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7 Wonders: Leaders» Forums » Rules

Subject: Courtesan's Guild (And yes, Olympia B) rss

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Steven Albano
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Okay, I know there is another topic, but it's not just about this exact ruling. So I figured we might as well just devote a new topic to discuss this Guild.

First, what exactly does this Guild do? What does Courtesan's Guild work or not work with?

Second, have we ever officially determined how Olympia B works with Courtesan's Guild?
 
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ackmondual
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colormage1 wrote:
Okay, I know there is another topic, but it's not just about this exact ruling. So I figured we might as well just devote a new topic to discuss this Guild.

First, what exactly does this Guild do? What does Courtesan's Guild work or not work with?

Second, have we ever officially determined how Olympia B works with Courtesan's Guild?
Just so I don't bias myself again, I'm gonna say.....


Court's Guild lets you copy a Leader that one of your neighbors has. There's a CG token (the circular token with the lady on it) that has to be assigned on the turn when you build the Guild. Whatever you copy, it's like you have a 2nd, physical copy of that Leader's card in front of you as well.

With Olympia side B, since there's only 1 Court Guild token, wherever the CG token is on is whatever you copy if you decide to use that side B power. Again, it's as if there's a 3rd copy of that Guild in front of you.


player 1 (Olympia side B)
1 stage of wonder complete
uses wonder ability to copy CG

player 2
2 stages of wonder complete
CG.. token placed on p4's leader

player 3
3 stages of wonder complete
"+3 pts per stage of wonder you completed" leader


so p1 gets 3pts, p2 gets 6pts, while p3 gets 9pts.





EDIT: added example
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Steven Fouts
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At Gen Con, I'm going to ask the Asmodee people about Olympia (B) & the Courtesan's Guild. In my opinion, there imput will be more "official" than what random people (myself included) her on board game geek have ruled.
 
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Eric Franklin
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foutss wrote:
At Gen Con, I'm going to ask the Asmodee people about Olympia (B) & the Courtesan's Guild. In my opinion, there imput will be more "official" than what random people (myself included) her on board game geek have ruled.


I'm the one you're likely to be talking to at GenCon, since the Asmodee folk tend to pass rules questions on to me at the Con. And occasionally outside of the con as well.

I was part of the translation team for both the base game and the expansions.

Here's the answer you'll get from me (and I'll confirm with Repos, and will update this post if they give me a different answer):

Olympia's "B" says, "The player totals the victory points as if they had built that Guild" (emphasis mine)

The Courtesan's ability says "When the Courtesan's Guild is built ... "

Olympia's B also states that that the choice of the Guild is made at the end of the game, when counting points.

In other words, until scoring, the third stage of Olympia is an empty lot, waiting for a building. When the scoring phase is reached, a new Courtesan's Guild is built in that spot, and - when a Courtesan's Guild is built, you get to place the Courtesan Token.

Now, since the Courtesan's Guild specifies that you place "THE" Courtesan token, an argument could be made that you move the token at the point in scoring in which Wonders are calculated. This argument is immediately shot down by the clarification of Olympia from the rulebook, which states, "Copying a guild has no effect on the city of the copied Guild's owner." So Olympia - which gets to place a Courtesan Token - can't move the existing one, because that would change the state of their neighbor's city.

The game only came with one token, it's true. Maybe there should have been a second Courtesan token. Or a generic token. Or an Olympia B token. Maybe I'll suggest that to the Repos guys for the next expansion (whether they listen or not is an open question).

Meanwhile, use a coin or a Jungle Speed Totem or a key or your pet cat or a thumb tack or some jacks or a ball of string or some pocket lint or something as an extra Courtesan Token, if you need to.

If it helps, the French seems to be equally as clear. I'll check to see if there are implications and/or emphasis that I'm missing. And I think that English was used as the "mother translation" for the other languages, so "it says X in Spanish/Japanese/Russian/Sanskrit" is not actually helpful, as these were translated from the English, and the translators may have put their own interpretation into it (this is not, by the way, intended to disparage any translators. The fact that this seems to be the only long-running rules question for the game in any language tells me that the other translations for this game are pretty damn solid).

Eric
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Steven Fouts
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Please let me know if my summary of your post is correct.

1. Build 3rd Wonder of Olympia (B).
2. At end of game, if I copy Courtesan's Guild, I place my own Courtesan token on one of my neighbor's Leader. Placement of my token has no effect on my neighbor's token.

Copying a Leaders that has in-game effects (Bilkis) would be a terrible play, right?
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Eric Franklin
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foutss wrote:
Please let me know if my summary of your post is correct.

1. Build 3rd Wonder of Olympia (B).
2. At end of game, if I copy Courtesan's Guild, I place my own Courtesan token on one of my neighbor's Leader. Placement of my token has no effect on my neighbor's token.

Copying a Leaders that has in-game effects (Bilkis) would be a terrible play, right?


Just glancing at the summary, that looks right.

And yes, there are leaders whose selection would be ... suboptimal. But you can legally choose them.

Eric
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Can you use Olympia B's power to copy Courtesan's guild to then copy your own leader?
 
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Eric Franklin
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vandy4 wrote:
Can you use Olympia B's power to copy Courtesan's guild to then copy your own leader?


No. Because Olympia B becomes (basically) a Courtesan's Guild which is in YOUR city, so you place a new token from YOUR city.
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That's what I thought. This situation came up last weekend, and I told my opponent that Olympia essentially takes the Courtesan's Guild Card from my tableau to his.

thanks!
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