$10.00
Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
6 Posts

BattleCON: War of Indines» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Beating Heketch with Rukyuk rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Nicolas Daoust
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
I tried Rukyuk against Heketch. Both players were experienced with their characters, and I have a good win-loss ratio against my opponent.

But the game was stupidly one-sided against me. It seemed Heketch could counter everything I tried!

Trying to stay at range allows Heketch's play style to shine while his Priority advantage punishes any Reload. Just those alone could unbalance the matchup, but there are further problems.

- If I get away from Heketch, I give him his Dark Force
- If I'm at range, a Dark Force'd Drive is an auto-hit
- Reloading guarantees Heketch a nice hit due to low Priority
- If I use Point Blank in melee, I lose Priority and can still be stunned by Critical
- Even Longshot Trick isn't safe because its pitiful priority can't hit Merciless
- Merciless also counters Dash perfectly

I hit Heketch a single time through the whole fight. I want to think there would be a way to win... please convince me so.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Runtime Error
Switzerland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
You start a post with your "good win-ratio" and "whine" when your opponent figured out how to beat you. I think this means back to study... Sorry if I am too harsh.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad Talton
United States
New Mexico
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
(╯‵Д′)╯彡┻━┻
mbmbmbmbmb
Ceraus wrote:
I tried Rukyuk against Heketch. Both players were experienced with their characters, and I have a good win-loss ratio against my opponent.

But the game was stupidly one-sided against me. It seemed Heketch could counter everything I tried!

Trying to stay at range allows Heketch's play style to shine while his Priority advantage punishes any Reload. Just those alone could unbalance the matchup, but there are further problems.


The match will feel one sided because Heketch turns everything you know about Rukyuk on its head. You can no longer play Rukyuk the way you are used to playing him--it just doesn't work. Instead think of this more as a challenge. You're going to have to play Rukyuk completely different if you're going to have a chance here.

Rukyuk is primarily a "question character". He has a powerful toolset (high range and mobility), and he challenges the opponent to work around those tools. Other characters, like Cadenza, Seth, and Luc, are more "answer characters"--they have a trick, tool, or gimmick that will answer the question and, if they pick the right answer for the right question, land them on top. They have to think carefully about their opponent's tools and capabilities to pick the right move.

So what happens when two "question characters" like Rukyuk and Heketch meet up? What you're seeing is that Heketch's question is far more pressing than yours, which means you have to play Rukyuk like an answer character--that is, far more predictively.

What you'll find is that Rukyuk is extremely flexible. For almost every move Heketch has, you have a counter as well.


Quote:

- If I get away from Heketch, I give him his Dark Force

You'll just have to accept this. If you suspect he will try to escape with Assassin or Dash, use a Gunner Strike. Then he can't get his token back without making a conscious move into your range. Heketch can only break a strike with critical, nothing else he has does enough damage.
Quote:

- If I'm at range, a Dark Force'd Drive is an auto-hit

Drop a dash if you see this coming and set up at range 2. Suddenly he'll have no token AND you'll be in PB/Trick range to him. Once you predict this a few times, he'll stop using it, then you can throw crossfire or sniper's instead when he fails to use it, threatening both options. At that point, it's pure mind game.
Quote:

- Reloading guarantees Heketch a nice hit due to low Priority

Sniper Reload + Swift is a great way to get your setups, and has priority 7, better than anything that doesn't use DF. Your swift shell is an EXTREMELY important tool in this matchup, so make sure to use it carefully.
Quote:

- If I use Point Blank in melee, I lose Priority and can still be stunned by Critical

This move is way too obvious. Use your Trick Strike + longshot here instead, since critical gives Heketch no way to escape retaliation if it doesn't stun. If you hold the center field, this move simply cannot miss except against a dash.

