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Subject: Anything more on the rules before I pledge? rss

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Team Ski
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It would be nice to know more about the rules of the game. So far I like what I see.

-Ski
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Rob Buchler
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I'm on the forums at Mantic, and so far there hasn't been a lot said by those in the know about the rules. Do know that gameplay is about an hour, there are rules for league play included in the main rules, there is an event deck to draw from during a game, and blood and gore will flow...
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Jay Adan
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Teamski wrote:
It would be nice to know more about the rules of the game. So far I like what I see.

-Ski


Mantic has always been good on anything visual. Rules, however, have always left a bit to be desired. I like to describe their rules as "workmanlike." They will get you from point A to point B. When the game is over you will know who won.
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James M Hewitt
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Hey guys,

James here - I'm a relative newcomer to the world of games design, but I worked on DreadBall as supporting developer alongside Jake Thornton, so I know a thing or two about the game! The guys at the Mantic bunker have asked me to get over here to see if there's anything I can answer.

So what do you want to know? I'm not going to post up each and every rule, and I don't think I can sum it all up in a single post, but I'll happily respond to any questions you've got.

From what's been said so far:

Rob: You're right about the time it takes - most games have ended up between 45 and 75 minutes, with the occasional bloodbath going on a bit longer! See, the game works on a "differential scoring" system - it starts at 0, and moves towards the scoring team whenever a Strike happens. So, for instance, if the score is one point in my favour, and you score three, the the score will be two points in your favour. Get it? After 14 turns, if the score is 0, Sudden Death starts, and things get interesting. The gates slam shut (so no Reserves can enter play), and the first team to score a point - or the last team standing - is declared the winner!

Jay: We've gone all-out to make this an interesting game in its own right - hopefully the rules and the background will stand out as fresh even in places where they might seem familiar. A lot of playtesters have commented on the speed and flow of the game (the word "hyperkinetic" kept coming up) and the depth of the tactics. Being a good player takes strategic thought and forward thinking, but luck plays a part (as ever!) and risky strategies can pay off massively. I've not seen a dull game yet, and I've played it a lot!


Hope that's a bit of a help - keep the questions coming!
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jeremy waffles
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Thanks for doing this!

Where do the cards / Dice come into play. Is the card usage more like Dungeon Twister where you are limited, or are they part of the randomness as well.

Also, can you talk about Ball movement?
 
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James M Hewitt
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Hi Jeremy - and thanks for taking an interest!

The cards are multi-use - they each contain four different pieces of information:

- They've got an in-game effect
- They've got a list of numbers that's used for random player selection
- They generate a random number for Ref movement
- They've got a "Cheer" rating, used in Fan Checks.

In-game effects are the main part of each card. These are Actions or Events. Actions cards can be used to supplement your five action tokens for a turn, letting your team do that little bit more, or pull off a complex play even when the dice don't behave themselves. Event cards are generally remains-in-play effects, lasting until another Event is played or drawn. They change the game in small ways - maybe the ball bounces more randomly, maybe one of the players was partying too much last night, or maybe the Ref is feeling particularly short-sighted.

You can spend an action in-game to buy a card and keep it in your hand, ready to be played later, meaning you can lose an action in the short term to gain something useful in the long term. Most teams also start with a number of cards in-hand.

Sometimes, cards are drawn randomly - for example, when the Ref has to move, when a random player needs to be selected, or when a Fan Check is made due to a player scoring a high number of points or landing a real bone-crunching hit. When this happens, and the random card is an Event, it comes into play immediately - this can cause sudden, subtle changes in the flow of the game at key moments.


You also asked about ball movement. The ball is carried by players, but it can be lost fairly easily, so it's best to keep a ball carrier away from enemy players. The ball can be thrown, but the throw distance isn't massive, so tactical movement is encouraged. The game features a core "facing" mechanic (i.e. the way your models are facing matters!), and this comes into play with passing - it's a heck of a lot easier to pass to a player who's looking in the right direction...

Of course, if the ball's dropped, it starts rolling around the pitch. Deviation / random direction of travel is determined with a dice roll - the hex system is very handy for this - and loose balls travel a number of hexes equal to a dice roll. This can take it quite a long way, and if it hits a wall, it bounces off.

