Recommend
31 
 Thumb up
 Hide
123 Posts
Prev «  1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » General Gaming

Subject: Is Table Top evil? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jayson Stevens
Canada
Surrey
British Columbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ajklotz wrote:
I'm a little sad to see this thread and find out it's not very popular, 'cause I thought it looked pretty fun. I just don't know if I know enough people I would actually want to play a game like this with.


Munchkin is insanely popular. It's just not popular on BoardGameGeek, where the vast majority of members prefer dry abstract "brain burning" games where the goal is to be 1% better than the next guy at collecting victory points.

Munchkin is thematic, random, features both cards and dice, and is about directly attacking other players. All of those things are considered BAD around here.

As for how popular it is? Some of the "most popular" games around here have only sold ten, maybe 20 thousand copies worldwide.
Munchkin, in comparison, has sold over 100 thousand copies IN THE LAST YEAR. It's 11 years old now.
And that's just for the original fantasy themed base set. That's excluding expansions and spinoffs like Space Munchkin and Zombie Munchkin which also sell in the thousands every month.

It's an extremely popular game. It's just not the kind of game people HERE like.
19 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
RJD
United States
Quad-Cities
Illinois
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Clive65 wrote:
I just watched the latest episode of Geek & Sundry's Table Top. Wil Wheaton introduces Munchkin. For a minute I actually wanted to play Munchkin!!!! This is the best it has ever looked!!!

Are there subliminal messages in the video? Be honest, how many of you gamers thought about revisiting Munchkin again? My respect for Wil Wheaton sunk to the depths of the ocean when he stated that Munchkin is his all time favourite game.

This show is evil...pure evil...must not play Munchkin...must not play Munchkin


Heh, If I can enjoy watching Wil and friends play Small World, Ticket To Ride, and Settlers of Catan without feeling the slightest urge to go play them, I think the rest of ya'll will survive seeing him play a game of Munchkin. Awesome episode by the way!
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
that Matt
United States
Toledo
Ohio
flag msg tools
I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
badge
I can feel bits of my brain falling away like wet cake.
mbmb
palmerkun wrote:
Munchkin is insanely popular. It's just not popular on BoardGameGeek, where the vast majority of members prefer dry abstract "brain burning" games where the goal is to be 1% better than the next guy at collecting victory points.

Munchkin is thematic, random, features both cards and dice, and is about directly attacking other players. All of those things are considered BAD around here.

As for how popular it is? Some of the "most popular" games around here have only sold ten, maybe 20 thousand copies worldwide.
Munchkin, in comparison, has sold over 100 thousand copies IN THE LAST YEAR. It's 11 years old now.
And that's just for the original fantasy themed base set. That's excluding expansions and spinoffs like Space Munchkin and Zombie Munchkin which also sell in the thousands every month.

It's an extremely popular game. It's just not the kind of game people HERE like.

mb



In other news, Twilight is the most second-most popular young adult series of the last decade twenty years.
13 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Brown
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
I don't hate Munchkin because it is a light game, I hate it because it is a long, light game.

It would have to be at least an hour shorter than it is for me to consider playing it again.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt B
United States
Cincinnati
Ohio
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
palmerkun wrote:

Munchkin is insanely popular. It's just not popular on BoardGameGeek, where the vast majority of members prefer dry abstract "brain burning" games where the goal is to be 1% better than the next guy at collecting victory points.

I really liked Munchkin when I was first introduced to it, back when I didn't realize how many games are out there. After playing a couple really long games, with players getting slightly upset at each other due to teaming up, I didn't like it so much any more. Also the way the rulebook is written is funny, but after playing other games I don't really like the inprecise nature of Munchkin's rules.

It's not that Munchkin doesn't have its place, it's just that it's not what most people on here are looking for. For BGG users who do like it, that's great! Enjoy it! It's not something that I really like anymore... and I'm not exactly a fan of dry, abstract euros either. I like games with some luck, some theme, but more strategy than Munchkin has to offer.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
RJD
United States
Quad-Cities
Illinois
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
tumorous wrote:
palmerkun wrote:
Munchkin is insanely popular. It's just not popular on BoardGameGeek, where the vast majority of members prefer dry abstract "brain burning" games where the goal is to be 1% better than the next guy at collecting victory points.

