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Subject: E-Version of Spielbox Magazine now available in the Geek Store! rss

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Tony
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chaddyboy_2000 wrote:
andylatto wrote:
lfisher wrote:
andylatto wrote:
Just wondering why this announcement is in the "sponsored promotions" forum. It isn't a sponsored promotion; it's an advertisement for a product being sold through BGG. I pay a supporters fee partly so I don't have to see ads; I'm sad if BGG has now replaced the "contests" forum with a "sponsored promotions and ads for things we want to advertise" forum.


If you paid you can
Block Contests and Promotions module

I don't understand what you are saying.

I want to hear about contests and promotions, so I subscribe to new threads in the "sponsored promotions" forum.

But I don't want to see threads like this one, which are not contests or promotions, but advertisements for a product being sold through BGG.

As long as the moderators allow threads to be started in the "sponsored promotions" forum that are not sponsored promotions, I see no way to distinguish these.

Stuff for sale via the Geek Store is a sponsored promotion, as BGG is making money off the sale of these items in exchange for the exposure generated for the product. Just like we're making money off from contests in exchange for the exposure generated. This is why Geek Store activity is placed in the Sponsored Promotions module.

In general, these posts will be pretty few and far between compared to the contest-related activity! Lots of contests on the way!


File this thread under the heading "Why did I get out of bed today?"
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Richard Keiser

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Yes, friendly debate is the point of your posts.

Reads more like typical crowd-whine to me.

Dale-not-Chip wrote:


Pro tip: If you don't like reading friendly debate don't read message boards.

darthhugo wrote:
Pro-Tip:

Don't buy it if you think its too expensive. If enough people align with your view, the price may eventually drop.

Dale-not-Chip wrote:
BaBang wrote:
Dale-not-Chip wrote:
I just ordered a real copy for around 11 bucks and I'm getting the dungeon pets promo. How is 9 bucks, no shipping, no bonus, no printing, no extra work except for running the copy already on their computer though adobe acrobat not greed.


Greed?

For some reason, I find it silly when people ascribe human emotions to business practices. The reason why that price was chosen wasn't based on some idea of fairness... it was chosen because a marketing committee believed that price would maximize their product. If a company sells a product for a fare price that allows them to stay in business the product will do well and the company will not be concidered greedy. If they sell a lesser product for the premium price. That is greed.

By calling companies greedy... it is almost as people are trying to guilt-trip some legal entity into lowering its prices. It is just silly.


Nope. Busnisess and their decisions are made by people. You can pretend it was made to maximize their product but it was made to maximize their profit.

Not saying I want a third party to step in. But real people chose to use bgg to deliver their product you can bet real people are gonna monitor its reception. If it is bought in droves then they wont care what we say. But if it just sits there gathering digital cobwebs. They will read and realize that it wasn't because we dislike the product but it was the price and procieved cost ratio that kept us away. Or in other words greed.
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Ed
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It costs $9 for the same reason a box of cardboard and wood costs $50. The publisher's biggest expense is, I'm guessing, the salaries of its writers, photographers, editors, etc. -- not paper and ink. So distributing the publication electronically doesn't save the publisher that much money, although it reduces the perceived value of its product.
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Troy
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eddy_sterckx wrote:

I checked it - a one-year 7-issue subscription of the paper version is 45 euro - or 9 euro/issue

Now they're asking the *exact* same amount for the pdf version - without the goodies - I really like to know who thinks this is a good deal as I have some prime swampland for sale.


FYI.

9 Euros does not equal 9 US dollars. Though it is very close.

At this point 9 Euros = 11.17 US dollars.

I agree with you that it's not much of a drop in price.

With that said - the same amount of work goes into the articles than in the print version. The only savings I would see would be no printing costs (for the magazine or the promos) and no shipping costs.

