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Subject: Persuit rss

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Daniel Sundström
Sweden
Bollnäs
Hälsingland
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I just read through the rules for the new Jumbo version of Stratego and it says (translated from Swedish):

"It is also not allowed to follow one or more pieces all the time. If this happens (and for more than two squares) the attacker must stop."

Does this mean the following: if I want to attack my opponents piece and he retreats one square, I can move my piece one square towards him. If he retreats one more square I can move one square closer. If he retreats for a third time however, I am no longer allowed to move my piece closer towards him? Can I move another piece towards my opponents? If I persue my opponents piece with two or more pieces of my own, can I persue that piece "all the time" just as long as I move my pieces alternatly?
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Nick Case
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I have to say I've played Stratego for many years and I have never encountered this rule nor do I understand the need for it. Not being allowed to follow 'one or more pieces' is a rule where the terms need to be properly defined and as it stands means that you can't move one piece more than two times in succession if the preceeding player moves their same piece more than twice on a similar course. What is the definition of 'follow'? Does this imply a proximity between the two ('or more') pieces, or could they be on opposite sides of the board? Am I following you if I adopt a parallel course? What if my piece can move further/ faster than your (Scout)?

This also prevents a General chasing its quarry into a bombed corner or similar trap which is a perfectly valid tactic.

IMHO this new rule is a complete nonsense. There is no scenario where two pieces are engaged in an endless persuit around the board because the object is to capture the flag. If someone can create a situation that doesn't involve a game in stalemate anyway I'd like to see it.
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Derry Salewski
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. . . give a ship.
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Anything more than a couple hundred dollars per suit is more than I'm willing to pay!
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Alejandro Lizarraga
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I agree that this rule makes no sense at all. They are trying to fix something that is not broken.

There is already a rule that prevents a piece from moving back and forth between the same 2 squares more than 2 times. This one makes more sense since it prevents a player from escaping indefinitely from its persecutor by just moving between the same 2 squares.

Now, about this new 'chasing' rule, it is a completely different story. Chasing pieces is part of the game strategy and even bluffing can be done when at it. You do this all the time, when trying to force your opponent piece to reveal, or when pushing the enemy Marshal in position to be captured by the spy.

Also, remember that there is an alternative way to win if you happen to be unable to capture the enemy's flag, which is by leaving your opponent with no movable pieces on the board. This rule does effectively prevent this from being accomplished.

The only scenario when I can think that a persecution can extend indefinitely is when a player has one single moving piece left in the board with his flag surrounded by bombs and the opponent has run out of bombers already. In this very particular case, the tournament rules concede a draw game, but I think only after completing two full circles around the board.

IMHO, I'd say to ignore this rule, as I believe somebody with no real understanding of the game made it up, and it is not well tested, nor even well defined.
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Los 28
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Dansun,
I agree with the others. I have never heard of the rule that you are describing. And if this rule does exist in your official set of rules, then I also advise that you ignore (remove) it.

I'm wondering, if just maybe, that you (or your friends or family) may have "translated" (from English-to-Swedish, or vise-versa) another rule and made an error in the translation process.

There is an official rule that reads as follows: "Pieces cannot be moved back and forth between the same 2 squares in 3 consecutive turns."
Could this possibly be the rule that may have been translated in error ?
This rule generally comes into play when a player's piece has been "cornered" by the opponent, and both players repeatedly keep moving their pieces side-to-side, to try to initiate an attack and to evade an attack. So this rule basically says that the player that is trying to evade must stop, and allow the opponent to attack the piece he is pursuing.

Good luck and happy gaming.
meeple

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Daniel Sundström
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Los28 wrote:
I'm wondering, if just maybe, that you (or your friends or family) may have "translated" (from English-to-Swedish, or vise-versa) another rule and made an error in the translation process.

There is an official rule that reads as follows: "Pieces cannot be moved back and forth between the same 2 squares in 3 consecutive turns."
Could this possibly be the rule that may have been translated in error ?

No, this is the exact wording of the rule as it is written in Swedish. The rule you're refering to (called the 3set rule in my rulebook) is written just above the rule I was quoting in my original post, so there's no missunderstanding here. It covers the moving back and forth a maximum of three times and then it explains how you cannot follow one or more pieces for more than two turns. But it it seems that my gut instinct of ignoring this rule is the correct one as all of you can't understand the rule either.
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Sven Fallenius
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Quote from the rules presented at Jumbo's web site:
Quote:
You may not continuously move a piece back and forth between the same two fields. The limit here is set at three moves. It is important then to determine which player began moving to and fro. This player has
to stop first too, and this could lead to losing an important piece. The rule is known as the ‘two field’ moves rule.

You may also not continuously pursue one or more of your opponent’s pieces. If this happens (and extends across more than two fields) the aggressor must stop this at once.

http://www.jumbo.eu/media/products/assets/manuals/e902a0fa-6...
(This particular rule is found at page 19 of 36 in the pdf-file)

The Dutch text (page 5 of 36) states it this way:
Quote:
Je mag met een speelstuk niet ononderbroken tussen twee velden heen en weer blijven schuiven. Het mag niet meer dan 3 keer. Het is belangrijk vast te stellen welke speler met het heen en weer schuiven
is begonnen. Deze moet er namelijk als eerste mee ophouden en dit kan belangrijk stukverlies tot gevolg hebben. Deze regel heet de 2 velden regel.

Je mag ook niet voortdurend achter één of meer vijandelijk stuk aanzitten. Als dit gebeurt (en over meer dan twee velden) dan moet de aanvaller er mee ophouden.


I really don't understand Dutch much, but when I use google translate to translate this Dutch rule to Swedish or English, it seems as if the Dutch rule (which I suppose is the original?) means something else. Could it be that you cannot "hide" behind an enemy piece (of lower rank, or a bomb I suppose), and circle around it when a stronger enemy is trying to catch you from the other side? Just a guess though...

And, to make this issue even more complicated: the German rules seem to describe the situation even better, but my German is not good enough to really understand what is meant.

I suppose it all adds up to this: comparing the rule sets of many different languages, might solve this rules issue.
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Alejandro Lizarraga
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Fomalhaut wrote:
I suppose it all adds up to this: comparing the rule sets of many different languages, might solve this rules issue.


I completely agree with you in that comparing all languages versions of the rule can give us a more exact understanding of what they really meant by this rule.

However, IMHO such a rule is not needed and my advice is again to just ignore it and stick to the classic Stratego rules which are very clear and have been well defined for several years.

http://www.hasbro.com/common/instruct/Stratego.PDF

And if you are even pickier, you can then just stick to the official Stratego tournament rules that you already found!

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/789596/stratego-tournament

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Dansun wrote:
Los28 wrote:
I'm wondering, if just maybe, that you (or your friends or family) may have "translated" (from English-to-Swedish, or vise-versa) another rule and made an error in the translation process.

There is an official rule that reads as follows: "Pieces cannot be moved back and forth between the same 2 squares in 3 consecutive turns."
Could this possibly be the rule that may have been translated in error ?

No, this is the exact wording of the rule as it is written in Swedish. The rule you're refering to (called the 3set rule in my rulebook) is written just above the rule I was quoting in my original post, so there's no missunderstanding here. It covers the moving back and forth a maximum of three times and then it explains how you cannot follow one or more pieces for more than two turns. But it it seems that my gut instinct of ignoring this rule is the correct one as all of you can't understand the rule either.


Think 3-fold repetition in chess. That is the aim of the rule, I suppose, to avoid that.
 
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