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Subject: What is needed to play? rss

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Jordan Upham
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I'm a big fan of Crimson Skies on the XBox and was wondering what I would need to track down to play this game? I see there is a set of expansions for sale in the BGG market place.

Also, I have never played a miniatures game so is there some general info I should know? How hard would this game be to learn?

Hopefully someone sees this.

Thanks
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Kyle W.
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The bare minimum needed to play it 2-Player would be the box, which includes rules, the special abilities card, two decks of maneuver cards (1 per player), a stack of movement tiles (octagons), and dice. You'll also need at least one airplane pack.

That should be enough to at least get a feel for the game if you're not sure whether you'll like it or not, but assuming you do, I highly recommend getting a second copy of the box so you can go up to 4-player.

If you're only going to get one airplane pack go with one of the sets that come with two planes and two pilot figures, but otherwise try to grab as many different sets as you can get. Each plane is "unique" so there's no need to get duplicates unless you intend to mod them.


The rules boxes also come with a fold-out map and a bunch of assorted tokens, but most of those are for the "Aces" variant which is a related ground-based game that uses the pilot figures. It's nowhere near as good as the air combat part of the game, but still worth a look.

ADDED:
It's not a difficult game to learn, and once you get the hang of things it plays pretty quick. You figure out turn order based on the speed, pick a maneuver card for each plane, lay out tiles to make the moves, and then roll dice to shoot. There are a lot of different abilities to play around with, but they're all nicely contained on the dials so as long as you keep the special abilities card handy you don't need to memorize any of it.

The trickiest part is probably the movement, since it does require some degree of spatial orientation ability to get the planes to go where you want them to go. The closest analog would be the Wings of War series of games in case you're familiar with any of those. If you can handle those, CS will be no problem.
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Ted Conn
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Kyle's assessment is spot on, but I thought I'd add one more part...

Since this game is 'dead' (i.e., nothing more will be produced for it), you should know what's out there.

There are four Aces packs and five squadron packs that were made. Of those, the only ones you may have trouble finding are Sky Enforcers (Aces pack #4) and the Black Swans (Squadron pack #5). The Swans should be the only set that sets you back a significant amount of money.

In addition, there was a 55-card deck of cool things that could be added to the game (weather, modifiers, scenarios, etc). They are evidently rare and could cost you some money.

Having said all this, buy a pack and the rules as Kyle said and see what you think before you jump in.
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Jordan Upham
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Thanks for the info. I've been looking at both Wings of War and the new star wars dogfighting game. I like this setting better than either so it sounds like a good fit. The rules don't sound too complicated so I might have to pull the trigger on this one. As a side note, I just ordered the PC game on amazon so I am getting the Crimson Skies bug full force.
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Aaron Morgan
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Take a look, too, for the earlier, non-Clix version of the game. It comes with cardboard planes that you assemble, but there was a line of metal minis released.

I mention it because you only need to track down the box set to have everything you need - it includes stats for several different planes (rather than the small pool of available planes in the other game), and has rules that allow you to make your own, as well as options for ongoing campaign play.
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Jordan Upham
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EitherOrlok wrote:
Take a look, too, for the earlier, non-Clix version of the game. It comes with cardboard planes that you assemble, but there was a line of metal minis released.

I mention it because you only need to track down the box set to have everything you need - it includes stats for several different planes (rather than the small pool of available planes in the other game), and has rules that allow you to make your own, as well as options for ongoing campaign play.


I am definitely interested in that version also but the only copy I see is $60 in the BGG market place. I'm hoping I can get some of the clix stuff cheap and at least try the game out.

Do they play similar at all?
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Ted Conn
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No, they don't.

The clix game is made for a lighter gaming audience. The FASA game is much more detailed to play, but provides a richer gaming experience.

If you've ever seen or played FASA's BattleTech as a minis game, it is comparable. Same with the clix games, MechWarrior and CS. About the same level of complexity.

Either way you go, you'll enjoy yourself, but I'd recommend jumping into the clix game first since you've said you haven't gamed minis before.
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Jordan Upham
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And maybe the clix game will make me want to track down the FASA game. I do like how those models and would want to upgrade to those and at $10-$15 a piece that might get pretty expensive.
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Aaron Morgan
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jupham wrote:
And maybe the clix game will make me want to track down the FASA game. I do like how those models and would want to upgrade to those and at $10-$15 a piece that might get pretty expensive.


With the big hex cards that you use to move the clix planes, there's nothing to stop you from using them with the original game's rules.
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Ted Conn
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Jordan,
The clix planes are the same size as the metal minis. A lot of people have bought extras, popped the planes off their clix bases and repainted them to suit their needs. You won't have as big of a selection of planes, but you'll have a great start at a great price.
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Jordan Upham
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Petru5 wrote:
Jordan,
The clix planes are the same size as the metal minis. A lot of people have bought extras, popped the planes off their clix bases and repainted them to suit their needs. You won't have as big of a selection of planes, but you'll have a great start at a great price.


Thats good to know. The only drawback I see to the clix game at this point is having to layout the hexes to move. Not sure if a hex map would work just as well (or where to get one). I am also considering making hex templates for the maneuvers but that might not be feasible
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Kyle W.
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jupham wrote:
Petru5 wrote:
Jordan,
The clix planes are the same size as the metal minis. A lot of people have bought extras, popped the planes off their clix bases and repainted them to suit their needs. You won't have as big of a selection of planes, but you'll have a great start at a great price.


