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Struggle of Empires» Forums » General

Subject: Incomplete rules after so many years... rss

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Jerome Cormier
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About ten years ago, I rediscovered boardgames through Struggle of Empires. Back then, I was used to amateurish rulebooks from the '80-'90s and was ready to negotiate rules during a game. But now that I played many recent games (and read lots a rulebooks and errata on BGG), I just can't explain myself why there isn't any updated rulebook for this game. Each time we play, we find a new unclear situation, and the FAQ(s) often contradict themselves. I understand that houserules are a common solution, but it ask for lot of experience with the game which is not a simple affair with such a long, long game.

Last game, litigious rules were the cause of tension within my group, a situation no one wanted to re-experience. I find difficult to just abandon a game that began a real love for boardgames, but I will not jeopardize a gaming day (and friendly gathering) for a vague souvenir.

Before I just quit playing SoE: Is there any unofficial ruleset anywhere that covers all, or almost all gaming aspects in a consistent matter?
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Moshe Callen
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I've not had this experience. What rules did you find were not covered?
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Ken Dilloo
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What? You make with the funny stuff?
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whac3 wrote:
I've not had this experience. What rules did you find were not covered?


It is a meaty game, with a matching rule-set, but it seems everything is covered there, or in the FAQs. Might be my favorite FAQs, btw. That line from Martin about extorting money to not attack is priceless.

Anything specific?
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-=[Ran Over]=-
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Have you tried Rewritten SoE?
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Jerome Cormier
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Quote:
Have you tried Rewritten SoE?


Yes! Thanks for this rewriting! It's the ruleset I send to new players. Very useful!
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Jerome Cormier
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Thank you all, for your prompt reactions!

Ken Dilloo wrote:
It is a meaty game, with a matching rule-set, but it seems everything is covered there, or in the FAQs.


First, I wan't to clarify that I don't think that it's a matter of rules complexity. Be sure that I don't fear meaty games or ones that might have a bit to much chrome for elegance. I also believe that the FAQ is great, while it's sheer size seems to support the claim for a new, clearer rulebook.

whac3 wrote:
I've not had this experience. What rules did you find were not covered?


I recognize that I should have wrote this post after a recent game so I would have had an actual (unusual) example instead of an abstract critique.

Yet , there's one major aspect of the game that seems incomplete even without an actual game at hand: the 20 + unrest revolution. The rulebook says that the situation should be revealed at end game. Yet the FAQ says immediately as 20 unrest is reached and offers a houserule to continue without the loosing player.

I think that a situation as critical as this one ; one that usually happens after about 4 hours of play, with up to 7 different players (experiences and strategies) of the game, should be made much more clearer. There should be an explanation of the reason of the revolution (game-play wise not vaguely historical). This is especially necessary as the unrest is an hidden information, which prevent players to plan according to other nations internal situation.
 
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Ken Dilloo
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Without looking back at the FAQs, I believe it says to play the unrest either way. I like it being hidden until the end, but go ahead and play it the way that works best for your group. This is why the FAQs gives that option.

Seems like you are trying very hard to make an issue, where there is none.
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alan beaumont
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Still crazy after so many years...
bandini wrote:

Ken Dilloo wrote:
It is a meaty game, with a matching rule-set, but it seems everything is covered there, or in the FAQs.


whac3 wrote:
I've not had this experience. What rules did you find were not covered?

Yet, there's one major aspect of the game that seems incomplete even without an actual game at hand: the 20 + unrest revolution. The rulebook says that the situation should be revealed at end game. Yet the FAQ says immediately as 20 unrest is reached and offers a houserule to continue without the losing player.


It is unfortunate that the FAQ were not compiled by Martin Wallace in their totality, because the unrest 'solution' is clearly at odds with the unambiguous rule.

There is another. At the UK games expo last May (2011) I had a conversation with Mr Wallace about Struggle of Empires, because I am always hopeful a revised and pimped version will appear.

Anyway my pet peeve is the Naval Combat rules which in the rulebook specifies you need your own fleet present to contest naval advantage and in the FAQ is 'clarified' to mean that you don't and an ally will do, apparantly with the blessing of Mr Wallace. Anyway I cornered him on this and he says the printed rule is the correct one, so make of that what you will. I will only say that eliminating the diplomacy aspect of getting an allied fleet into action eliminates many minutes from the game and enhances the advantages of building a strong navy, so I know which version I will be continuing to play.
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Jerome Cormier
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misteralan wrote:
It is unfortunate that the FAQ were not compiled by Martin Wallace in their totality.


That's the heart of the problem.

I understand common sense answers like "play it the way that works best for your group". While true, the problem I'm pointing at is precisely that negotiating "one best solution" during a (long an competitive) game can be a delicate matter - nothing guarantees that you'll find seven negociation-expert-geeks at the table this day.
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