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Subject: Hannibal: Rome vs Carthage V Commands and Colors: Ancients rss

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I'd say that Commands & Colors: Ancients is the more straightforward of the two. While there is a lot to recommend Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage, I would not say that it's straightforward as a wargame. It is a very good game, but it took us a while to iron everything out. If you've got the patience for working your way up the experience/learning curve I'd say that it will be more rewarding. However I'd steer away from it as a first wargame.

You should be able to pick up Commands & Colors: Ancients very easily, and play quickly.

Until a reprint, Lost Battles is not readily obtainable, and not worth the price for a first wargame.
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autumnweave wrote:
Until a reprint, Lost Battles is not readily obtainable, and not worth the price for a first wargame.

It is still available at Noble Knight, a reprint won't happen unless they have sold their copies. Yes, $120 is much for a first wargame, therefore I did not bring it up here when seeing the thread. But it is cheaper than C&C: Ancients with the first expansion and includes about as many scenarios and as a bonus the strategic Empire game, so the money is well spent, even if you just look at the numbers.
I am very happy to own both, C&C: Ancients (with 1st expansion) and Lost Battles
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M@tthijs
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Did you visit my www.kobudovenlo.nl? It has game info
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Buy both.
Throw away the cards from Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage which are used for combat.
Play game.
Each time a battle occurs, use Commands & Colors: Ancients to solve it.

Will take you more than a sitting, but I expect you'll have a blast!
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Peter Hutchinson
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C&C: Ancients: easier, shorter, large number of scenarios (some better balanced than others), tactical concern, card management game.

Hannibal: RvC: more complex than the above game, strategic concerns, longer game, usually (but not always) enough strategic options and time to ride out a bad hand.(Despite what some say, I like and always use the battle cards). [The Valley Games reprint is also very aesthetically attractive.]

Julius Caesar: in terms of complexity probably on a par with C&C, moderate game time, strategic concerns, card hand variations not usually decisive. [Columbia Games has got a winner here and it looks good as well.]

Personally, I much prefer both JC and Hannibal over C&C; they are for me a far more satisfying gaming experience with I think a "richer" game narrative experience, more game tension and good game balance.

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Roger Hobden
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ThomasAH wrote:
autumnweave wrote:
Until a reprint, Lost Battles is not readily obtainable, and not worth the price for a first wargame.

It is still available at Noble Knight, a reprint won't happen unless they have sold their copies. Yes, $120 is much for a first wargame, therefore I did not bring it up here when seeing the thread. But it is cheaper than C&C: Ancients with the first expansion and includes about as many scenarios and as a bonus the strategic Empire game, so the money is well spent, even if you just look at the numbers.
I am very happy to own both, C&C: Ancients (with 1st expansion) and Lost Battles


I second that.

I ordered my copy of Lost Battles through Noble Knight the 27th of march, and it was delivered to Canada the 12th of april, just in time for Easter weekend. cool

Lost Battles is an introductory wargame, perfect for beginners, yet deep enough for more experienced players.

I own Commands & Colors: Ancients, Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage, and now Lost Battles , and enjoy them all.

I would use any of these three games to introduce a non-gamer to wargames.

Like the publishers of Avalon Hill games used to say back in the sixties, all you really need is the necessary Brain Power to understand these games.

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Martyn Smith
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Having looked up Lost Battles I agree that it looks absolutely fascinating. Unfortunately, it's completely sold out in the UK

So, whilst it might have provided a great option for me, I am afraid I am going to have to settle for a game that is at least available...

(Why is it that this now turns Lost Battles into some sort of unobtainable Grail Game for me... Grrr...)
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thechangingman wrote:
Having looked up Lost Battles I agree that it looks absolutely fascinating. Unfortunately, it's completely sold out in the UK

You could by the original book (which is included in the box, too) and play with miniatures. And I think there are still copies of the rulebook and charts available. The wiki page Lost Battles has links to AARs with pictures of such plays, just look for the mbicon to find them in the list.

Or just look at this image for an even simpler setup of Marathon (490 BC):
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Neil Henning
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C&C:A is a great first choice. It is easy to learn, teach and get to the table.

Hannibal is another very good game but is more difficult to learn, teach and get to the table.

JC is a good game but it is very hard almost impossible to win as Ceasar. We played many games of it and enjoyed it but could not find a way for Ceasar to win and so it now collects dust.
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Stephen Harper
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I would start with C&C Ancients. An easier learning curve, and you will get right into the battles, and have several playings under your belt in no time. Then try Hannibal at a later date. I do like the idea of using C&C to game out the battles in Hannibal. That would be neat. Since you have the opportunity of multi-player games with your sons, at the risk of being premature I would suggest you also look at Successors and Pax Romana somewhere down the road. Be careful with Julius Caesar. It is a nice game, but it is very difficult to win as the Caesarian player.
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It's not OCD until you sleeve your UNO cards.
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ThomasAH wrote:
autumnweave wrote:
Until a reprint, Lost Battles is not readily obtainable, and not worth the price for a first wargame.