Another key mechanic that comes up is the "free action" system. When a player does particularly well at certain skill tests, he gets to take a free action - for example, when catching, a test that scores two or more successes lets the catching player immediately take a Run or Throw action. If the catching player is a Striker, he can do both. These free actions can link up as much as you like, forming a potentially unbroken chain of actions. However, if you lose the ball - either unintentionally (by falling over!) or intentionally (by throwing and missing) - your turn is over. It's not uncommon to see a skilled player take advantage of these free actions and, by taking several risks and pushing his luck, score a high-point Strike in the first turn of the game. Scoring is a lot more common than it is in some other sports games, with most games involving a tug-of-war between the two teams as Strikes are scored.

Speaking of Strikes - did I mention that a Strike doesn't stop play? Nothing does, in fact. Once the game starts, it's one long drive until the winner is declared. Whenever a Strike is successfully made, the scoring player's turn ends, and his opponent's turn starts with the ball being fired table-football-style from one end of the centre line.


Phew! I think I've answered that one. Hope it's some food for thought, and it's whet your appetite for some futuristic sports action!
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Rob Buchler
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So the game is one long drive, but is divided into 14 turns? I assume that a team's turn ends when it uses up all its available actions, or when it loses the ball?

And, are deaths common? Do injuries in a game have effects that carry over during league play?

Can you discuss how player development is handled, assuming players can improve skills and whatnot during the course of a season?

Thanks for all the info, btw!
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Paul
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That is by far the most information about gameplay that I have seen yet, and it gives me loads to be thinking about.

Nice one
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James M Hewitt
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Hi Rob!

Yep - one long drive, 14 "Rushes", seven per side - unless Sudden Death happens, as I mentioned earlier, in which case it can go on a bit longer. And yes, you assumed correctly; your Rush ends when you run out of actions, run out of players (you get a maximum of 2 actions per player per turn under normal circumstances), or you lose the ball. Those are pretty much the only situations under which your turn ends.

Deaths happen in almost every game; however, with the advanced medical technology held by the DGB (The DreadBall Governing Body, a.k.a "Digby"), it's not as much of an inconvenience as you might expect! If a player is killed in the arena, the team's coach has the option of paying a fairly hefty medical bill to have him revived, or recycling his vitals through approved DonorVend sites, making a bit of money back in the process.

As for skills, players gain experience during games by doing the sort of thing the fans love - scoring lots of points, really hurting enemy players, or just being generally useful. When players level up, they can gain a random skill or stat advance from a list depending on their player type. Players advance fairly quickly at the start of a season, but this levels out as they become more grizzled.

Hope that's a decent enough answer!

Right, I'm off to the pub. (It's thirsty work, this games design lark.) Keep the questions coming in, folks - I'll get back to you as soon as I can!

James
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James M Hewitt
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Nearly missed you there, Paul - glad to give you something to reflect on! Let me know if there's anything in particular you'd like to know about.
 
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jeremy waffles
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This is sounding superb.

Are there team specific card sets, or are they all in a general set?

Can you talk a little bit about player movement and how it works? I am curious how far on average a player piece moves during a movement action.

I heard a mention about having different Seasons, can you talk more about that?
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Team Ski
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Thanks for responding!

1. Does the zones on the field mean something for gameplay?

2. Is there more than one way to score? Are there variable score values, i.e. fieldgoal vs TD?

3. Does the game have any Speedball 2 effects on the ball or scoring modifiers?

4. I don't like the scoring system at all! Why use this system? I would like to see the traditional method. This allows for stats keeping as well and gives a better idea how good a defense or offense is or how well a player played.

Thanks again!

-Ski
 
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James M Hewitt
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Glad to hear it, Jeremy!

The cards are all in one common deck - nothing team-specific as yet. However, that's a very cool idea, and we might have a look at trying to bring it in at a later date. You never know!

Player movement comes in two types - Running (standard movement) and Sprinting (faster, but less flexible). As I mentioned before, facings are used in the game. When a player takes a Run action, he can move a number of hexes up to his Move rating, changing facing as he likes for no cost. A Sprint action doubles your Move rating, but you can only move into the hex directly in front of you; if you want to turn, each facing change costs 1 point of movement. This means that a Sprinting player can go flat-out quite a long way, but can't do much fancy footwork - also, it's harder to pick up a ball if you're Sprinting.

Speaking of facings, each player has a "threat zone". This is the hex directly in front of it, and the hexes either side of that one that are adjacent to the player. (That might sound confusing, but there are lovely shiny diagrams in the rulebook that make more sense!) If you're moving in an opponent's threat zone, you'll get tackled and end up on the floor unless you can succeed at an Evade check; the more Evade checks you take in a single action, the harder they are to succeed at.

