left in your deck/discard pile, only Cellar and Masquerade in your hand, and you want to force your opponent to give you a card without giving them one back

Shanty Town - keeping Cellar in your hand would prevent you from drawing +2 Cards

Steward - maybe Cellar and Steward are two of three cards remaining in your hand and you want to trash the other but not Cellar

Trading Post - maybe Cellar and Trading Post are two of three cards remaining in your hand, you want to trash the other but not Cellar and don't want a Silver

Island - maybe Cellar and Island are the only two cards left in your hand and you want to set aside Island but not Cellar

Salvager - maybe Cellar and Salvager are the only two cards left in your hand and you want the extra buy but don't want to trash Cellar

Trade Route - maybe Cellar and Trade Route are the only two cards left in your hand and you want the extra buy and $ but don't want to trash Cellar

Watchtower - same as Library

Bishop - maybe Cellar and Bishop are the only two cards left in your hand and you want the +1 VP but don't want to trash Cellar

Menagerie - maybe the only duplicates in your hand are Cellars and you want the +3 Cards from Menagerie

Remake - maybe Cellar and Remake are two of three cards remaining in your hand and you want to trash the other but not Cellar

Horn of Plenty - you might not have any cards you want to discard, but want to boost the value of the potential card gained by Horn of Plenty

Scheme - you might not have any cards you want to discard, but want to be able to return Cellar to the top of your deck to be drawn for your next hand

Jack of All Trades - same as Library

Mandarin - maybe Cellar and Mandarin are the only two cards left in your hand and you want to play Mandarin but don't want to return Cellar to the top of your deck

Farmland - maybe Cellar and Treasure cards are all that are left in your hand and you want to but Farmland but don't want to trash anything


Also, you might be about to trigger a reshuffle of your deck mid-turn and just don't want Cellar to be in your deck for that reshuffle.
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Dave Green
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I'm with Mark on this one. There may not be very many cases where your best move is to play a Cellar without discarding anything, but demonstrably there are at least a few.
 
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Dennison Milenkaya
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Nearly a score of cards that would make it of occasional worth is certainly more than a few. I'm with Mark, too. I was reading this thread thinking "No-one's come up with X or Y reason yet?" And bam! all at once.
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Mark Englehart
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And no one even mentioned that Throne Room/King's Court can turn the Cellar into an Action Accelerator (useful if there are no Villages in your Supply).
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Dennison Milenkaya
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This is true. Of course, they can do that without Cellar, too, but sometimes, it is the only thing in your hand that will. Add it to the list!
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Vlad Plushchevsky
Ukraine
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I may be wrong, but in case Cellar is in play (in your tableau), then the cards properties (namely Cellar)must be played at maximum. So, in case you play Cellar as not the last in your hand, you should discard smth and take the equivalent from the deck.
 
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Sverre
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vldplusch wrote:
I may be wrong, but in case Cellar is in play (in your tableau), then the cards properties (namely Cellar)must be played at maximum. So, in case you play Cellar as not the last in your hand, you should discard smth and take the equivalent from the deck.


This doesn`t make any sense to me.

What do you mean by "played at maximum"? You are always able to discard 0 cards, if you want to.
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Vlad Plushchevsky
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I mean, that in case you have 5 cards in hand and play Cellar first, you must DISCARD any certain number of cards, and it cannot be zero, because you have the possibility to discard more.
 
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Vlad Plushchevsky
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http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Complete_and_All-Enco...

Item 10.2
 
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