Watch your opponent's discard--only use PB when Critical is on cooldown. Alternatively, Burst! Critical doesn't have a range extension, so your opp has to play slow (burst or shot) to guarantee the hit, which your PB grasp would then beat.
Quote:

- Even Longshot Trick isn't safe because its pitiful priority can't hit Merciless

This is where you do your Point Blank Shot + Explosive, since Heketch can't go over 3 damage with Merciless, and you have SG 4. You might be thinking instead of assassin (auto-dodge if your opp is slower), as Trick Longshot goes out to Range 4 and will hit after Merciless's teleport.

Have you tried Gunner Grasp + Longshot for priority 6 and all-field range? Unless he antes DF, this will be faster than or clash with most of his attacks.
Quote:

- Merciless also counters Dash perfectly

This is when you want to reload--Merciless can't stop your reload direct move, and is Heketch's slow style. Reload early and often, since you'll want Swift Shell and Longshot all the time to add threat to your attacks.

Quote:

I hit Heketch a single time through the whole fight. I want to think there would be a way to win... please convince me so.


Range 2 is your friend. At Range 2, Heketch has to use both his knives AND his extension styles (Merciless / Rasping) to make sure you don't burst. If he uses either of these, he's wide open for a Gunner Grasp or Longshot Crossfire Strike. If he doesn't, he's wide open for a trick or longshot + crossfire burst that's going to punish him very heavily.

It sounds like you played a lot of the wrong cards at the wrong time, which can lead to a pretty crushing loss. You have to change your play style entirely to deal with Heketch, and the changes you have to make are a very stark step away from the normally aggressive and safe way to play Rukyuk. If you think more about damage control (answer style) and less about landing your own hits (question style) you will likely see some marked improvement in this matchup.
14 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Josh Gaudreau
Canada
Winnipeg
Manitoba
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
You only played one game in that matchup? More games with those two characters would help to flesh out the strategies for Rukyuk. Perhaps you were too obvious in your plays? Or missed seeing some weaknesses in your opponent?
Only playing one game with that matchup is too soon to "need convincing" from others, when you haven't tried scratching the surface yourself.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nicolas Daoust
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Well, to clarify, I posted about my win-loss ratio only to indicate our relative strength so far. Also, I did play just the one match before posting here, but for my defense, Heketch had 17 life at the end.

Kyokai wrote:
What you're seeing is that Heketch's question is far more pressing than yours

That's, uh... actually pretty inspiring. I did play Rukyuk as usual, trying to trap Heketch in situations where I have the advantage, but it seemed that all situations were to his.

Quote:
It sounds like you played a lot of the wrong cards at the wrong time

That is entirely possible. I might have to ascribe part of the decisiveness of my defeat to luck: it seems improbable that my opponent would always play the right counter to my moves, regardless of any mind game I tried. We clashed 4 times to my disadvantage, Critical got through my Stun Guard twice and Merciless canceled 3 attacks that would otherwise have hit.


Going through the rest of your post, it seems that Longshot and Swift are critical ammunition. I figure I need to keep Swift for Reloading so that I can activate first. Gunner Grasp has a high chance of working if it doesn't get stunned. I guess I'll make Heketch waste his scary styles by being evasive and only attack if it's a guaranteed good trade.

Your post was exactly what I needed: thank you. I'll go for a rematch and see how it works.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Artifice Knight
United States
Utah
flag msg tools
Huh, didn't even see this here! Tried this exact same match up today, with the knoweldge that Heketch seemed suited to fight Rukyuk, a character that I find myself in general comfortable with playing.

And, well, I have to say it is a more challenging game. My 'idea' situation is no longer quite ideal. He is far enough away to stare down the sights of a sniper, then he'll have his force token and be in my face next turn. To be fair, I didn't even try that particular trick, since I had ruled it out at least a little.

Still, game ended 7-0. I think if I had called a few more of when he'd try to psycho/assassin it'd have ended better-Outside of that dark force token Heketch really doesn't have a lot of damage potential-a well played crossfire or point blank shot could ensure the tradeoff.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.