As for Seasons, there's nothing fixed for different ones yet a "Season" is just another name for "League", or "Campaign", or "series of linked games". It just sounds extra sportsy!
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James M Hewitt
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Hey Ski -

Sorry to hear you don't like the scoring system. However, you can easily keep track of how many Strikes each player in your team scores, and how many points each is worth - I did this during playtesting, when we were trying to work out how often Strikes were happening, which teams were the best at scoring lots of points, whether people were scoring multiple low-cost Strikes or saving up for big ones, et cetera. If people are interested, I might have a chat with the guys in the bunker and see if we can't get some kind of "League stat tracker" up on the site somewhere. (Or added to a KS bundle, maybe?)

As for your other questions, I can answer 1 and 2 in the same paragraph, I reckon!

The game's a lot less footbally than some other games out there. As such, scoring's a bit more abstract, with three different places to score. Those coloured zones (red or white, by default) are the Strike Zones, with the solid red or white hex as the Strike Hex (the target). In the game world, when a player carrying the ball puts foot into a Strike Zone, the Strike Target becomes valid, and if he can throw the ball on-target, he scores! In more advanced arenas, this could mean a holographic target shimmers into existence, or a teleportal activates; in smaller leagues, Refs might have to watch footwork carefully and disallow Strikes made by players not standing in a Strike zone. In game terms, this means that once you're in the Strike Zone, you can make a Strike attempt by throwing the ball. The Strike Zone furthest from the enemy start zone is worth three points, while the other two are worth one each. Strikes made while standing in the furthest hex from the Strike Hex are worth an additional point.

Hope that makes some sense!

The other areas of note on the board are the yellow hexes (the Gates, where reserves can come on from the subs bench whenever there's an opportunity) and the chequered hex (where the Ref starts).

As for Speedball 2 effects on the ball... not yet. "Yet" being the very operative word. We've got plans for expansions, which (you never know) might even come a bit sooner if stretch goals get hit. (To be honest, I don't know much more than you guys - I should mention that before people get too excited!)

You're very welcome, though. Thanks for taking the time to think up some questions, and I hope the answers I've given have been up to scratch!
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Rob Buchler
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It seems it would make more sense to have hex bases for the models, given the importance of facings in the game. Maybe a nice stretch goal in the KS would be some custom hex bases for anyone who has pledged - pledged at my level or higher!
Did facing issues come up during playtesting due to round bases?
 
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James M Hewitt
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During playtesting, we actually used square bases - it just seemed more sensible! We were holding out hope for hex bases to be included in the game, because naturally they'd make the game easier to play, but I think (and I hope it's okay for me to say this) they proved to be a bit out of budget. That said, that's what's this Kickstarter's all about - so you never know your luck, we might just get our dream after all!

Either way, though, we generally found that there weren't any facing issues in testing - the game moves so quickly that you can generally remember which way everyone's facing, even if the board gets knocked. In most cases at least! (My legendary clumsiness notwithstanding...)
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Tristan Brunet
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This card system sounds really neat. The multiple usage of each card reminds me of the excellend Fate Deck mechanic from Combat Commander. And I really like how this sport game with fantasy race seems to have a very different vibe from other ones like BB or even Elfball. Not only because it has a futuristic setting, but because Dreadball as a sport seems really different from those ones, being closer to Speedball... The game seems really promising !

What is the overall feel of each team, gameplay-wise ? Which one did you like the best ? Are the different teams really different, stats-wise ? For example, does a forgefather guard have a clearly different profile from a Corporate one ? By the way, how does the profile of a single player look like ?
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Lee L
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Im really liking the sound of this game.

One thing i'd like to see is more corporate type teams and sci fi influence.

Please just dont be a BB in the future, dwarves, ratmen ( skaven ) orcs, what's next elves and chaos and undead??

We have BB for that!

People love speedball and Rollerball and this is what comes up alot on the kick starter comments,like it or not but this is the comparison.

we need androids, cyborgs, aliens, different superpower corporate teams, something different to the same old same old.

I wish you all the best with this venture, if the above is whats going to happen then i'm all over this as from what you have said about the rules, it looks great, it's the teams and miniatures im now holding out for.
 
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Leon Chap
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Can you give some info on player stats and what they do in game terms?

