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Subject: Game length with three players? Difficulty for newer players? rss

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Hello all,

Endeavor is a game that has been on my radar for a while, however I have been hesitant about purchasing it due to play time. I know the play time is listed as 90 minutes, however I have often found that games with this stated length tend to go on for two hours or more.

My gaming group is usually three players, occasionally four, so I would like to hear from gamers how long their 3/4 player games typically last. I know that for a lot of people on BGG 90 minutes is a quick game, but our group usually has about 4 hours to game when we get together, so we prefer games that last about an hour so we can hopefully play four games in our night. Also, since each player has his own favorites, it helps to be able to play two or three different games in one night to try and please everyone.

Also, how heavy is the game for casual gamers? If someone is used to Dominion/TTR will they have a hard time coming to grips with Endeavor?

Thanks for reading.
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Tim Royal
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Erratik wrote:
Hello all,

Endeavor is a game that has been on my radar for a while, however I have been hesitant about purchasing it due to play time. I know the play time is listed as 90 minutes, however I have often found that games with this stated length tend to go on for two hours or more.

My gaming group is usually three players, occasionally four, so I would like to hear from gamers how long their 3/4 player games typically last. I know that for a lot of people on BGG 90 minutes is a quick game, but our group usually has about 4 hours to game when we get together, so we prefer games that last about an hour so we can hopefully play four games in our night. Also, since each player has his own favorites, it helps to be able to play two or three different games in one night to try and please everyone.

Also, how heavy is the game for casual gamers? If someone is used to Dominion/TTR will they have a hard time coming to grips with Endeavor?

Thanks for reading.


It'll be a bit of an adjustment time wise than the Dominion/TTR crowd is often used to. That said, it's not a four hour brain burner either.

I would suspect that if you're introducing this game to your gaming crowd, you would expect two hours, rather than 90 minutes. Subsequent games will bring that down quite a bit. Our two player games usually clock in at 60-75 minutes, but we're not really racing to finish, either.

If you do bring out Endeavor, and you have 4 hours, I'd expect to play one, maybe two other games, as this would fill half of that.

The reactions, by the way, of introducing this to my group that enjoys lighter fare (Dominion, King Me, Dice Town), was mixed. Not bad, not awesome, just 'reasonably satisfied'.

Either way, enjoy.

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Jason Clague
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Endeavor is one of my favourite games. I would not expect a game to go longer than 75 minutes. I think it is a good 'next step' after 'gateway' games like TTR. I have taught this game to my parents (who are pushing 70) and they coped with it fine.
One of the great things about this game is that it starts slow and builds up. You only have 3 buildings to choose from on your first turn, then only a maximum of two actions to choose from that turn.
The game then snowballs into an epic seventh round with many options to choose from.
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I don`t really mind if the first few games take longer, I am more concerned with the play time once we get the hang of it. Thank you for your responses, it will help me decide whether this is right for our group.
 
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ENEMY OF THE STATE

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Fantastic game, and not too difficult or too long.
 
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Brian Brokaw
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You can definitely learn the mechanics of this game with 3 people, but you won't experience the true competition (and challenge!) that makes this game shine until you play with 5 people.

Honestly, with the fixed size map, 3 players can choose to avoid each other in shipping lanes and the game devolves.

of course, the 5th player (from the starting player) in a 5-player game has very limited potential if everyone is playing equally.

so, to recap:
1. Try to play with 5 players
2. Don't be last player


 
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alan beaumont
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brokasaphasia wrote:
You can definitely learn the mechanics of this game with 3 people, but you won't experience the true competition (and challenge!) that makes this game shine until you play with 5 people.

The first point is true. The game is probably best learned with 3, because there is too much elbow room for truly cut throat play.
As for 5 players it is certainly good, but not necessarily better than with 4 and not really a good experience for raw recruits amongst veterans.
Something like Lancaster is better with 3, but it won't fit your time constraints.
 
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misteralan wrote:
brokasaphasia wrote:
You can definitely learn the mechanics of this game with 3 people, but you won't experience the true competition (and challenge!) that makes this game shine until you play with 5 people.

The first point is true. The game is probably best learned with 3, because there is too much elbow room for truly cut throat play.
As for 5 players it is certainly good, but not necessarily better than with 4 and not really a good experience for raw recruits amongst veterans.
Something like Lancaster is better with 3, but it won't fit your time constraints.


I think most of our plays of this would be with three players, so it is a little disappointing to hear that it doesn't shine as much with that number. The fact is, we will never have five players in all likelyhood, and even four is a rare event, so the three player game is really my focus.

I must ask though, why don't you feel Lancaster would fit our time constraints? The BGG entry lists game length at 60 minutes. Is this one of those cases where the game company fudges the play time in order to attract more players?

Also, just to be clear, my play group are actually not "casual". We are all old TCG players and we have played a variety of games since getting into board gaming, though nothing too heavy due to the time issues. The reason I mention teaching to casual gamers is in case I want to introduce the game to people outside our playgroup to try and rope them in.

Thanks again guys.
 
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alan beaumont
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We happy few
Erratik wrote:
I must ask though, why don't you feel Lancaster would fit our time constraints?

I'm not sure that I've played it 3 player more than once, but I was surprised to find that the decisions and competition didn't simplify. I think the reason for this is that new knights enter the game at pretty much the same rate as only the castle reinforcements diminish with the number of players.

Players therefore acquire knights quicker than usual (there are more per player available), get more actions earlier and soon be on each others toes as usual.

With only 3 players I find a temptation to try to fine tune each move because there are only two other plans to thwart and it seems more manageable, so I found I was more prone to the odd outburst of AP, rather than the fatalistic hit-and-hope of 5 player. I'd give it an hour and a twenty compared to Endeavor's hour.
 
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Brian Brokaw
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Erratik wrote:
I think most of our plays of this would be with three players, so it is a little disappointing to hear that it doesn't shine as much with that number. The fact is, we will never have five players in all likelyhood, and even four is a rare event, so the three player game is really my focus.

I really think you will be disappointed with Endeavor with only 3 players. In some games the players may work together to open colonies for area control, but in many games the players will choose to avoid each other and the game will devolve to the point where players will always race to claim shipping buildings. I know many people will disagree with me on this, but I believe it to be true.

I really like Endeavor. It is a "9" on my ratings. But my group only breaks it out if we have 5 players.

Have you tried Hansa Teutonica? or Goa? Those games are definitely not really similar to Endeavor, but they have tech trees kinda like Endeavor. Also, Hansa Teutonica plays in 1.5 hours when you are getting the feel for it, but after several plays you can sit down and zoom through it in 45 minutes.
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Todd Kauk
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misteralan wrote:
brokasaphasia wrote:
You can definitely learn the mechanics of this game with 3 people, but you won't experience the true competition (and challenge!) that makes this game shine until you play with 5 people.

The first point is true. The game is probably best learned with 3, because there is too much elbow room for truly cut throat play.
As for 5 players it is certainly good, but not necessarily better than with 4 and not really a good experience for raw recruits amongst veterans.
Something like Lancaster is better with 3, but it won't fit your time constraints.


3 player Lancaster clocks in about 60 minutes...so I'm not sure if that's too short or too long!
 
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