It is still available at Noble Knight, a reprint won't happen unless they have sold their copies.


I stand corrected. It still is in stock at Noble Knight, but it's $140 now.
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Roger Hobden
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autumnweave wrote:
ThomasAH wrote:
autumnweave wrote:
Until a reprint, Lost Battles is not readily obtainable, and not worth the price for a first wargame.

It is still available at Noble Knight, a reprint won't happen unless they have sold their copies.


I stand corrected. It still is in stock at Noble Knight, but it's $140 now.

Hmm
The price was 119.95 when I ordered it just two weeks ago ...
surprise
Don't wait two more weeks before ordering it ...
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Peter Garnett
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You could also consider 'Empire:The Macedonian & Punic Wars' also by Phil Sabin of Lost Battles fame. The easiest game I've ever played & enjoyed.
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Mallet wrote:
autumnweave wrote:
I stand corrected. It still is in stock at Noble Knight, but it's $140 now.

Hmm
The price was 119.95 when I ordered it just two weeks ago ...

When I wrote my message (24 hours ago!) it was at $119.95, too.
Noble Knight, I know that you have to pay your employees and bills, but Lost Battles needs to be sold so people can enjoy it. These extra $20 would have brought it above my hard limit of what I would pay for a single game.
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Bartow Riggs
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I bought it a few months ago for $99.95. Looks like supply vs demand to me.
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Martyn Smith
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Thank you one and all for your invaluable insights and advice.

I have decided, given the weight of evidence presented here, to go for Commands and Colors: Ancients and I'll be putting in my order for this with GuruGames in London (unless anyone knows of a cheaper option!)

I am grateful for your help and hope to be passing by the Wargames forum from time to time with questions and to check up on new gaming options.

Happy Days
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Bartow Riggs
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thechangingman wrote:
Thank you one and all for your invaluable insights and advice.

I have decided, given the weight of evidence presented here, to go for Commands and Colors: Ancients and I'll be putting in my order for this with GuruGames in London (unless anyone knows of a cheaper option!)

I am grateful for your help and hope to be passing by the Wargames forum from time to time with questions and to check up on new gaming options.

Happy Days


Good choice. Let me know when you want to play on Vassal!
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thechangingman wrote:
Thank you one and all for your invaluable insights and advice.

I have decided, given the weight of evidence presented here, to go for Commands and Colors: Ancients and I'll be putting in my order for this with GuruGames in London (unless anyone knows of a cheaper option!)

I am grateful for your help and hope to be passing by the Wargames forum from time to time with questions and to check up on new gaming options.

Happy Days


Good choice. It's a great game and a good first step into wargaming.

So... how long until you buy H:RvC?

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Chris Stevens
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thechangingman wrote:
Thank you one and all for your invaluable insights and advice.

I have decided, given the weight of evidence presented here, to go for Commands and Colors: Ancients and I'll be putting in my order for this with GuruGames in London (unless anyone knows of a cheaper option!)

I am grateful for your help and hope to be passing by the Wargames forum from time to time with questions and to check up on new gaming options.

Happy Days


I think you have made the right choice here. But as others have pointed out you will almost certainly end up buying both!

Have fun.

Chris
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Martyn Smith
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pusherman42 wrote:
thechangingman wrote:
Thank you one and all for your invaluable insights and advice.

I have decided, given the weight of evidence presented here, to go for Commands and Colors: Ancients and I'll be putting in my order for this with GuruGames in London (unless anyone knows of a cheaper option!)

I am grateful for your help and hope to be passing by the Wargames forum from time to time with questions and to check up on new gaming options.

Happy Days


Good choice. It's a great game and a good first step into wargaming.

So... how long until you buy H:RvC?



If past history has taught me anything, then I am pretty sure I won't be able to hold out for too long.... shake
 
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WarMonger2009 wrote:
thechangingman wrote:
Thank you one and all for your invaluable insights and advice.

I have decided, given the weight of evidence presented here, to go for Commands and Colors: Ancients and I'll be putting in my order for this with GuruGames in London (unless anyone knows of a cheaper option!)

I am grateful for your help and hope to be passing by the Wargames forum from time to time with questions and to check up on new gaming options.

Happy Days


I think you have made the right choice here. But as others have pointed out you will almost certainly end up buying both!

Have fun.

Chris


My only regret is not having gone down this road sooner... Nonetheless, I am VERY much looking forward to my new game arriving (quickly followed, I am sure, by the next...)

I have a very big back-catalogue to explore. It's like suddenly getting into Bob Dylan whilst only owning one album
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