Agree with Lee, please no more GW rip off teams, rats in space????? We want real sci fi
 
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James M Hewitt
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Thanks for the compliments, Tristan - we made a huge effort to make the game original and interesting, so I'm really happy that it comes across as different from games that have gone before!

The Corporation team is the most generic all-rounder, although it does fare slightly better when going for passing / Striking plays that it tries brute force - especially when playing against the heavier teams! The starting composition is three Strikers, two Guards and three Jacks. The best tactics I've seen involving Corporation teams feature lots of free actions, chaining up passes between Strikers to move the ball past the defence and into a position to make a three or four point Strike.

Marauders, on the other hand, are just plain brutal! Orx are the hardest hitters in the game. They've got a statline that's all about dishing out violence, and as Guards they get bonuses to dice tests for Slams and Armour Checks. Goblins, on the other hand, are fairly good at dodging, and average at picking up the ball, but not great at hitting opposing players! It's a team of two halves (staring line up is 3 Orc Guards and 5 Goblin Jacks) and you need to play it as such. Success generally means taking opposing Strikers (and other threatening players) out of play as early and as frequently as possible, giving the Goblins a chance to score Strikes where they can.

Forgefathers might seem a bit like a short, bearded Corporation team at first - they're the only other team (so far!) to have all three playing positions. However, the way they use them is quite different! Forgefather teams aren't very fast, but they make up for that by being characteristically fierce and uncompromising! Their Jacks can hit almost as hard as an Orc, and their Guards are terrifying brutes who simply refuse to be knocked down. The presence of Strikers on the team makes a passing play viable, which some playtesters were surprised (and delighted!) by. Starting line-up is three Guards, two Strikers and three Jacks. The team adapts well to different tactics, but is particularly good at making its way up the arena, bowling enemy players aside, and letting a Striker make a high-scoring Strike.

Veermyn are, in my mind, the oddball team. They're the one that's got amazing potential, but is most challenging for a new player to use. They've also got the strangest line-up. See, Veermyn don't make natural DreadBall players - so they have to compensate! As a result, every player who isn't massive enough to be a Guard is trained as a Striker. This, when added to their natural speed and agility, makes the team a frightening prospect in the hands of a skilled coach, even if their lack of immediate flexibility makes them a challenge straight off the bat. They can dash around defenders like they're not there, they can Sprint from one end of the arena to the other in the space of a turn, and it's near impossible to knock them down and make sure they stay down. Unfortunately, their achilles heel is their low level of ball skill - you can't guarantee they'll always pick it up, let alone be able to score! The starting lineup is 2 Guards and 6 Strikers. Tactically, it's best to aim for multiple low-point Strikes - you're after quality, not quantity! Also, use spare Strikers to help your Guards when it comes to Slamming enemy players - as you've only got two players who can dish out damage, you want to make sure they've got the best chance possible of doing something!


You also asked about profiles - yes, each race has its own profile, meaning they all feel different, with their own strengths and weaknesses. Each player is ranked in Movement (how far they can move, funnily enough!), Strength (how good they are at hitting people), Speed (reflexes, agility, etc.), Skill (with the ball), and Armour (i.e. how much of it they're wearing!). Armour is dependent on player class rather than race, with Strikers getting the least protection and Guards getting the most.

To really understand the profile, though, you'll want to know about how dice are used in the game... ooh, that's an exciting one. And simply because of that, I'm going to leave you all hanging while I have a late breakfast!
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James M Hewitt
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Looks like Lee and Leon got in while I was posting that one! I shall go hungry for another five minutes, because I'm lovely like that.

Lee - as the game's set in the Warpath universe, which already has a following and a fanbase, we'd have been crazy not to have started out with teams that are recognisable from that system. However, that game focuses on races that have large military forces - with DreadBall we've got a chance to look at things that might otherwise fall between the cracks! Also, as you've noticed, not all Corporation teams have to be the same. Watch this space (and the Kickstarter page!) for more info!

Leon - hope the above post gave you some insights. Let me know if that's not the case!

Right, off to have a bacon butty...
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Leon Chap
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Im guessing you will be telling us all how the dice work then
How do the stats effect the dice?
How do you hit people? How do you pick the ball up and pass etc? How do players become injured?
Cheers for the Q&A I have already pledged $150 without knowing anything about the game and this is really useful and it sounds like a great game from what im hearing so far!
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James M Hewitt
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In a cruel, sickening twist of fate, I ended up with Corn Flakes as we were all out of bacon. I'm in a minor state of shock, so do please bear with me...