Munchkin is thematic, random, features both cards and dice, and is about directly attacking other players. All of those things are considered BAD around here.

As for how popular it is? Some of the "most popular" games around here have only sold ten, maybe 20 thousand copies worldwide.
Munchkin, in comparison, has sold over 100 thousand copies IN THE LAST YEAR. It's 11 years old now.
And that's just for the original fantasy themed base set. That's excluding expansions and spinoffs like Space Munchkin and Zombie Munchkin which also sell in the thousands every month.

It's an extremely popular game. It's just not the kind of game people HERE like.

mb



In other news, Twilight is the most popular young adult series of the last decade.


Um, no, I'm betting it's Harry Potter.

5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ralph T
United States
Signal Hill
California
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Anyone notice that the video reviewers tend to prefer more thematic and random games as opposed to drier Euros which rate the highest on BGG? Retired reviewers Castelli, Uvulabob and Scott Nicholson were notable exceptions.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
that Matt
United States
Toledo
Ohio
flag msg tools
I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
badge
I can feel bits of my brain falling away like wet cake.
mbmb
UnluckyNumber wrote:
Um, no, I'm betting it's Harry Potter.

Touché. I have amended.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott
New Zealand
Auckland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
JasonJ0 wrote:
It is this exact groupthink, unquestioned and unshakable, that I think is BGG's 2nd greatest failing.


And to help me put that into perspective, in your thinking the greatest failing of BGG is...?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J J
Australia
flag msg tools
blaecblaed wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
It is this exact groupthink, unquestioned and unshakable, that I think is BGG's 2nd greatest failing.


And to help me put that into perspective, in your thinking the greatest failing of BGG is...?


Admin. The moderation, and the commercialisation (and the way the two are linked on occasion). Not the fact that either exist, but how they exist.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Cepeda
United States
Tempe
Arizona
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
blaecblaed wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
It is this exact groupthink, unquestioned and unshakable, that I think is BGG's 2nd greatest failing.


And to help me put that into perspective, in your thinking the greatest failing of BGG is...?


That Munchkin is not rated number one, of course!
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Philip
United States
Madison
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
JasonJ0 wrote:

It is this exact groupthink, unquestioned and unshakable, that I think is BGG's 2nd greatest failing. Far too many people here are just too ready to trot out the same line about X every time, stating their opinion of X as undeniable fact and how dare someone think otherwise; couple this with endless repetition (I can't remember the last time a week went by without my seeing another Munchkin snark while just casually browsing something not even remotely related to it) by a large and (importantly) vocal group of people and you get a rather twisted local culture, which becomes very difficult to penetrate.


Happens in every sort of hobby that I've seen. Something gets popular, the more self described hardcore fans will talk it down. Music, movies, cameras, video games, SHOES, cars, etc etc. There is always that "one" thing that the collective can rally behind disliking. I don't blame that on anything in particular other than it's life, it happens. Oh well. I've done it, you've done it. Everyone has done it. Everyone will do it a million years from now on some other planet.

Munchkin gets burned on every other board game forum I've been on. It's not just here.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stew Woods
Australia
Cygnet
Tasmania
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
palmerkun wrote:

Munchkin is insanely popular. It's just not popular on BoardGameGeek, where the vast majority of members prefer dry abstract "brain burning" games where the goal is to be 1% better than the next guy at collecting victory points.

Munchkin is thematic, random, features both cards and dice, and is about directly attacking other players. All of those things are considered BAD around here.


Exactly. On Fortress AT - that bastion of thematic gaming - they love the game.

Seems like every other article is a discussion of the latest expansion.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ajklotz wrote:
I'm a little sad to see this thread and find out it's not very popular, 'cause I thought it looked pretty fun. I just don't know if I know enough people I would actually want to play a game like this with.


