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Subject: Dark Ages rss

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Aaron Cooper
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BaconSnake wrote:
The thing about a card that "cares about the trash" is that the ability that depends on the trash can't be the only part of the card, or else it will be useless in games without trashing (same as cards with "when trashed" abilities). Preferably, a card that cares about the trash would also have a trash ability itself, so that the part that depends on the trash pile will always do something. Another thing about it is that it probably can't depend too much on the size of the trash pile, because again, that can vary drastically depending on the kingdom. (I like the Citychapel idea, though.) In fact, there are a lot of delicate potential problems that need to be kept in mind when designing a card that fiddles with the trash pile. I'm interested to see how the developers dealt with those problems.


Hammerite wrote:
The text itself is absolute nonsense though :-)

"You can drop your garbage anywhere"?!? Wonder what that means


I think the trashing will be present in the game with the Shelter card. Think about it. The set's flavour text talks about being in a ravine likely living in a shelter and you're able to throw garbage anywhere. We're wondering how you'll be able to use these new cards with trash-related effects and my money is on the Shelter to solve that problem.

Having the Shelter be able to trash cards and be pulled into the game based on other Dark Ages cards that require it also solves the question "When do we use Estates or Shelters?"

The other flavour text that has me thinking is this line: "In your free time you've taken up begging. Begging is brilliant conceptually, but tricky in practice since no one has any money. You beg twigs from the villagers, and they beg them back, but no one really seems to come out ahead."

That sounds a lot like the Thief card (stealing money from other players) so maybe there's some sort of begging card where other players have the option of giving you cards or money. Perhaps this card also allows you to trash some or all of the cards you receive.
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Mike Miller

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I think you all are taking the flavor text a little too seriously...
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Adrian Brooks
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Hammerite wrote:
The text itself is absolute nonsense though :-)

"You can drop your garbage anywhere"?!? Wonder what that means


How about:

Everyone gets their own trash pile. Each player can drop their trash in any pile. Some cards care about particular piles.
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Blake Stetson
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Hammerite wrote:
I wonder whether the Trash pile will be ordered or not. I know that at the moment it is an unordered stack of cards, but that may only be because so far there have been no cards for which the content of the Trash was important. The possible things that might be done with the Trash depend in part upon whether it matters what order the cards are put in.


Hopefully this isn't the case. They tried a mechanic like this in Magic: the Gathering that cared about the order of 'graveyard'. It did not go over well. But, on the other hand, Magic is a game where people often reorganize/care about the contents (not order usually) of their graveyard as there are many decks that abuse it. It's common to see a player for example, count the creatures in their graveyard and put them on top. Dominion, of course, is not this way. Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing.... Pardon me, I'm talking in circles.
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Philip Eve
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cooperaa wrote:

Hammerite wrote:
The text itself is absolute nonsense though :-)

"You can drop your garbage anywhere"?!? Wonder what that means



Slow Dog wrote:

Hammerite wrote:
The text itself is absolute nonsense though :-)

"You can drop your garbage anywhere"?!? Wonder what that means



I did not post that. Someone else did.
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Derek Whaley
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I believe it was
Jann Beckers
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Not sure why that got screwed up.
 
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AJ Newhausen
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happycannibal wrote:
Hopefully this isn't the case. They tried a mechanic like this in Magic: the Gathering that cared about the order of 'graveyard'. It did not go over well. But, on the other hand, Magic is a game where people often reorganize/care about the contents (not order usually) of their graveyard as there are many decks that abuse it. It's common to see a player for example, count the creatures in their graveyard and put them on top.

I think it's the other way around. For the longest time, the order of a graveyard in Magic was fixed. There are cards going back to Alpha where graveyard order matters (Nether Shadow).

It wasn't until a year or two ago that players were allowed to order their graveyard as they wished, and only in formats where none of the old cards that rely on order are legal.
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James King
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What Comes After The "Dark Ages" Is Even Bet-- Er, *Bitterer*!

happycannibal wrote:
Cool, can't wait for this one. I love the shelters thing!