Right! Where were we? Oh, yes - dice. Lovely little things, aren't they?

Understandably, dice play a massive part in DreadBall. All dice in the game are six sided, although they do come in a few different colours... more on that later. The main way they're used (aside from the odd bit of randomisation, such as when a ball gets dropped) is for stat-based tests, which you take whenever you need to do something useful with one of your players.

The core mechanic for a dice test is as follows (with the example of a floored Corporation Jack taking a Stand Up action).

- Create your dice pool. This is normally 3 dice, but certain things - the presence of enemy players breathing down your neck, the distance you're trying to throw the ball, whether your player has had special training in the type of thing he's trying to do - can modify that number. In our example, there are no modifiers.
- Check the number you need to score for a die to be counted as a success. This is determined by the stat that you're testing against. For example, a Stand Up test is based on your Speed stat. A Corporation Jack has Speed 4+, so each dice that scores a 4+ is a success.
- Check your target number of successes. For a Stand Up test, this is 1.
- Roll the dice! Each successful die is counted. Each die that scores a 6 counts as a success and lets you immediately roll another die and add it to the check - this is cumulative, and keeps happening as long as you roll sixes.
- If you equal or beat the target number, you succeed! In most cases, if you double the target number, you get a bonus. For example, with a Stand Up check, one success lets you stand up, but two or more successes let you stand up and immediately take a free action (with the exception that you can't Sprint).

That's the basic mechanic for dice. Then you have opposed tests, where you're looking to beat the number of successes your opponent rolls, and cumulative tests, in which the target number increases each time you take the test during an action.

This bleeds into your next question, about how you hit people, pick up the ball, etc. All of these are Actions that you can take. You get 5 Action tokens per turn that you can spend on your team; each one lets you take an action:
You hit people with a Slam action, which might lead to an armour check and subsequent injury, putting the target out of play for 1-3 Rushes, or maybe even killing him!
You throw the ball with a Throw action - if you're throwing to a team mate, their starting dice pool to Catch the ball is equal to the number of successes you rolled on the throw. (If they double their Catch, they get a free Run or Throw action - Strikers get to Run as part of a Throw action, so they can get some serious free action chains going!
You pick up the ball with a Pick Up free action, which you get whenever you move into a hex containing the ball (as long as you're not a Guard). If you succeed, you pick it up; if you double, you get a free Run or Throw action, just like when you catch the ball.


There you go!

I hope this is starting to build a picture in people's minds of what sort of game this is. It's fast-paced, with one core mechanic that you can learn really easily. There's very little need to look things up in the rulebook, even by the end of your first game - the repetition of the mechanic throughout means you should pick everything up nice and quickly. We went all-out on making the rules intuitive and clear, and from what we saw during playtesting, it more or less worked! Even after one or two games, people were starting to discuss deep tactics and really think about upping their gameplay. Is it obvious that I'm pretty proud of this game?
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mike spike
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Thanks for this info, there looks like a lot of depth. Im in anyway, but did have a question, you mention for example veer-myn starting line up is 2 guards, n 6 strikers (i.e. No Jacks), the teams and game come (currently)at 8 players a side, so my question is, are there stats for the current unfeilded/unmentioned positions (i.e. Veer-myn jacks), even if they are underpowered and will there be figures?

also rather than buying a second full team, do you envisage being able to buy reasonably-priced singles that arent character/MVP? (i.e to feild 4 veermyn guards you would need two teams, rather than buying 2 more single guards).

I only ask as i see a lot of people highly personalising their teams, and want some flexibilty depending on opponents
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James M Hewitt
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Good questions, Mike!

As it stands, as far as I'm aware, there's no plan to release Veermyn Jacks - it's a characteristic of the team that they don't get them, and something that makes them stand out. In fact, the option of having Jacks would massively overpower the team, as it would greatly add to their flexibility. Similarly, don't expect to see any Orx who aren't guards, or Goblins who aren't Jacks - with one notable, moustache-twirling exception - for the same reason.

That said, there's nothing saying that future releases and expansions won't address these things. I'm just talking about the game as it currently stands!

As for your second question, I'm afraid I don't know much about the release schedule. My involvement in this has been almost entirely rules-related, with no input on how the products themselves are released. It would certainly seem sensible to be able to get singles, but I don't know what the viability would be, regarding cost. That's one for the bunker to answer!
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