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Subject: I'd make the guy take 5 begging cards. You might think differently. rss

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Jason Hathaway
United States
Waycross
Ga
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So here is the situation:

I'm playing a 3 player game on BaJ. We are on round seven, about to go into the second harvest. I haven't played the best game to this point. I had the "combo" of Clay Worker plus Wood Cutter plus Brushwood Collector plus Axe. (Sounds sketchy already...) and can now build wooden rooms for 3W each. (!?!)

So, as you might imagine, I have no food engine set up. I begin round 7 with no food and 5 wood rooms. I take fishing for 3 food. The next player has 7 food already, and is the only one with a fireplace. He takes Build Room to set up family growth. The third player has zero food and 3 people at this point. He takes Grain with his first action. I think long and hard about taking Major/Minor to get the other fireplace and getting one begging card, meanwhile forcing third guy to take day labor and get two beggers. I end up taking Day Labor myself to lock up food for harvest.

so...

http://www.boiteajeux.net/jeux/agr/partie.php?id=167723

If "Thunkd" takes Major/Minor here to convert fireplace to cooking hearth, it looks like our mutual opponent will get a lot of resources and FIVE BEGGING CARDS.

Thoughts?

Should Thunkd block Major/Minor and knock the third player out? Or should he set up his own farm with a big resource grab or FG+Minor?

I'm pretty sure that I block player three every time in this spot. Am I in the minority here?
 
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Domenic
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San Jose
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I play mostly IRL, with actual friends, so there is a pressure to avoid taking someone out early. That said, I think I would still avoid "taking them out."

1) If the killer move is not the move that maximizes my score relative to the other player, then I'm failing to maximize my chance of winning. Instead, I'm only minimizing my chances of coming in last.
2) This isn't an elimination game, so if they can't win, they can still king-make by always trying to block my best move for the rest of the game. If I've already made a move that minimizes their chance of winning without maximizing my own chance, then I have no grounds to complain that their sabotage of me is unsportsmanlike.
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David Boeren
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Marietta
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thatnerd wrote:
Should Thunkd block Major/Minor and knock the third player out? Or should he set up his own farm with a big resource grab or FG+Minor


He should do whatever is going to help him win. Taking out one player is a bad move if it puts you behind the other player. I mean, who's in the lead here anyway? If Thunkd is looking like he's winning and can sabotage the #2 guy he should do it. If he's sabotaging #3 at the expense of his lead over #2 then it's a stupid move.

Also, which move is bigger? Hurting one guy which only helps you in comparison to him or grabbing a ton of resources that give you a lead over BOTH other players?

How about the effect of pointing out you COULD have screwed him but then not doing so? Now he owes you a favor which might come in handy later when he decided who to block or kingmaker.

You've gotta look at the big picture.
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Matt Shields
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Portland
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thatnerd wrote:
So here is the situation:

Should Thunkd block Major/Minor and knock the third player out? Or should he set up his own farm with a big resource grab or FG+Minor?


After taking a look at the game, I think Thunkd was correct to not block. If he takes Ma/Mi, not only does he forgo family growing in round 7, but he will also miss out on family growing in round 8, which you were guaranteed to get that round. (You already had the button, and even if the 3rd player (chief) took it, you're still in front of Thunkd.)

I'm a big fan of sticking people with begging cards if you can. But in this case, although he would have blowing up chief if he blocked, I think thunkd would have fallen behind you significantly.

Stepping that far out of line in family growth is a pretty big deal.

EDIT: The other thing that's worth always thinking about in these cases, is whether you're sure that the guy is really going to take begging cards. Does he have some minor he can play to give him food? Does he have the Layabout? If the opponent is a good player, and he seems to have left himself wide open like that, there's a chance that he knows exactly what he's doing, and has a plan if you try to starve him.
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Beer be with you.
United States
Northlake
Illinois
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Settlers of Catan does not improve with your house rules. The best option if you don't like the rules as written is to just select another game.
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dommer2029 wrote:
I play mostly IRL, with actual friends, so there is a pressure to avoid takeing someone out early.


Here's how I play !!!
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Ben Bateson
United Kingdom
Ross-on-Wye
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Assuming I can dredge up the extra 3 food from somewhere, I play FG. 4 family members in Round 9 is huge. Plus it also makes a dick out of Player 1, who will go into Stage 4 with only two family members, one of whom will be needed in Round 9 to take family growth.

Player 3's only realistic way to feed is to use grain + Bake + 1 other, and doing that will use his entire three actions for this round (inefficient), plus he will start next round in no better position than he is now. So, in effect, he's digging his own grave, and doesn't really need any help. Plus, he might very well Layabout.

In fact, I'd go as far as to say that FG'ing now is a potentially winning move for Thunkd.
 
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Geoff Burkman
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Kettering
Ohio
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I love that Jason just passed on a 9Wood. devil
 
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Mike T
United States
Maryland
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I second everything that Matt Shields said.

I love blocking people, but here it would mean tossing his own game in the toilet.
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Jason Hathaway
United States
Waycross
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MisterG wrote:
I love that Jason just passed on a 9Wood. devil


I told you, I'm not playing the best game right now...sigh.
 
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Frederic Bush
United States
San Antonio
Texas
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MisterG wrote:
I love that Jason just passed on a 9Wood. :devil:


+ 1 clay

 
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Bryan Thunkd
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Florence
MA
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I thought it made more sense to make a good move for myself than knock the other guy. He had to scramble to feed anyway, leaving good choices for the next round. Hurting him would have been great for you, not as good for me. It all worked out in the end well enough.
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