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Subject: Nisei MK II rss

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Lawcomic
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I do not understand the text on this card. When it's scored, you put an agenda counter on it. What is that?

Also, what does "Hosted Agenda Token: End The Run" mean?
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Eric Rampson
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When you score it, after you move it to the score area, put an Agenda Token on it (the non-red side of the virus counters works fine). After that, you may, at any time, spend one hosted (which means sitting on the card) Agenda Token (remove it from the card) to end a run currently being made on one of your servers.

It's a wonderful Agenda.
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Lawcomic
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That's what I thought, thanks.

I am not sure how I would have been able to parse that based on the text without some guessing.
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Jefferson Krogh
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There is a part of the rulebook that explains what the "X:Y" construction means, as well as what hosted counters and cards are. I don't have the rulebook handy for exact page references, though.
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Paul Imboden
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Page 22, "Hosting". It doesn't mention timing issues. But as there is no 'click' icon on the effect, the Nisei MK II hosted counter can be played at any time.

And yeah, it's a game-changer for Jinteki. I wish it was in NBN, who desperately need in-faction ways to end runs.
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Lawcomic
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As an absolute novice at the game, this seems way overpowered.
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Everything between now and the next game is just killing time
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It can be devastating if used at the right time... but you only get one token so you can only use the ability once, hardly overpowered.
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Jeremy Owens
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Lawcomic wrote:
As an absolute novice at the game, this seems way overpowered.


I don't believe it is overpowered, but I do believe it is the best agenda ability in the core set by a decent margin.
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Marius Ødegård
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Lawcomic wrote:
As an absolute novice at the game, this seems way overpowered.


It can snowball pretty terribly. Score Nisei, start advancing next Nisei, break the run if Runner gets close, repeat.
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Wesley Kinslow
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The drawback of that though is being the only faction in the game without a 3x to advance agenda. At least currently for Jinteki all of their agendas need 4+ counters to pass.

Not a huge drawback for an uncounterable "go home" (sometime multiples) but still.
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Justin Gortner
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Lawcomic wrote:
As an absolute novice at the game, this seems way overpowered.


Being that the runner has 4 actions, can run 4 times on a turn, and that this counter / card is public knowledge, I definitely don't think the card is over powered.

Good? Yes. Overpowered? No.

JR
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BT Carpenter
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It can also be used as a nice bluff.

I had a fairly strong server and the Runner could get in twice.

I used the Nisei Mk II token on the first run. Absolutely convinced that it was the game winning Agenda, the Runner then used their 4th action to power into the server a second time, straight into a Junebug with 2 advancement tokens on it.

Two EMPs later and they were flatlined.

The other 3 cards in my woefully unprotected HQ were Agenda - and that's where the Runner should have been digging.
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Jeremy Owens
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byronczimmer wrote:
It can also be used as a nice bluff.

I had a fairly strong server and the Runner could get in twice.

I used the Nisei Mk II token on the first run. Absolutely convinced that it was the game winning Agenda, the Runner then used their 4th action to power into the server a second time, straight into a Junebug with 2 advancement tokens on it.

Two EMPs later and they were flatlined.


Nice move. The opposite is also possible. Agenda in the server. Runner runs it. After they pass the last ice in the server, you reach your hand for the counter on Nisei, but then you look at the Agenda and forego using Nisei's ability. It's a potentially risky move, but you could get the runner to jack out before accessing the card with the added bonus that they don't want to run that server again.

Edit: Need to us the Preview button more. By potentially risky, I mean really risky.
 
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Lawcomic
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malhaku wrote:

Nice move. The opposite is also possible. Agenda in the server. Runner runs it. After they pass the last ice in the server, you reach your hand for the counter on Nisei, but then you look at the Agenda and forego using Nisei's ability. It's a potentially risky move, but you could get the runner to jack out before accessing the card with the added bonus that they don't want to run that server again.

Edit: Need to us the Preview button more. By potentially risky, I mean really risky.


Man, that seems like a low percentage play!
 
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Jeremy Owens
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Lawcomic wrote:
malhaku wrote:

Nice move. The opposite is also possible. Agenda in the server. Runner runs it. After they pass the last ice in the server, you reach your hand for the counter on Nisei, but then you look at the Agenda and forego using Nisei's ability. It's a potentially risky move, but you could get the runner to jack out before accessing the card with the added bonus that they don't want to run that server again.

