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Subject: First episode of Tabletop is up and running rss

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Enrico Viglino
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Schandi wrote:

"We also got some of the companies to give us copies of the games for our players to take home, which as it turned out was a great thing, because EVERYONE who played on the show wanted to go home and immediately play again."

...

"We were expressly prohibited from drinking by YouTube. I still think that's stupid, but since they give us the money to make the show, if that's the only concession they demand from us, I'll take it."



Now, THIS all pleases me.

Then again, I'm just in favor of gaming. And drinking.
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Dustin Fertilla
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If they don't make it shorter, I will never even consider watching it again.

I watched the first couple minutes and skipped to the end. It seemed to have a very high production value, but even television shows with commercials run 22:30

I can't imagine watching a full 30 minute youtube show of people pretending to play a board game. I'd rather play a game myself.

I can't imagine non-gamers watching a full 30 minute youtube show of people pretending to play a board game. I'd assume they'd probably switch to a video about cute cats hiding from vaccuums.

Although people may disagree with me, I find it hard to believe viewership will remain so high if the time is not *significantly* reduced.

Also, just to follow the thread. A well-produced youtube board game show is not a bad thing for the hobby by any means.

Edit: just to clarify, I meant "pretending" as in they aren't focusing on playing the game, but rather are focusing on making the show. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some episodes had fixed results or pre-determined starting hands, etc.(They are playing the game to film it, not filming themselves playinga game)*edit 2* Clearly they are physically playing the game and it isn't imaginary or anything.
 
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There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
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dustinfertilla wrote:
even television shows with commercials run 22:30


Well there are also the TV shows with commercials that run ~45:00, including many reality shows
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Carl Bussema
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I don't think Wil Wheaton would stage a game just for production value. He's much more the type to just roll with whatever happens. I think this is very evident if you actually watched the whole video and saw the die rolls.

So let's see:

If you
* Are looking for a review show
* Can't stand (hyper-?) energetic people
* Want something more like 10-15 minutes
* Don't like casual banter in your board games

Then you are not the target audience for this show. Thank you for your time and feedback, and please continue to enjoy the numerous video review shows we already have, or your cat videos, or whatever it is you prefer to be watching.

I'm sure I missed a few, but those seem to be the common complaints.
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Joel Eddy
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InfoCynic wrote:
I don't think Wil Wheaton would stage a game just for production value. He's much more the type to just roll with whatever happens. I think this is very evident if you actually watched the whole video and saw the die rolls.

So let's see:

If you
* Are looking for a review show
* Can't stand (hyper-?) energetic people
* Want something more like 10-15 minutes
* Don't like casual banter in your board games

Then you are not the target audience for this show. Thank you for your time and feedback, and please continue to enjoy the numerous video review shows we already have, or your cat videos, or whatever it is you prefer to be watching.

I'm sure I missed a few, but those seem to be the common complaints.


It's hard to guage temerity from a post on the internet, but that tone is pretty insulting and dismissive. Some people are offering constructive criticism to improve the show (at least in their eyes), and then we get posts like this.

"You shouldn't bother with this show then. It's already PERFECT!!"

I mean c'mon.

My apologies if that isn't an accurate depiction of what you and some others are saying.
 
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David Sevier
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I really enjoyed it, quite a bit more than I thought I would since I usually get bored watching other people play games. The over-the-top atmosphere probably helped a good bit, since it made things more interesting than it would be if everyone was just quietly sitting there and making an occasional comment.

Brightened up a dull day considerably, so kudos to Wil and everyone else involved!
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Victoria Osborne
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Really guys, Wil did a great show and guess what, the target audience is NOT us. It is people that are just learning about it, or want to learn about it, or are even unaware but have heard a bit about it because of things like going cardboard.

I really really like the over the top fun they are having, that was a blast, it kept the energy up. The added length was a plus, the graphics really good. You would almost think that professionals in the biz of making shows was producing directing and running it...oh waid IT WAS PROFESSIONALS IN THE BIZ.

The show does exactly waht it is suppose to do, bring in borderline people to learn more about gaming and the games and possibly bring them deeper into the board game community. Instead of being negative about the show we should be encouraging it and supporting it even more. When some poor soul comes lurking into BGG to see what we have to say we should be seeming like a warm welcoming group of people that we are who have had our own social foibles to overcome and understand how hard it is for awkward nerdy people to come out and beoome involved.

They will learn more and see more in depth reviews and play by play analysis and strategy forumns when they get here. Let them feel like they are in the same C list that Wil Wheaton is in by being on this forumn and let them learn, instead of dissing a truly important work for allowing EVERYONE whether they play or not get a bit more insight into our hobby.