Thats good to know. The only drawback I see to the clix game at this point is having to layout the hexes to move. Not sure if a hex map would work just as well (or where to get one). I am also considering making hex templates for the maneuvers but that might not be feasible
The tiles in the Clix game are octagons, not hexes, so a hex map won't work unless you completely re-do all of the maneuvers. Even a square grid map doesn't help much because of the way the angles offset things after a few turns.

Laying them out is a little fiddly, especially if you're controlling several planes at once, but once you get the hang of things it's really not an issue. Making templates could certainly be helpful when just starting out or with new players, though.
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Ted Conn
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I've never figured out why they used octagons instead of hexagons, unless they were trying to make the planes 'more maneuverable'. Otherwise, all it did was make the game not 'gel' with practically every other flying game out there!

I agree, though. The game is fine with the octagons once you get the hang of it.
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Jordan Upham
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Petru5 wrote:
I've never figured out why they used octagons instead of hexagons, unless they were trying to make the planes 'more maneuverable'. Otherwise, all it did was make the game not 'gel' with practically every other flying game out there!

I agree, though. The game is fine with the octagons once you get the hang of it.


That is good to hear. I made an ebay trip and bid on 4 mini packs and had the rules buy it now. Each of the minis packs had no bids so $0.99 a piece. Now I'm just waiting for the seller to let me know what the combined shipping cost will be
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Kyle W.
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Petru5 wrote:
I've never figured out why they used octagons instead of hexagons, unless they were trying to make the planes 'more maneuverable'. Otherwise, all it did was make the game not 'gel' with practically every other flying game out there!
Even though it doesn't match up with established systems, it does make some sense. With a hex system you're limited to increments of 60° for turns which limits freedom of movement quite a bit and makes it fairly abstract. The octagon system drops that to 45° which gives you the equivalent of a square grid with diagonals; it's still not the complete freedom you get with an open-tabletop system (like Mechwarrior, Mage Knight, or even Wings of War), but it's a lot closer.

It's also possible that they considered using hex tiles during development but intentionally went against it to better distinguish the game from the FASA version.
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Jordan Upham
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Well, I think I did well. I was able to get Aces Wild, Deadly Duo, Red Skull Legion, Fortune Hunters, and the rules all new and shipped for < $20
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Ted Conn
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Nice! Broadway Bombers, Black Swans, Hollywood Knights, Sky Enforcers and East Meets West left to acquire!

You'll immediately notice that Thibadeaux doesn't have his Ragin' Cajun squadron. You can get an extra squadron pack or two and repaint them to suit. Also, if you get Sky Enforcers, Blake will also be without a squadron. Ditto on repaints. On the converse side, the Black Swans are leaderless (i.e., the Swan herself isn't to be found). I converted a spare Maria Sanchez and her plane to be the Swan.
 
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Jordan Upham
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What role to the leaders play? I know they have a separate game involving them but does that incorporate into the main game with the dogfighting?
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Kyle W.
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jupham wrote:
What role to the leaders play? I know they have a separate game involving them but does that incorporate into the main game with the dogfighting?
They all have a "Fate" stat (the lower right slot on their dial) that you can use in the main game to avoid some damage or add extra dice when shooting. It gives them an advantage against planes that don't have unique pilots attached to them, but there are limits on how much it can be used so it's not a game-breaker.

As a house rule, you can used some of the generic character tokens as pilots too.
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Ted Conn
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Leaders, or more specifically leaders' planes, have better stats than squadron planes. They cost more to field, too.

If you like the Aces game, then one consideration is...(brace yourself, as I'm about to go well beyond the clix game)...eventually investing in 28mm minis to replace the oversized aces. You can keep using the Aces rules, but you've opened up the game to include a myriad cast of characters. You'll have to stat the figures a la clix as well. Of course, if you're already going through all that hassle, then I'd recommend To Be Continued... by Gaslight or similar pulp rules, as the Aces rules are pretty basic.

See where an interest in one small 'world' leads? Madness, I tell you, sheer and utter madness!shake
 
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Jordan Upham
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Petru5 wrote:
See where an interest in one small 'world' leads? Madness, I tell you, sheer and utter madness!shake


Yes this is a rabbit hole. I liked the Xbox game so much and always wanted more. Years later I see something about a comic called Wile Blue Yonder (coming either late this year or next year) that reminds me of Crimson Skies. Next thing I know I have 4 packs of clix being sent to my house and I'm almost convinced I need that $70 copy of the FASA game I found. Oh, I also have the PC version being shipped to my house.
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Ted Conn
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LOL. I have both video games as well, plus everything made for both minis games, so I'm feelin' your vibe.

I think I just saw a FASA copy on eBay for less than $70.
 
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Jordan Upham
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Petru5 wrote:
LOL. I have both video games as well, plus everything made for both minis games, so I'm feelin' your vibe.

I think I just saw a FASA copy on eBay for less than $70.


For the FASA game how many minis are made? How many of each would you need to be complete?
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Ted Conn
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Dang. Let me amend my statement. I haven't bought every metal plane...I have the base game and all the supplemental books.

As for how many planes were made? A lot. A quick look at Iron Wind Metals shows 40.
 
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Jordan Upham
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Petru5 wrote:
Dang. Let me amend my statement. I haven't bought every metal plane...I have the base game and all the supplemental books.

As for how many planes were made? A lot. A quick look at Iron Wind Metals shows 40.


Ok. I can see that.
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