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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Trying to figure out the distribution on the dice... rss

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Chris J Davis
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So this is what I can make out from the images we've seen so far (guesses are in red):

@ = 1 heart/damage
~ = 1 surge
1 = 1 range
X = miss
U = 1 shield
[] = blank

Red x2
- @@@~
- @@@
- @@
- @@
- @
- @~

Blue
- 6@~
- 5@
- 4@@
- 3@@
- 3@@~
- X

Yellow x2
- @@~
- @~
- 1@

- 1@
- 1~
- 2~

Brown
- UU
- UU

- U
- U
- []
- []

Grey x2
- UUU
- UU
- UU
- U
- U
- []

Black
- UUUU
- UUU
- UU
- UU
- U

- []
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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In 1st Ed, we had a "primary" Melee, Ranged and Magic dice (Red, Blue, White), and by "primary" I mean most Melee attacks used the Red die, most Ranged used Yellow, etc, but it doesn't appear to be this kind of distribution in 2nd Ed. I wonder why? I kinda liked the previous distinction.

In 2nd ed, it looks like Blue and Red are "attack" dice, Yellow are "power" dice, and White/Brown/Black are "defense" dice.

-shnar
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Proto Persona
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Well, there is the possibility that the blue die is the only attack die, and that every weapon in the game uses it. This would make red dice the equivalent of the former green dice and thus prolly don't have a miss on them.

The grey dice look to be the starting defense die, so there is a chance the last face is also a blank to make it weaker then the brown and black dice.

Everything else looks pretty good to me.
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Charles Burke
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The grey dice has already been described as the medium defense die in a preview. From the 4 shields we've seen on one side of the black die, I've fairly certain that is the upgraded defense die, leaveing the brown die to the be the base defense die.
 
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Chris J Davis
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I also remember seeing a hero who starts with the brown die for defence.
 
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Chris J Davis
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shnar wrote:
In 1st Ed, we had a "primary" Melee, Ranged and Magic dice (Red, Blue, White), and by "primary" I mean most Melee attacks used the Red die, most Ranged used Yellow, etc, but it doesn't appear to be this kind of distribution in 2nd Ed. I wonder why? I kinda liked the previous distinction.


Of course you did.

In 1E, white attacks were just plain better than blue attacks, and the yellow dice were next to useless. The power dice were also wonky and there were way too many surges.

This looks like a much better distribution.
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Chris J Davis
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One thing I'm kinda glad of: every defence die has at least one blank face, meaning no matter how tanked up your heroes get they're still at some risk from the tiniest of monsters. devil
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Stefan Nemeth
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I can't see the red dice having an X side.

Why would they include two of them?

I think red is for more power and yellow is for more finesse.
 
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Chris J Davis
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Nemeth wrote:
I can't see the red dice having an X side.

Why would they include two of them?

I think red is for more power and yellow is for more finesse.


Quite possible. In that case, replace the X with @@.

EDIT: You've convinced me. OP updated.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Yellow dice have already been classified as "Power Dice" and I believe the game comes with 2 (though I may have been mistaken).

-shnar
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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bleached_lizard wrote:
shnar wrote:
In 1st Ed, we had a "primary" Melee, Ranged and Magic dice (Red, Blue, White), and by "primary" I mean most Melee attacks used the Red die, most Ranged used Yellow, etc, but it doesn't appear to be this kind of distribution in 2nd Ed. I wonder why? I kinda liked the previous distinction.


Of course you did.

In 1E, white attacks were just plain better than blue attacks, and the yellow dice were next to useless. The power dice were also wonky and there were way too many surges.

This looks like a much better distribution.

Was it so wrong that attacks were different? Sheesh, sorry I have an opinion...

-shnar
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Stefan Nemeth
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With "power" i meant... pure damage

I like the characteristics of red and yellow dice (more dmg / more surges/range)

in 1Ed the characteristics were green = good and yellow = sucky
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Green *was* the extra "damage" die of the group (lots of hearts, little range). The yellow die was the "range" die (lots of range, little damage).

It looks like 2nd Ed is making Blue be the primary "attack" die (it seems to be the only one that misses), Red is a damage booster, Yellow is a Power Die, and then defense dice. You no longer have the subtle differences between Melee/Ranged/Magic, it's just Attack.

-shnar
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Ian McCarthy
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I thought that Red looked like it was for melee damage, Blue for ranged damage, leaving yellow as the "booster" die.

In the preview image of the first scenario, both of the Ranged weapons use a combination of Blue and Yellow with what looks like different surge effects. The Dwarf has an axe that seems to only use one Red die, however.
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Aswin Agastya
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KenToad wrote:
I thought that Red looked like it was for melee damage, Blue for ranged damage, leaving yellow as the "booster" die.

In the preview image of the first scenario, both of the Ranged weapons use a combination of Blue and Yellow with what looks like different surge effects. The Dwarf has an axe that seems to only use one Red die, however.


If so, there will be an X on the red die.

Red + Red for brutal damage but less accurate melee attack.
Red + Yellow for finesse melee attack.

Blue + Yellow for ranged attack.
Blue + Red for hand cannon.

Yellow + Yellow for magic attack.

The game comes with less dice and stat numbers seem to be smaller, so it's not surprising if we'll be rolling fewer dice. The subtler damage difference may depend on the hero. The dwarf always score 1 extra damage for example.
 
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Proto Persona
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Sevej wrote:
KenToad wrote:
I thought that Red looked like it was for melee damage, Blue for ranged damage, leaving yellow as the "booster" die.