I'll stick with the paper version when I want it.
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Burster of Bubbles, Destroyer of Dreams.
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There are three things that a purchaser of the hardcopy gets:

(1) The intellectual property of the articles.
(2) The physical glossy paper
(3) The promo items

I suspect that many purchasers of the hardcopy magazine value (3) more than (1) and (2) combined.
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Warren Adams
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hskrfn822 wrote:
When did sarcasm become unacceptable?
Sarcasm rarely, if ever, works in print because you are relying on the reader to guess it is sarcasm.

You guessed right, he guessed wrong. Or he guessed right, you guessed wrong. How do we know without input from the writer?

That's why sarcasm rarely, if ever, works in print.
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Richard Morris
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ed95005 wrote:
It costs $9 for the same reason a box of cardboard and wood costs $50. The publisher's biggest expense is, I'm guessing, the salaries of its writers, photographers, editors, etc. -- not paper and ink. So distributing the publication electronically doesn't save the publisher that much money, although it reduces the perceived value of its product.
But in this case, those are already sunk costs for the paper version of the magazine. If this was an electronic-only mag, then you would be right. But unless their contracts trigger extra payments for the writers when the mag is produced in another medium, the manpower costs are a modest amount for the physical process of creating the PDF, and then overheads for managing distribution and subscriptions, plus any costs in promoting just the electronic version.
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Burster of Bubbles, Destroyer of Dreams.
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AnnuverScotinExile wrote:
ed95005 wrote:
It costs $9 for the same reason a box of cardboard and wood costs $50. The publisher's biggest expense is, I'm guessing, the salaries of its writers, photographers, editors, etc. -- not paper and ink. So distributing the publication electronically doesn't save the publisher that much money, although it reduces the perceived value of its product.
But in this case, those are already sunk costs for the paper version of the magazine. If this was an electronic-only mag, then you would be right. But unless their contracts trigger extra payments for the writers when the mag is produced in another medium, the manpower costs are a modest amount for the physical process of creating the PDF, and then overheads for managing distribution and subscriptions, plus any costs in promoting just the electronic version.


Remember also that cheap PDFs may undercut sales of the paper version, which *does* heavily depend on economies of scale.
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Richard Morris
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Morganza wrote:
AnnuverScotinExile wrote:
ed95005 wrote:
It costs $9 for the same reason a box of cardboard and wood costs $50. The publisher's biggest expense is, I'm guessing, the salaries of its writers, photographers, editors, etc. -- not paper and ink. So distributing the publication electronically doesn't save the publisher that much money, although it reduces the perceived value of its product.
But in this case, those are already sunk costs for the paper version of the magazine. If this was an electronic-only mag, then you would be right. But unless their contracts trigger extra payments for the writers when the mag is produced in another medium, the manpower costs are a modest amount for the physical process of creating the PDF, and then overheads for managing distribution and subscriptions, plus any costs in promoting just the electronic version.


Remember also that cheap PDFs may undercut sales of the paper version, which *does* heavily depend on economies of scale.
Yup. I design and sell retail software, and we refer to that as a 'cannibalisation effect' (the opposite, where the introduction of a new product causes other products to go up in sales, is called a 'halo effect'). It takes sophisticated software, backed by decent data, to help you pitch the price correctly with all such things taken into account. I cannot imagine that they have any software to do that, let alone sophisticated stuff. This price was almost certainly done on gut feel alone.

But I still think it is too high ...
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Brendan McGuire
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shikosaki wrote:
royboy_9 wrote:

My god, it's been 2 years since I've lived in Canada, but do we Canadians really usually spell advertisements with a 'z'?


Ya about a year ago we changed everything that uzed to have the letter "s" near a vowel changed to a "z". It has really improved our zociety as a whole.


I can attest to this. They came down here about 100 years ago and tried it out on our beautiful state of Arisona. We never recovered. Luckily the new age hippie movement in Sedona was able to block them with their crystals and a resounding chorus of kumbaya. Although, I do have to admit Zedona does have a nice ring to it.