If a game seems fun to you, check it out. There've been a few bitter posts in this thread, but the reason Munchkin isn't too popular here is simply that it's not a well designed game.

It's designed in a way that works, that players coming from mainstream games like Sorry or Risk wouldn't even notice "something's wrong", but the main things wrong with the design are that players can (by (bad) luck of the draw) never have a foot in the game. This problem is amplified by the fact that the end game is a battle of attrition, where a player trying to get the winning point they need is beaten down by the table. This causes the game to go long.

If you're the player who can't be competitive in a long game through no fault of your own, it's easy to dislike such a game. I had such an experience with a fairly well rated game, Fortune and Glory: The Cliffhanger Game, which is almost literally an over produced, more thematic game of munchkin.

There have been rule changes since Munchkin debuted, originally you started with 4 cards, now you start with 8, this probably greatly reduces problem number 1, as you just have more options.

The endgame problem is what still needs to be addressed. The game needs to end like Bomberman. In Bomberman when all the bricks are gone and it's you and one other bomber running around an open board, it's literally a stalemate, EXCEPT eventually the board starts shrinking, forcing you and your opponents closer and basically demanding you settle the game. The addition of some sort of mechanism responsible for ending the game would be pretty excellent.

6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Smeltzer
United Kingdom
Leeds
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
tumorous wrote:
UnluckyNumber wrote:
Um, no, I'm betting it's Harry Potter.

Touché. I have amended.

I think there's another contender: http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-entertainment-features/6241...
Quote:
Now The Hollywood Reporter tells us the book sales from the success of the film are "bigger than expected," and there's now 36.5 million copies of the series in print, a big jump from 23.5 million. 

Per installment, this means there's 17.5 million copies of The Hunger Games in print, 10 million copies of Catching Fire, and 9 million copies of Mockingjay. Since everyone inevitably compares Hunger Games to the Twilight series, this puts Games well past the teen vampire saga, which has 30 million copies of the series in print.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan R
United States
South Carolina
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
So.... what's the problem with being evil?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Bellevue
NE
flag msg tools
tumorous wrote:
palmerkun wrote:
Munchkin is insanely popular. It's just not popular on BoardGameGeek, where the vast majority of members prefer dry abstract "brain burning" games where the goal is to be 1% better than the next guy at collecting victory points.

Munchkin is thematic, random, features both cards and dice, and is about directly attacking other players. All of those things are considered BAD around here.

As for how popular it is? Some of the "most popular" games around here have only sold ten, maybe 20 thousand copies worldwide.
Munchkin, in comparison, has sold over 100 thousand copies IN THE LAST YEAR. It's 11 years old now.
And that's just for the original fantasy themed base set. That's excluding expansions and spinoffs like Space Munchkin and Zombie Munchkin which also sell in the thousands every month.

It's an extremely popular game. It's just not the kind of game people HERE like.

mb



In other news, Twilight is the most second-most popular young adult series of the last decade twenty years.


You do see the inherent subjectivity in deciding what games are worthwhile and which ones aren't, don't you? You're more than welcome to feel that both Munchkin and Twilight aren't very good. Millions would beg to differ, and that's fine too.

I would no more judge a person for their like of Munchkin as I would their love of the Twilight series. I, like many other human beings, can be a judgemental prick at times. It's one of my many failings. But I strive to be a better person by quelling those thoughts before they reach my lips or fingertips, lest I say or type something I might later regret. I'm striving to treat others the way I'd like to be treated.

Nobody should be made to feel inferior simply because of what games or books they choose to entertain themselves with. Not only is it inconsiderate, it's an entirely worthless endeavor. If you want to introduce someone to games you find better, politely ask them to play your game with you, but don't badmouth their game. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Bellevue
NE
flag msg tools
I think part of the underlying problem stems from our tendency to believe that out of all the various genres and types of games out there, we should all be striving to play games that are shining exemplars within their genre. We categorize incessantly, striving to discern whether a game is a Euro or Ameritrash, brain-burner or filler, etc. Many feel there are just too many good games out there to waste time and money on games that fall short.