In the preview image of the first scenario, both of the Ranged weapons use a combination of Blue and Yellow with what looks like different surge effects. The Dwarf has an axe that seems to only use one Red die, however.


If so, there will be an X on the red die.

Red + Red for brutal damage but less accurate melee attack.
Red + Yellow for finesse melee attack.

Blue + Yellow for ranged attack.
Blue + Red for hand cannon.

Yellow + Yellow for magic attack.

The game comes with less dice and stat numbers seem to be smaller, so it's not surprising if we'll be rolling fewer dice. The subtler damage difference may depend on the hero. The dwarf always score 1 extra damage for example.


If that is true then that would mean a magic attack can't miss?
 
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Aswin Agastya
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That's a speculation, but ranged magic attack can still miss if the range to target exceeds the total number on the dice. Also some faces don't have damage at all. So you can hit, but no damage. But you do trigger an effect.
 
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Scott Lewis
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shnar wrote:
You no longer have the subtle differences between Melee/Ranged/Magic, it's just Attack.

I'm not sure I agree. Even if there is only one base die, the subtle differences would come from the combination of supplemental dice that are used.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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sigmazero13 wrote:
shnar wrote:
You no longer have the subtle differences between Melee/Ranged/Magic, it's just Attack.

I'm not sure I agree. Even if there is only one base die, the subtle differences would come from the combination of supplemental dice that are used.


Which you had with the 1st ed green + yellow dice. The Red dice had more damage, the Blue had more range and the white had more surges, emphasising melee, range and magic. You don't get that here. You have *attack* and some ectra dice, not melee attack with extra dice.

No matter how you mix it, 2nd ed has less differences in attacks.

Also, the Yellow Die has already been said to be the Power Dice of 2ndthe ed (i.e. spend fatigue to add powe dice). It's not some "finese" die.

-shnar
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Scott Lewis
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shnar wrote:
Yellow dice have already been classified as "Power Dice" and I believe the game comes with 2 (though I may have been mistaken).

I've heard this a few times, and while I have no reason to disbelieve it, I can't seem to find where this classification was made; it doesn't seem to be in any of the articles as far as I can find.

Was it in an external article, a forum post by the designer, or something else that I just overlooked?
 
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Ian McCarthy
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Sevej wrote:
KenToad wrote:
I thought that Red looked like it was for melee damage, Blue for ranged damage, leaving yellow as the "booster" die.

In the preview image of the first scenario, both of the Ranged weapons use a combination of Blue and Yellow with what looks like different surge effects. The Dwarf has an axe that seems to only use one Red die, however.


If so, there will be an X on the red die.

Red + Red for brutal damage but less accurate melee attack.
Red + Yellow for finesse melee attack.

Blue + Yellow for ranged attack.
Blue + Red for hand cannon.

Yellow + Yellow for magic attack.

The game comes with less dice and stat numbers seem to be smaller, so it's not surprising if we'll be rolling fewer dice. The subtler damage difference may depend on the hero. The dwarf always score 1 extra damage for example.


Why so? The red die doesn't necessarily need an X. I thought X was only for Ranged attacks, indicating a complete miss, i.e. the X that we have seen on the blue die, which also has the highest numbers for Range.

Also, the items in the preview setup that look like magical weapons definitely use a combination of Blue and Yellow. I'm thinking that base melee is one Red Die and base ranged (Magic or otherwise, since this is Descent) uses Blue and Yellow, although there might be some even weaker weapons, like Daggers that only use the Blue die.

This would also seem to average out to dealing 1 wound on a defense roll of 2, all of which seems average in this purely speculative way.
 
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James Reynolds
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shnar wrote:


Which you had with the 1st ed green + yellow dice. The Red dice had more damage, the Blue had more range and the white had more surges, emphasising melee, range and magic. You don't get that here. You have *attack* and some ectra dice, not melee attack with extra dice.

No matter how you mix it, 2nd ed has less differences in attacks.

Also, the Yellow Die has already been said to be the Power Dice of 2ndthe ed (i.e. spend fatigue to add powe dice). It's not some "finese" die.

-shnar


Perhaps the red die has no 'X'. So a difference is a melee attack can never miss, just do a little or a lot of damage. That would be interesting. Get close and you know you can beat them down, but you have to spend the move to get there. If they are willing to have attacks that can't miss that changes the game and the variance of attacks.

In Doom I always hated how some of the more powerful weapons actually had twice the chance of missing (ok an 11/36 instead of 1/6 so not exactly). In D2E would be the same thing if red dice had an 'X'.
 
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Scott Lewis
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KenToad wrote:
I thought X was only for Ranged attacks, indicating a complete miss, i.e. the X that we have seen on the blue die, which also has the highest numbers for Range.

I'm not sure why only Ranged attacks would be able to miss; melee attacks should be able to miss, too.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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It doesn't look like the Red die is a melee die anymore. It's just the extra damage die. It does make attacking (a little) simpler, you always roll the blue and then some extra (red/yellow) and some defense.

-shnar
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Aswin Agastya
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Quote:
Why so? The red die doesn't necessarily need an X. I thought X was only for Ranged attacks, indicating a complete miss, i.e. the X that we have seen on the blue die, which also has the highest numbers for Range.

sigmazero13 wrote:
KenToad wrote:
I thought X was only for Ranged attacks, indicating a complete miss, i.e. the X that we have seen on the blue die, which also has the highest numbers for Range.

I'm not sure why only Ranged attacks would be able to miss; melee attacks should be able to miss, too.


Exactly. If the Dwarf's axe has only red die, it must have an X. Except if as James said it's a special feature of melee attack (never miss).
 
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