---

I’ve been enjoying this discussion. Unfortunately, since I’m not the market for this publication (meaning I had no interest in it before and don’t now), I don’t feel my opinion on the matter of the cost is worthy of inclusion. Instead I find this topic interesting because I work as a data analyst in a trade magazine company that until 5 years ago was only a print publisher. Now we are about 95% digital and have plans to go 100% digital in the next few years. So, I will comment on that to help along the discussion.

The cost for both the print and the digital is about the same. The costs that are saved on printing get used up mostly in man power on the digital issues. The reason is because of each magazine we do has its own unique web presence, and the frequency of our issues is now once a week instead of once a month (and use 3rd party distribution software that comes with a monthly fee that is comparable to what was paid in print distribution).

However the interesting thing is that our digital editions are FREE. How do we get away with this? Simple. Our advertisers eat the cost. You see, our digital editions are those super high tech PDFs on steroids. They have links that direct you to related articles on the web (also sponsored by the advertiser) as well as direct links to the advertiser’s website (and since these are trade magazines the ads are relevant to the article so they DO get clicked on). Unfortunately, I don’t know what our advertisers pay for this service. I do know our ad rate is higher, and we are making more money than we did when we were primarily print.

Anyway, sorry for the lengthy response. I just thought I’d put my own personal knowledge on the table. I’ve never seen Spielbox so I don’t know if they can do what we are doing. Also, we do a TON of different magazines. There are some pubs we do that are so successful that they carry the ones that are failing miserably.
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Jason Arnold
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shikosaki wrote:
royboy_9 wrote:
shikosaki wrote:
Tzer wrote:
That's why magazines usually need a different incentive to be successful - in this case the promos. Take that away and what's left?


Colorful pictures and advertizements. Isn't that why people purchase magazines??


My god, it's been 2 years since I've lived in Canada, but do we Canadians really usually spell advertisements with a 'z'?


Ya about a year ago we changed everything that uzed to have the letter "s" near a vowel changed to a "z". It has haz really improved our zociety as az a whole.


Fixed that for you. Az a fellow Canadian I felt it necezzary to dizplay the fixed verzion.
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Terry Bailey Sr.
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So if 9000 of us go in together for the $9 and then share the magazine. Just like a game group went in together to buy the hard copy and pass it around when each is done with it this could really be affordable.


****Notice****
I am not suggesting this should be done.
I was using absurdity to make a point.
***Notice****
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Lee Fisher
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royboy_9 wrote:
shikosaki wrote:
Tzer wrote:
That's why magazines usually need a different incentive to be successful - in this case the promos. Take that away and what's left?


Colorful pictures and advertizements. Isn't that why people purchase magazines??


My god, it's been 2 years since I've lived in Canada, but do we Canadians really usually spell advertisements with a 'z'?


I think you mean "zed".
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Jason Arnold
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lfisher wrote:
royboy_9 wrote:
shikosaki wrote:
Tzer wrote:
That's why magazines usually need a different incentive to be successful - in this case the promos. Take that away and what's left?


Colorful pictures and advertizements. Isn't that why people purchase magazines??


My god, it's been 2 years since I've lived in Canada, but do we Canadians really usually spell advertisements with a 'z'?


I think you mean "zed".


I azzure you it iz printed az a 'z'. Otherwize I'd have to type 'Yezed, you are correct zedir.'
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Philip
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I think either version is too expensive, so I wont be buying them. The magazine does look interesting. I don't see it much different than music, books, and video games. For the most part they are about the same digitally compared to their physical counterpart. Obviously it depends where you shop, sales, etc etc which will effect either side. Sometimes digital will be 10% cheaper, etc.

I guess my point is that I'll look for some sort of discount or promotion if they ever happen.
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Neil Christiansen
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I am about to order a 1-year subscription to the actual magazine.

If have several of the past issues and think they are well worth $10.50.

