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Well then, if all the Goa reprint talk over the years had happened outside of the Goa forums, then I'd be more amenable to BGG policy. The game forums are as much a place to discuss potential future vaporware as it is about projects that have been advertised on crowd-publishing websites like Kickstarter.

As far as I can tell, the mere mention of a game with some minimal descriptive information is enough for a game to be included in the BGG database (I agree with this stance btw). I don't see the harm in posting in that a thread in that specific game's forum about a potential way to get the game published. In fact, I think it is stupid to limit the thread to a completely different section of the website which has nothing to do with the game. It is more interesting to have the discussion about the potential physicall mass production of that specific game in that specific game's forum. Whether it succeeds or not, that thread is a historical record of what has gone on with that game, and something that will be of interest for people interested in that game. Eventually there may be more interesting things written and discussed about that game, and if so then the kickstarter thread will be buried on the back page...and if not, well it still makes sense to have the thread listed as part of the game's database entry.

Thanks for clarifying the situation as you think the admins sees it, but it just reinforces my opinion that they make very little sense. I generally agree with the way they run things around here, but one thing I've learned is that one should not expect BGG admin policy to be horribly self-consistent...that usually is the path to madness and unnecessary aggravation.
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Scott Alden
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You can pretty much blame me for the Kickstarter policy of moving threads. While I adore Kickstarter/Crowdsourcing and the huge increase of projects that stem from it - I don't want the BoardGameGeek forums to become a spamfest for updates.

I think we have come up with some very generous methods of promoting Kickstarter projects here on BGG, and we now tracking pre-order links in the versions database. We offer special advertising for Kickstarter to have their widgets displayed on the game page, and we also prominently feature those links on the page. Another feature that has been recently added to GoneCardboard allows you to filter on all current projects (Announcement here)

We aren't trying to stifle discussion about games. If you have rules questions, or other concerns regarding the game - the game page is the right place to post.
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Aldie wrote:
You can pretty much blame me for the Kickstarter policy of moving threads. While I adore Kickstarter/Crowdsourcing and the huge increase of projects that stem from it - I don't want the BoardGameGeek forums to become a spamfest for updates.


I still voice my discontent with your approach. I agree this past year the Kickstarter fad had threatened flooding BGG with all the kickstarter news. So I agree with the desire to restrict Kickstarter talk on BGG, but completely cutting of Kickstarter talk in the specific game's forum is overkill. I think one single thread in the specific game's forum - which could also be the repository for all the kickstarter updates - would be a much more reasonable restriction. The fact that a kickstarter project was started / completed / failed is something is noteworthy and worth having in a game's forum if someone cares enough to posted about it.

For me, I find the gone cardboard freature useless for me, I don't chase down new games per se...but I do care if any of the games I'm interested in are coming out in a new version or reprint. So from my perspective I would miss out on news of a project concerning one of "my games" if you keep the kickstarter project completely out of the specific game forum and just limit it to these other avenues.

I totally understand how you might want to limit too many threads on vaporware and potential publishing projects, but until you start doing that with Goa reprints and Glory to Rome Black box, I have to say it your inclination has been applied inconsistently. Why pick on the unknown projects and games?

But BGG is your playground, and I absolutely love it in general. Just the occasional protest from how I see things.
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Daniel Danzer
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I like the "one thread" solution. In this, all updates, announcements, discussions, and so on find their place. Every thread opened after this could be deleted with the hint to post in the "main thread".

Another way (but again, this will not appear in my "recent additions", where I keep track of my wishlist items) would be to add a link to the kickstarter project in the "More Information" space of the game. I did this at Rithmomachy.

This would make everything fine for everybody and keep the game page absolutely non-overflooded, like, say, the Kings of Air and Steam page, which looks like a sole kickstarter advertising ...
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Russ Williams
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I also am not interested in following a big list of "all new and upcoming games" because most new/upcoming games aren't of great interest to me. News about game X (where X is some specific game I'm interested in) is what I am interested in, and I don't see why the game entry for game X would be harmed by having news about a kickstarter version of the game, just as game entries already often have much news about other upcoming versions of a game.