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Enrico Viglino
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Valairia wrote:

The show does exactly waht it is suppose to do, bring in borderline people to learn more about gaming and the games and possibly bring them deeper into the board game community.


Oh really, doesn't gaming have enough borderline people as it is?
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Victoria Osborne
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calandale wrote:
Valairia wrote:

The show does exactly waht it is suppose to do, bring in borderline people to learn more about gaming and the games and possibly bring them deeper into the board game community.


Oh really, doesn't gaming have enough borderline people as it is?


Never, boarder line people are people who buy games. More games we sell more money more games available. Borderline people are fresh blood into our hobby and our economy. We need more borderline people or we will stagnate.
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Carl Bussema
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eekamouse wrote:
It's hard to guage temerity from a post on the internet, but that tone is pretty insulting and dismissive. Some people are offering constructive criticism to improve the show (at least in their eyes), and then we get posts like this.

"You shouldn't bother with this show then. It's already PERFECT!!"

I mean c'mon.

My apologies if that isn't an accurate depiction of what you and some others are saying.


Considering the # of posts where people are trying to compare this to a review show and offer criticism to shape the show more into something like that, it is intended to be dismissive. I honestly stand by my statement above because if you do fall into any of those categories, then you are NOT the target audience. The show is NOT going to change any of those things. Little things like spending longer on the rules could happen (although not for this season which is already filmed), but Wil is who Wil is, and he's going to do the show his way, and he's certainly not going to change it into something completely different (a review show for instance, or a somber and serious analytic look at board games). He's also not going to change the length... you can't adequately show a board game being played in 30 minutes, and that also isn't changing--read the blog--he is deliberately looking to recreate a "Celebrity Poker" style show, and with that goal in mind, he succeeds brilliantly here.

So as I said before, if you don't like any of those major points, then this really isn't your show, and no amount of "constructive" (or otherwise) criticism is going to change that.

It's kinda like playing Monopoly and then saying that you think the game should use Action Points instead of money and a deck of Command Cards instead of dice, and each player should have three tokens they can split their actions between. At some point, Monopoly just isn't the game you're looking for, and you're better served by finding something else to play.
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Joel Eddy
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InfoCynic wrote:

Considering the # of posts where people are trying to compare this to a review show and offer criticism to shape the show more into something like that, it is intended to be dismissive.


Good. I thought you were trying to put words in my mouth. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't putting any in yours.
 
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Enrico Viglino
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Valairia wrote:
We need more borderline people or we will stagnate.


Well, they certainly make life more interesting.whistle
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James King
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Will Wheaton's first "Tabletop" episode featuring Days of Wonder's "Small World" got the series off to a great start. "Tabletop" is a fantastic program that actually does justice to conveying the fun of playing a modern/Euro strategy board game as well as the sense and sensibility of the gameplay to the uninitiated. Nice computer graphics act as pointer guides along the way. Wheaton himself and his fellow guest players were also at their uninhibited geeky best.

The show, however, would benefit by having a dice arena and a special Tabletop trophy to award to the Winner of the Week. I couldn't help but cringe each time when the "Small World" die occasionally rolled astray across the tile-laden board and knocked aside a few tiles.
 
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Enrico Viglino
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ShreveportLAGamer wrote:


The show, however, would benefit by having a dice arena.... I couldn't help but cringe each time when the "Small World" die occasionally rolled astray across the tile-laden board and knocked aside a few tiles.


This is the kinda thinking that kept them sober.

Booo!
 
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eekamouse wrote:
InfoCynic wrote:
If you
* Are looking for a review show
* Can't stand (hyper-?) energetic people
* Want something more like 10-15 minutes
* Don't like casual banter in your board games

Then you are not the target audience for this show. Thank you for your time and feedback, and please continue to enjoy the numerous video review shows we already have, or your cat videos, or whatever it is you prefer to be watching.

I'm sure I missed a few, but those seem to be the common complaints.


It's hard to guage temerity from a post on the internet, but that tone is pretty insulting and dismissive. Some people are offering constructive criticism to improve the show (at least in their eyes), and then we get posts like this.

I think his post is really spot on.

Wil doesn't review games.
He is a bit hyper (but that's his personality).
His show is longer than the usual shows (except maybe Shut Up & Sit Down).
There's more banter than usual.

Of course that's almost all because it is a gaming show and not a review show.
So to review Wil's show like a review show is like comparing apples and pears (as we use to say in Germany).

Valairia wrote:
Really guys, Wil did a great show and guess what, the target audience is NOT us.

Please speak for yourself. I am part of the target audience.
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Ed G.
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They need to use a dice tower or tray. I'm sure Geek Chic sells one or both, and using it would give the camera a consistent place to focus for rolls. In all, an entertaining and high-quality production!
 