The disappointment comes from games failing to meet expectations. One of the expectations folks are forming is that Munchkin is a filler card game. While it is definitely of the "beer and pretzel" genre, I'm not so certain that Munchkin was ever explicitly designed to fit into the filler game mold. We open up the small box and see two decks worth of cards and think filler. All we need to do to see the mistake is look at another game Steve Jackson designed to see the flaw. Illuminati.

The most recent edition of Illuminati is in the same size box as Munchkin. It contains roughly the same amount of cards. How long does the average game of Illuminati take? Could be hours. This is considered acceptable in Illuminati, yet not in Munchkin. The themes and settings of each game are different, as are the mechanics, but in both, players start out weak and then gradually get stronger through the acquisition of more cards. Eventually one player reaches the goal, be it number of controlled groups or number of levels obtained, and the game ends. Why is it that the luck inherent in a card game acceptable in Illuminati, but not so much in Munchkin? Why is a one-hour plus game of Illuminati welcome, but if Munchkin takes longer than an hour, it's overstayed its welcome? I wish I knew.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jamie
Australia
Hobart
Tasmania
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Sooooooooooooooo.
"Subject: Is Table Top evil?"
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Bellevue
NE
flag msg tools
Footoomba wrote:
Sooooooooooooooo.
"Subject: Is Table Top evil?"


Subjective. Depends on ones opinion of Munchkin, which is influenced by too many other factors. Table Top might be evil by virtue of having Evil Steve himself on the show. When viewing the episode, players weren't sacrificing animals to Pagan Gods of Luck in order to better their chances of winning, nor were they literally stabbing each other in the back. At worst, they helped promote a game seemingly held in high regard just about everywhere but BGG, so I'm going with "No."
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott
New Zealand
Auckland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
hskrfn822 wrote:
Why is a one-hour plus game of Illuminati welcome, but if Munchkin takes longer than an hour, it's overstayed its welcome? I wish I knew.


Because so very often the end game of Munchkin becomes exceedingly repetitive. There is no meaningful change in game state--and thus no prospect of an end--for long periods and this prolonged lack of ability to detectably influence the game except through playing badly and thus causing it to end is unsatisfying. Only at long last does it come that, through luck not skilful play, one player draws cards that will allow him to win or other players don't draw the cards that would stop him winning. You might as well be orbiting a strange attractor just waiting for the trajectory to unpredictably converge. You don't know when it's going to happen and you hope that you're not near a saddle point and about to follow the trajectory out to infinity.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan W
United States
Jacksonville
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
robbdaman wrote:
I watched it for Felicia Day but I agree Munchkin has never looked better as a result.


So did you order you build-a-bear with her sound clip yet? I'm tempted at the very least to post it to this thread as an mp3.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Bellevue
NE
flag msg tools
Uneyed wrote:
robbdaman wrote:
I watched it for Felicia Day but I agree Munchkin has never looked better as a result.


So did you order you build-a-bear with her sound clip yet? I'm tempted at the very least to post it to this thread as an mp3.


I'm not going to lie. I seriously considered going and getting a bunch made to sell to creepy people with money to blow. Then I felt a bit creepy myself and reconsidered.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
that Matt
United States
Toledo
Ohio
flag msg tools
I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
badge
I can feel bits of my brain falling away like wet cake.
mbmb
hskrfn822 wrote:
tumorous wrote:
palmerkun wrote:
Munchkin is insanely popular. It's just not popular on BoardGameGeek, where the vast majority of members prefer dry abstract "brain burning" games where the goal is to be 1% better than the next guy at collecting victory points.

Munchkin is thematic, random, features both cards and dice, and is about directly attacking other players. All of those things are considered BAD around here.