In short, the policy seems very inconsistent and unhelpful to fans of specific games, and it ghetto-izes kickstarter editions specifically. I encourage Aldie and the BGG powers that be to reconsider this policy and permit a single kickstarter thread to exist in a specific game's forum. A single thread would solve the supposed spam problem as well as serving the interests of users interested in the specific game.
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duchamp wrote:
I like the "one thread" solution. In this, all updates, announcements, discussions, and so on find their place. Every thread opened after this could be deleted with the hint to post in the "main thread".

I like this, too.
And if this thread will be opened in the News subforum of the game, it would not clutter the General subforum for all eternity.
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Aldie wrote:
I think we have come up with some very generous methods of promoting Kickstarter projects here on BGG, and we now tracking pre-order links in the versions database. We offer special advertising for Kickstarter to have their widgets displayed on the game page, and we also prominently feature those links on the page. Another feature that has been recently added to GoneCardboard allows you to filter on all current projects (Announcement here)

I tried this with adding pre-order information to Space Empires: Close Encounters, which was approved some minutes ago. While the pre-prder link can only be added for the version, it is displayed with the main entry. That's better than I did expect!
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Geoff Speare
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I like the "one thread" idea as well (and I also like linking Gone Cardboard to one's wishlist to enable a custom list of upcoming releases).

I was diverted to the Ace of Spies forum today by a Kickstarter-based post; at present that game has a half-dozen or so threads which all appear to be promotional in nature. Should we be flagging these as rules violations?
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Herb
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Aldie wrote:
You can pretty much blame me for the Kickstarter policy of moving threads. While I adore Kickstarter/Crowdsourcing and the huge increase of projects that stem from it - I don't want the BoardGameGeek forums to become a spamfest for updates.

I think we have come up with some very generous methods of promoting Kickstarter projects here on BGG, and we now tracking pre-order links in the versions database. We offer special advertising for Kickstarter to have their widgets displayed on the game page, and we also prominently feature those links on the page. Another feature that has been recently added to GoneCardboard allows you to filter on all current projects (Announcement here)

We aren't trying to stifle discussion about games. If you have rules questions, or other concerns regarding the game - the game page is the right place to post.


Scott,

Wonder if you realize that BGG is becoming a historical database about games as well as a site for active gamers to exchange information about games that they are playing.

Obviously it is hard to be all things to all people, and some boundaries have to be drawn to keep the main players interested. All in all you've generally managed to achieve a reasonable balance.

Look forward to the new design.

Herb
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Daniel Danzer
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galfridus wrote:
I was diverted to the Ace of Spies forum today by a Kickstarter-based post; at present that game has a half-dozen or so threads which all appear to be promotional in nature.

Have a look at Ground Floor - I understand, that Aldie doesn`t want 15 threads about where to organize "3-packs" ... in a single day! For a game with a release date of October 2012.
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Daniel Danzer
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Wow - the forums of Ogre and Edo are full of kickstarter threads - nobody seems to care. I mean, admins - you have a lot to do, sure. But if it took you only a couple of hours to detect the only Rhithmomachy thread and move it away - how about taking care of the most popular and "hot" games, too?

I mean, you declare policies here and how to handle this - and it just doesn`t happen, right?
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Derry Salewski
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duchamp wrote:
Wow - the forums of Ogre and Edo are full of kickstarter threads - nobody seems to care. I mean, admins - you have a lot to do, sure. But if it took you only a couple of hours to detect the only Rhithmomachy thread and move it away - how about taking care of the most popular and "hot" games, too?

I mean, you declare policies here and how to handle this - and it just doesn`t happen, right?


I have it on good authority that at least one of the same people who flagged the threads this post is about flagged those ones as well. Maybe they sleep at 3 am.
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