"Dominion: Dark Ages" is soooooo yesterday's news!

I myself am awaiting the next expansion after that called "Dominion: The Grapes of Wrath".

> Excerpt from the description: Times have grown even harder as the Dark Ages slog onward. To save on money, you've moved out of your luxurious ravine and into a discarded, rickety, old dung-hauler wagon. Oh well, after having lived in that sewer-laden ravine, you realize you didn't like that old gulch of a gully anyway. After all, when it rained, it always flooded and never at a reasonable hour. And if it wasn't for the locals dumping their garbage, it was travelers stopping atop the bridge to relieve themselves, or sometimes both would come at once, and there wouldn't be enough time to dodge the onslaught. Compared to the ravine, this old dung-hauler wagon is great; you get lots of sun, and with the tarp over the top, you can park practically wherever you want under the great blue sky or in the shade of a grove of trees without fear of being pelted by trash, feces and/or urine.

In the meantime, you've graduated from begging to flim-flamming. Selling bogus holy relics is brilliant conceptually, but tricky in practice since local friars have been known to organize posses. You sell fraudulant holy relics to naive villagers, and others come clamoring for more, but watch your step: Mustn't alert the local clergy by selling too many identical bogus holy relics in the same parish.

That's just how complicated life gets sometimes: You're quietly flim-flamming people, minding your own business, when suddenly, friars of the local and surrounding parishes have been alerted to your presence, and it's all you can do to change your group's modus operandi before their posses catch up with you all. Still, as you and your entourage go legit and incognito as wandering fruit pickers, you must somehow triumph over the adversity of the downtrodden by avoiding those locales where the Grapes of Wrath are stored, or at least do slightly better than everyone else at scamming villagers while wending your meandering way to a relatively unmolested meager existence as itinerant fruit-pickers.

"Dominion: The Grapes of Wrath" is the eighth addition to the game of Dominion. It contains 300 cards but is not a standalone game. It adds 28 new Kingdom cards to Dominion, plus new bad cards you give to other players (Relics), new cards to replace starting Shelters (Wayward Wagons), and cards you can get only via specific other cards. The central themes are bluffing, stealing, escaping, and downgrading others' cards. There are cards that do something when downgraded, cards that aid and abet stealing, cards that downgrade themselves, and ways to downgrade other cards.


___________________________________________________


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Kev Hadman
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it is funny. with the description of cornucopia, I thought it would be a GREAT expansion. I love variety and it just feeds into my way of playing. With this, I am dreading it. Trashing has ALWAYS been my weakness. Whether it be develop, remake, or chapel, I am never comfortable with trashing strategies and lose as a result. I am curious, but kind of dreading it too.
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Derek Whaley
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Sheer speculation about the components in the box:

290 Normal Kingdom Cards (29 unique cards)
72 Victory Kingdom Cards (6 unique cards)
18 Shelter Cards (replaces starting Estates for up to 6 players)
50 Ruins Cards (replaces the Curse deck for up to 6 players)
30 Upgrade Cards (new card type; not part of kingdom piles)
35 Randomizer Cards (one for each unique kingdom card)
5 Blank Cards (to bring total up to 500)
------------------------
500 Total Cards

Further speculation: I bet that the "something new" in the Base Cards expansion is the addition of either or both Shelter cards and Ruins cards. Both are considered base cards akin to Potion, Colony, or Platinum (all included in Base Cards expansion). I bet we'll get to see a preview of these cards in Base Cards before they release with Dark Ages. However, I bet there will only be 12 Shelter cards and 30 Ruin cards, since Base Cards is only intended for 4 players. That means there will be 8 (more) blank cards included in that set.
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Matt E
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Here are my guesses about the components in the box:

320 Non-Victory Kingdom Cards (32 unique cards)
36 Victory Kingdom Cards (3 unique cards)
35 Randomizer Cards
60 Ruins cards (enough for two simultaneous games of 4 players each)
8 Shelter cards (enough for two simultaneous games of 4 players each)
40 Non-Kingdom cards (can only be obtained through specific other cards)
1 Blank Card
-----------------
500 Total Cards

I believe that the "something new" in the Base Cards expansion is neither Shelter nor Ruins cards. I'm betting that these cards already have card art.
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Wei-Hwa Huang
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BaconSnake wrote:
I'm interested to see how the developers dealt with those problems.