As for how popular it is? Some of the "most popular" games around here have only sold ten, maybe 20 thousand copies worldwide.
Munchkin, in comparison, has sold over 100 thousand copies IN THE LAST YEAR. It's 11 years old now.
And that's just for the original fantasy themed base set. That's excluding expansions and spinoffs like Space Munchkin and Zombie Munchkin which also sell in the thousands every month.

It's an extremely popular game. It's just not the kind of game people HERE like.

mb



In other news, Twilight is the most second-most popular young adult series of the last decade twenty years.


You do see the inherent subjectivity in deciding what games are worthwhile and which ones aren't, don't you? You're more than welcome to feel that both Munchkin and Twilight aren't very good. Millions would beg to differ, and that's fine too.

I would no more judge a person for their like of Munchkin as I would their love of the Twilight series. I, like many other human beings, can be a judgemental prick at times. It's one of my many failings. But I strive to be a better person by quelling those thoughts before they reach my lips or fingertips, lest I say or type something I might later regret. I'm striving to treat others the way I'd like to be treated.

Nobody should be made to feel inferior simply because of what games or books they choose to entertain themselves with. Not only is it inconsiderate, it's an entirely worthless endeavor. If you want to introduce someone to games you find better, politely ask them to play your game with you, but don't badmouth their game. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

Yes, I agree. palmerkun should be ashamed for his badmouthing of the BGG community's general taste in games.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Bellevue
NE
flag msg tools
tumorous wrote:
hskrfn822 wrote:
tumorous wrote:
palmerkun wrote:
Munchkin is insanely popular. It's just not popular on BoardGameGeek, where the vast majority of members prefer dry abstract "brain burning" games where the goal is to be 1% better than the next guy at collecting victory points.

Munchkin is thematic, random, features both cards and dice, and is about directly attacking other players. All of those things are considered BAD around here.

As for how popular it is? Some of the "most popular" games around here have only sold ten, maybe 20 thousand copies worldwide.
Munchkin, in comparison, has sold over 100 thousand copies IN THE LAST YEAR. It's 11 years old now.
And that's just for the original fantasy themed base set. That's excluding expansions and spinoffs like Space Munchkin and Zombie Munchkin which also sell in the thousands every month.

It's an extremely popular game. It's just not the kind of game people HERE like.

mb



In other news, Twilight is the most second-most popular young adult series of the last decade twenty years.


You do see the inherent subjectivity in deciding what games are worthwhile and which ones aren't, don't you? You're more than welcome to feel that both Munchkin and Twilight aren't very good. Millions would beg to differ, and that's fine too.

I would no more judge a person for their like of Munchkin as I would their love of the Twilight series. I, like many other human beings, can be a judgemental prick at times. It's one of my many failings. But I strive to be a better person by quelling those thoughts before they reach my lips or fingertips, lest I say or type something I might later regret. I'm striving to treat others the way I'd like to be treated.

Nobody should be made to feel inferior simply because of what games or books they choose to entertain themselves with. Not only is it inconsiderate, it's an entirely worthless endeavor. If you want to introduce someone to games you find better, politely ask them to play your game with you, but don't badmouth their game. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

Yes, I agree. palmerkun should be ashamed for his badmouthing of the BGG community's general taste in games.


You must be quite proud of yourself. I've never seen someone backhandedly trash people for having a different opinion so eloquently before. Kudos. Give yourself a pat on the back. You deserve it.

Again, and getting back on to the topic...We were asked whether or not Table Top is evil. I ask the OP to clarify. Were we expected to take the question seriously and reply or were they just being facetious? If we were supposed to take it seriously, what is your definition of evil and what would give you the impression that it might possibly be evil in any context? I'm not certain what was implied, but what I inferred was that Table Top might be doing the viewers a disservice by playing Munchkin. If that was the intended implication, then please state what characteristics a game has to possess for the broadcast of its gameplay to be considered "evil." I would argue that the usage of the term "evil" is nothing but hyperbole and thus, not worthy of any serious attention. If the OP wasn't being serious, then what purpose did this thread serve, other than to further pile on. I get it. You don't like Munchkin. Some do, others don't. Can we move on please?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Prev «  1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.