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Kingdom Builder: Caves» Forums » Rules

Subject: Any rule on the initial placement of caves? rss

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Brad McKenzie
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I love the idea of these caves, but was wondering who decides where to put them. I'm assuming that you would lay these caves down prior to choosing victory cards, but would there be any advantage to one person laying all of the tiles? Players take turns laying them? Mutual consent?

I'll be interested in hearing how these caves influence strategies and play styles...
 
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Donald X.
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bradandmary wrote:
I love the idea of these caves, but was wondering who decides where to put them. I'm assuming that you would lay these caves down prior to choosing victory cards, but would there be any advantage to one person laying all of the tiles? Players take turns laying them? Mutual consent?

The rule as I gave it to them was to put the cave on the first mountain hex (on each board) that wasn't within 2 of a building. Start in the upper left (as looked at with pictures right-side up) and go across, then down to the start of the next line, until you find one (or fail to, on the board that has no mountains). I don't know if they printed that rule though. The point to the rule is just to give people an answer when they don't want to decide themselves; feel free to decide yourself however you like.
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Brad McKenzie
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Thanks, Donald, for the clarification. I do appreciate it!
 
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Shane Loader
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we would probably place them the same way to place cities we just drop them on the board and whichever 1 they are closest to that's where they go
 
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donaldx wrote:

The rule as I gave it to them was to put the cave on the first mountain hex (on each board) that wasn't within 2 of a building. Start in the upper left (as looked at with pictures right-side up) and go across, then down to the start of the next line, until you find one (or fail to, on the board that has no mountains). [...] The point to the rule is just to give people an answer when they don't want to decide themselves; feel free to decide yourself however you like.


I like that rule!

donaldx wrote:

I don't know if they printed that rule though.


No, they didn't. The published rules just say:

Official rules wrote:
On each quadrant, put one of the cave tiles on any mountain hex, which is not within two hexes of a location, castle or nomad hex. [emphasis in original]


I am quite surprised that your publisher Queen Games takes the liberty to change your rules without even telling you!
I would suggest that you reprimand them for that. I hereby do so in any case! devil
You are a very good game designer, IMO one of the best out there! And Kingdom Builder is a very good and deserved Spiel des Jahres. Queen Games definitely shouldn't fiddle with your rules without even discussing it with you first!

One of the reasons I love Dominion and Kingdom Builder is because they usually have very exact and unambiguous rules. (At least in the English original, the too often much too sloppy translation of the German Dominion is another story.)

I had the same issue as the original poster when I first saw the rules for the Cave promo. It is obviously not *that* big of a deal, but I still don't find it elegant that there are neither clear rules for where to put the caves nor an obvious way to do it well randomly. I actually deducted 0.5 points from my BGG Cave rating because of this. (And I will leave it at that until Donald's posting here makes it to the status of an official addendum on the publisher's website - the published, official product is what should be rated IMO.)
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Donald X.
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Darador wrote:
I had the same issue as the original poster when I first saw the rules for the Cave promo. It is obviously not *that* big of a deal, but I still don't find it elegant that there are neither clear rules for where to put the caves nor an obvious way to do it well randomly. I actually deducted 0.5 points from my BGG Cave rating because of this. (And I will leave it at that until Donald's posting here makes it to the status of an official addendum on the publisher's website - the published, official product is what should be rated IMO.)

I don't imagine they will ever change it.

The other thing they left out was, I said to use it in games using the Tavern board. This is just so that you aren't always playing with it.
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donaldx wrote:

The other thing they left out was, I said to use it in games using the Tavern board. This is just so that you aren't always playing with it.


Another sensible rule that should have made it to official status, thanks for sharing!

I think I will mostly play it like that.
The caves have an interesting effect, but one I don't want to play with every game because it decreases the versatility of the game: With Caves, you will for instance rarely have games where it is overly important not to get caught in one spot (because most of the time you can get elsewhere via caves) - and I think the games in which the struggle for access to other areas of the board is very important are interesting as well.

Do you care to share the reason why it was particularly the Tavern board you chose for usage with Caves?
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Donald X.
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Darador wrote:
Do you care to share the reason why it was particularly the Tavern board you chose for usage with Caves?

It had to be a main set board, since that's all I know for sure that people have, and it had to have a mountain on it, and not be one of the boards that Capitol uses (just to avoid tying them together). It might as well not be a board with a movement ability. I picked one of those boards; it could have been a different one.
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Tony Bosca
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donaldx wrote:
Darador wrote:
Do you care to share the reason why it was particularly the Tavern board you chose for usage with Caves?

It had to be a main set board, since that's all I know for sure that people have, and it had to have a mountain on it, and not be one of the boards that Capitol uses (just to avoid tying them together). It might as well not be a board with a movement ability. I picked one of those boards; it could have been a different one.


Hey Donald, I've been meaning to ask this for awhile-

If our set of Kingdom Builder will likely contain the base and two expansions, do you still suggest only using the Caves when playing with the Tavern board? Are there any boards from the expansions that you would include as triggers?

*just started a new thread:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1063975/question-for-donald-...
 
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