YMMV.
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rob van zyl
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eddy_sterckx wrote:
The problem for me is the price - $9 - I can get the printed version second-hand for that price.



I agree, $9 for a PDF mag is exorbitant. No sale here.
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Peter Hope-Jones
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I would have downloaded these straight away for up to $5 or so each, but I agree with everyone else that this pricing is crazy.

A real shame. shake
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Dale Moore
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Like most of the Print Dinosaurs Spielbox just dosn't understand computers in modern times.

Like it's been said above by many others. Paying basically full price for a pdf version is not what the majority of people will do.


But looking at their site. They also want to charge 15 euro extra to their yearly subscribers that already get it in hand.

Hopefully they will survive and figure the internet out.

I hear it's a good magazine. I get my first one soon. I ordered it for the Dungeon Pets Promo. If it's a fantastic Magazine and something that I will want to continue, I will get the physical copy for the approximately the same price.

If I wan't to keep it forever in PDF , I have a sheet fed scanner that I can do it myself in about 3 min.
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Brad McKenzie
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I agree. I like the magazine for the promos, but they've only had a couple that have interested me. I enjoyed their articles, but if I want to read up on games I will browse this site instead. I do wish Spielbox well, but will not be supporting them at this price in their current endeavor...
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Todd
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I still like hard-copy magazines and subscribe to several (including Spielbox). I prefer "real" newspapers as well. But that said, most magazines have the business sense to give real value to their hard-copy subscribers. For example most of the magazines (sports illustrated, ESPN, Car & Driver, Autoweek, etc) that I subscribe to give me a digital copy for FREE.

I enjoy reading Spielbox --a nice break from BGG computer time, I suppose. But Spielbox is making two mistakes here. 1. Charging far too much for the digital version. There is value in a hard-copy. Charging the same for something that is digital only makes little sense. 2. Charging hard-copy subscribers for the digital version. That should be a value-added benefit (along with the promos).

I would be stunned if their digital sales at this price point are significant.
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John Drake
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For those who are saying that online publications should be priced significantly lower than the printed versions (B/C there are no print or distribution costs)... how do you explain the success of the kindle?

The fact is, most of us have no interest in reading a book/article twice. And stacks of books/magazines are heavy. I think some people are grossly over-estimating the value of printed copies... especially something most of us will be throwing away in a few months.

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Dale Moore
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BaBang wrote:
For those who are saying that online publications should be priced significantly lower than the printed versions (B/C there are no print or distribution costs)... how do you explain the success of the kindle?

The fact is, most of us have no interest in reading a book/article twice. And stacks of books/magazines are heavy. I think some people are grossly over-estimating the value of printed copies... especially something most of us will be throwing away in a few months.



With Kindles ebooks ARE priced signifantly lower than the Hard copies. This is exactly one of the main reasons that the Kindle succeeds.

The Kindle proves my point that the printing and distribution costs are lower and thus should have a lower cost.

If they get the price right on the Spielbox I'll read it on my Kindle Fire.
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Jayson Stevens
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BaBang wrote:
I think some people are grossly over-estimating the value of printed copies... especially something most of us will be throwing away in a few months.


Digital copy: Costs for content, layout.
Physical copy: Costs for content, layout, production, printing and shipping.

Yet people get upset when they're the same price... wonder why?

Whether or not something is thrown away is irrelevant to a discussion of pricing.
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Dale Moore
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palmerkun wrote:
BaBang wrote:
I think some people are grossly over-estimating the value of printed copies... especially something most of us will be throwing away in a few months.


Digital copy: Costs for content, layout.
Physical copy: Costs for content, layout, production, printing and shipping.

Yet people get upset when they're the same price... wonder why?

Whether or not something is thrown away is irrelevant to a discussion of pricing.


Not only that. But in a pdf version the cost for content and layout is already paid by the print version.



Now if it was an interactive app version it would be a little different.
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