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James King
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Ursus_Major wrote:
They need to use a dice tower or tray. I'm sure Geek Chic sells one or both, and using it would give the camera a consistent place to focus for rolls. In all, an entertaining and high-quality production!

While I have an aversion to dice comodes towers, I must admit that I'd like to see different dice arenas and towers used just for variety's sake.

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Stephen Avery
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There needs to be an action sequence, gratitious violence and sex and at least one segment where the dice tumble in slow motion while Wheaton reaches for them yelling "NooooOOOOOOOOOO!"

Steve"Now *thats* good Television"Avery
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Joel Eddy
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evillego6 wrote:
Hi all, my girlfriend and I decided we wanted to try out a board game recently. Neither of us have experience outside of board games that are meant for children or party games. We play Magic the Gathering a bit here and there.

I'd like to find a good breaking-in type of board game for us to play, but I find many board game concepts to be boring. Like I can't imagine myself being excited about the subject matter in Ticket To Ride or Settlers of Catan. That's why I think a fantasy based game would be perfect - I love fantasy things. Space Opera type stuff too actually.

I recently watched "TableTop" with Wil Wheton the other day, and they were playing "Small World." I thought it looked awesome, but I don't know if it would work well with just two players.

Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions for a not too complex game that fits what I've mentioned, please let me know. Thanks in advance guys!


OK. Maybe I'm full of crap! That post above was just made today in the General Forum.

But! Ahem! I still stand by my criticisms and suggestions for improving the show!

After all that's only one thread out of the thousands and thousand of views the first show got! I find the evidence of copies selling out at Amazon mostly anecdotal and circumstantial. devil
 
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Johan Haglert
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Watching the first 00:50-03:35 would had covered most of the game (rules / basics / description.) The rest is just a game session of the game.
 
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Ed G.
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aliquis wrote:
Watching the first 00:50-03:35 would had covered most of the game (rules / basics / description.) The rest is just a game session of the game.


I believe that is the point.
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Kenny VenOsdel
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Quote:
he is deliberately looking to recreate a "Celebrity Poker" style show, and with that goal in mind, he succeeds brilliantly here.


I agree. I used to enjoy watching Poker shows every once in awhile and that was the exact impression I got from the show.
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Joel Eddy
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kvenosdel wrote:
Quote:
he is deliberately looking to recreate a "Celebrity Poker" style show, and with that goal in mind, he succeeds brilliantly here.


I agree. I used to enjoy watching Poker shows every once in awhile and that was the exact impression I got from the show.


I have a curiosity. How many shows in a row of Small World could people watch? Let me state off the bat that I hate watching poker on TV, especially celebrity poker (that might be part of my issue). I used to stomach the World Series when it was on ESPN, but not for very long.

But, I understand that it pulls in plenty of viewers. Is there a board game that could sustain a relatively stable number of viewers over the course of multiple shows? I know they've tried some stuff with Magic: The Gathering. I'm not sure how successful that was.
 
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There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
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eekamouse wrote:
How many shows in a row of Small World could people watch? ...Is there a board game that could sustain a relatively stable number of viewers over the course of multiple shows? I know they've tried some stuff with Magic: The Gathering. I'm not sure how successful that was.


Go. (Been done; there are entire Go TV channels in Asia apparently)
Chess. (Believe that's been done already too)

There are other games that I would watch multiple shows of, except for the fact that it would ruin my own discovery of strategy, which I prefer to explore via play rather than via watching/reading. These would include:

Dungeon Twister 2: Prison
Hansa Teutonica
König von Siam
just to name a few.
However, these are games that I personally would watch multiple episodes of. Can't vouch for other people or number of viewers.
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Joel Eddy
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JohnnyDollar wrote:
eekamouse wrote:
How many shows in a row of Small World could people watch? ...Is there a board game that could sustain a relatively stable number of viewers over the course of multiple shows? I know they've tried some stuff with Magic: The Gathering. I'm not sure how successful that was.


Go. (Been done; there are entire Go TV channels in Asia apparently)
Chess. (Believe that's been done already too)

There are other games that I would watch multiple shows of, except for the fact that it would ruin my own discovery of strategy, which I prefer to explore via play rather than via watching/reading. These would include:

Dungeon Twister 2: Prison
Hansa Teutonica
König von Siam
just to name a few.
However, these are games that I personally would watch multiple episodes of. Can't vouch for other people or number of viewers.


Ya, I was thinking of more modern games. I would be like the guy from Clockwork Orange if had to watch a Chess show.

Out of those you listed, I would personally only watch Hansa Teutonica. I see that going over like lead balloon though!
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