Naw, it's not that interesting. The developers found broken stuff, complained to Donald, Donald made some changes, stuff got much less broken. Kinda boring
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Carl Bussema
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Do we have even a vague release date, like "Summer" (which I define as June - August, official calendars notwithstanding) or "Q3" (July August September) or something? I co-administer a Dominion league and we're looking to have our finals in early August... would be interesting to throw all new cards at the players.
 
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Donald X.
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InfoCynic wrote:
Do we have even a vague release date, like "Summer" (which I define as June - August, official calendars notwithstanding) or "Q3" (July August September) or something? I co-administer a Dominion league and we're looking to have our finals in early August... would be interesting to throw all new cards at the players. :)

No earlier than GenCon, no later than Essen.

The plan was GenCon, but I don't know yet if it will make it.
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Carl Bussema
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Big thumbs up for the straightforward and fast response. Can't buy that kind of service.
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Jason Clague
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donaldx wrote:
... no later than Essen.


Excellent. Now I just need a map to the RGG stand and my Essen preparations will be complete
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Mark Judd
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donaldx wrote:
InfoCynic wrote:
Do we have even a vague release date, like "Summer" (which I define as June - August, official calendars notwithstanding) or "Q3" (July August September) or something? I co-administer a Dominion league and we're looking to have our finals in early August... would be interesting to throw all new cards at the players.

No earlier than GenCon, no later than Essen.

The plan was GenCon, but I don't know yet if it will make it.

For those that aren't aware of the dates of those conventions, this gives us a two-month window for the prospective release date.

GenCon is August 16-19, 2012
Essen is October 18-21, 2012
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Jason Hinchliffe
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cooperaa wrote:
BaconSnake wrote:
The thing about a card that "cares about the trash" is that the ability that depends on the trash can't be the only part of the card, or else it will be useless in games without trashing (same as cards with "when trashed" abilities). Preferably, a card that cares about the trash would also have a trash ability itself, so that the part that depends on the trash pile will always do something. Another thing about it is that it probably can't depend too much on the size of the trash pile, because again, that can vary drastically depending on the kingdom. (I like the Citychapel idea, though.) In fact, there are a lot of delicate potential problems that need to be kept in mind when designing a card that fiddles with the trash pile. I'm interested to see how the developers dealt with those problems.


Hammerite wrote:
The text itself is absolute nonsense though :-)

"You can drop your garbage anywhere"?!? Wonder what that means


I think the trashing will be present in the game with the Shelter card. Think about it. The set's flavour text talks about being in a ravine likely living in a shelter and you're able to throw garbage anywhere. We're wondering how you'll be able to use these new cards with trash-related effects and my money is on the Shelter to solve that problem.

Having the Shelter be able to trash cards and be pulled into the game based on other Dark Ages cards that require it also solves the question "When do we use Estates or Shelters?"

The other flavour text that has me thinking is this line: "In your free time you've taken up begging. Begging is brilliant conceptually, but tricky in practice since no one has any money. You beg twigs from the villagers, and they beg them back, but no one really seems to come out ahead."

That sounds a lot like the Thief card (stealing money from other players) so maybe there's some sort of begging card where other players have the option of giving you cards or money. Perhaps this card also allows you to trash some or all of the cards you receive.


I think you're probably bang on about the Shelter handling some form of trashing ability.
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