Edit: Need to us the Preview button more. By potentially risky, I mean really risky.


Man, that seems like a low percentage play!


It all depends. You're already playing Jinteki so the runner knows you have the traps and Junebug is pretty darn scary. That's one.

For two, I've only played Jinteki in one game so far, but after I scored Nisei I had two remote servers.. one with 2 ice and one with 4. After a turn in which I advanced the card in the 4 card remote server twice, the runner said, "Well, you're just going to use your ability and stop me, but I have to run there cause I know you won't waste it on the other server." He ran it, spent lots of cash, and I kicked him out with the ability just before he accessed the card in the server.

Had I reached for the counter and then not used it, I can guarantee 100% that he would have run for the hills just based on his disposition going into the run. (He also only had 3 cards in hand and there was 2 advancements on the card. He also used an infiltration earlier on a Junebug and let out an expletive when he read the card for the first time.)

A lot has to line up, but if it works, you can let the card just sit there and work on other things if you need to. Finish advancing the agenda when you feel like it.
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Having played against a fully tooled 2x core set Jinteki last evening I can tell you I was glad to have included Infiltration in my deck.

Lost the first game to a Nisei feint. I was sure I was running on my winning agenda. He ends the run, so I'm thinking 'that's it, game's over next turn.' This turned out to be true, but it was because that one turn delay gave him enough time to make the junebug that was actually on the server lethal.
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Can the token be spent basically any time during the run? E.g., right before any access, etc. What is the most common time to play it?
 
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Jeff Lindsay
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You can use it any time paid abilities can be triggered. A very common time to use it is after the runner has broken through all the ice on a server and decided for the last time not to jack out but to access cards. This way they've spent the credits/suffered all the effects of running the entire server only to come up with nothing to show for it.

Late in the game this can be very potent on a server with a large number of ice, and can allow the corp to score a slower agenda. Often large servers are so expensive to run the runner doesn't have the credits to run them more than once a turn.
 
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Andy Mills
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It's super fun to play it right before the runner accesses a trap that has an advancement token on it. Next turn, advance it some more. The runner will be convinced that it's a valuable agenda, run it some more, and BOOM.

(Of course, if the Runner's aware of this strategy, they might not...but that's classic Netrunner doublethink.)
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Spyder Murphy
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manydills wrote:
It's super fun to play it right before the runner accesses a trap that has an advancement token on it. Next turn, advance it some more. The runner will be convinced that it's a valuable agenda, run it some more, and BOOM.

(Of course, if the Runner's aware of this strategy, they might not...but that's classic Netrunner doublethink.)
And is what makes the game great.
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BT Carpenter
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Phase 4.1 is the last legal time to use the Nisei Mk II token.
 
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danny p
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byronczimmer wrote:
Phase 4.1 is the last legal time to use the Nisei Mk II token.


actually, according to the most recent timing structure detailed in the FAQ, you can also use the token at 4.3
 
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Tala Mare
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Its pretty weak to be honest

and its definitely needed in a Jinteki deck since their ice is terrible at actually stopping the run
 
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Andrew Bartosh

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Talamare wrote:
Its pretty weak to be honest

and its definitely needed in a Jinteki deck since their ice is terrible at actually stopping the run


And by pretty weak I'm sure you mean "possessing one of the more powerful abilities in the entire game?" It is definitely one of the strongest agendas, ranking right up there with AstroScript and Posted Bounty in game winning potential.

While I exaggerate a bit in saying that it might as well read "Score your next Agenda" the raw power it possesses is pretty similar. There really isn't another card that can force the Runner to invest in a run and, regardless of anything he does or has, boot him out after completing it.
 
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Contigo
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Kobold Curry Chef wrote:
There is a part of the rulebook that explains what the "X:Y" construction means


This part confused me too. I eventually got it after realizing it was just a "spend X to get Y" construction, where you get one X when you score it.

Realize the ability is strong (for example, using the ability right after the runner passes all your ice), but it's difficult to score an agenda like that. So it's a big risk big reward type of agenda. It's also one-time use for now (unlike Private Security Force for example).
 
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