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The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game» Forums » Variants

Subject: Now, roll a d6 or... rss

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Cordeiro Cordeirooo
Brazil
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Poll
What about using dice in Lord of the Rings? Maybe some abilities that require a successful die roll or something. Still, which one would you believe to be the best?
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
D6 - six-sided dice
11.1% 6
D10 - ten-sided dice
11.1% 6
D20 - twenty-sided dice
1.9% 1
Dice? U MAD?!
79.6% 43
Voters 54
This poll is now closed.   54 answers
Poll created by cordeirooo
Closes: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:00 am


I need your opinion to develop new mechanics when I travel east - well, when the heroes travel east, to be more precise.
I have some ideas in mind, like rolling a die and suffering damage equal to the number or an ability that only works when you roll a 6 (10 on a d10 or 20 on a d20) or whatever. Obviously, some abilities would be absolutely impractical with higher numbered dice (like the referred wounding effect above), but I want to know what YOU think is the best.

What do you guys think? Would a die complicate the game too much? Would it give yet another dimension? Give me your opinion, and if you will, elaborate as well!


Thank you.
 
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Luka Franolic
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I really doubt that adding a dice or more into this game would make it better. The whole mechanics of the game is very good and adding a dice would make it very difficult as sometimes this rules for some players are.

If you really want to make a dice game with LOTR theme I would like to suggest a Dungeons & Dragons modified for Middle-Earth. Personally I tried D&D in LOTR theme and it was quite interesting, specially when you take roll of somebody famous from LOTR universe.
 
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Peter Kossits
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I'm not sure why exactly, but one of the great charms of this game for me is that it's diceless.
 
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Cordeiro Cordeirooo
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I remember my days of Warlord: Saga of the Storm... The dice was a mixed blessing; sometimes that 20 facing-up was the joy of my day, but the 1 could also ruin a very shiny morning.

Still, I believe one mechanic or another with a single die roll could add another feeling to the game.

Well, keep voting people!
 
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Wally Jones
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Windermere
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Dice = a good way way to make an already hard game even harder.
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Stan Hilinski
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Laurel
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There are no dice because the game does not need them. The designers have used cards to implement dice effects. For example, "Draw an encounter card. If it is a location, then do something." is the same effect as "Roll a die. If the result is less than 2, then do something."
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Cordeiro Cordeirooo
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shilinski wrote:
There are no dice because the game does not need them. The designers have used cards to implement dice effects. For example, "Draw an encounter card. If it is a location, then do something." is the same effect as "Roll a die. If the result is less than 2, then do something."


Indeed. I understand that, and I want to expand on that exact aspect.
The game has another mechanic very similar to the dice - this time, at the player side: the manipulation of card costs.

The vote seems pretty obvious by now; it is not a popular idea. laugh
 
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Lipa LeChuck
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I have no problem with dice in general, however it's really hard to answer the question without some more information. Could you elaborate on your idea some more? What exactly do you have in mind, what rules would you like to implement? Specifics, please.

How can I answer whether I prefer d10 or d6 if I know virtually nothing about the actual rule that you'd like to implement?

To me, all that matters is good mechanics. If you have an interesting idea, one that would fit well with the theme and really add something to the game experience, I don't care if it uses dice or stones or matches or whatever.
 
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Onkel Zorni
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As I replied on FFG, I don't wanna see dice in this game.
 
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Cordeiro Cordeirooo
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LipaB wrote:
I have no problem with dice in general, however it's really hard to answer the question without some more information. Could you elaborate on your idea some more? What exactly do you have in mind, what rules would you like to implement? Specifics, please.

How can I answer whether I prefer d10 or d6 if I know virtually nothing about the actual rule that you'd like to implement?

To me, all that matters is good mechanics. If you have an interesting idea, one that would fit well with the theme and really add something to the game experience, I don't care if it uses dice or stones or matches or whatever.


Sure. The mechanic I was thinking about is new abilities like Stealth, that (without any test whatsoever) would work like this:

Stealth wrote:
"Stealth is a new ability on very small creatures or enemies with training in not being detected. The ability works based on the creature's natural ability or training and a dice - Stealth can go from 0 to 7.
When Revealed: Roll a die. If the result is 5 or 6, this enemy cannot be engaged and is immune to player's action until the start of the next quest phase
Forced: Before being attacked, roll a die and add the Stealth value. If the total roll minus the attacker's WILL is 5+, the attack is canceled."



Another one was as a player-side ability, called Powerattack:
Powerattack wrote:
"The Powerattack ability is present in the most fearsome and courageous men, elves and dwarves. When you attack with a character with Powerattack, you may decide to discard that character; if you do, roll a die and add the results as damage tokens on the enemy."

This wouldn't be a good idea with Heroes, but allies are a go.
I'm not that worried with player-side because people don't usually play with custom-made player cards.
 
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Brendon Russell
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cordeirooo wrote:
"LipaB" wrote:
I have no problem with dice in general, however it's really hard to answer the question without some more information. Could you elaborate on your idea some more? What exactly do you have in mind, what rules would you like to implement? Specifics, please.

How can I answer whether I prefer d10 or d6 if I know virtually nothing about the actual rule that you'd like to implement?

To me, all that matters is good mechanics. If you have an interesting idea, one that would fit well with the theme and really add something to the game experience, I don't care if it uses dice or stones or matches or whatever.
Sure. The mechanic I was thinking about is new abilities like Stealth, that (without any test whatsoever) would work like this:

"Stealth is a new ability on very small creatures or enemies with training in not being detected. The ability works based on the creature's natural ability or training and a dice - Stealth can go from 0 to 7.
When Revealed: Roll a die. If the result is 5 or 6, this enemy cannot be engaged and is immune to player's action until the start of the next quest phase
Forced: Before being attacked, roll a die and add the Stealth value. If the total roll minus the attacker's WILL is 5+, the attack is canceled."

Another one was as a player-side ability, called Powerattack:
"The Powerattack ability is present in the most fearsome and courageous men, elves and dwarves. When you attack with a character with Powerattack, you may decide to discard that character; if you do, roll a die and add the results as damage tokens on the enemy."
This wouldn't be a good idea with Heroes, but allies are a go.
I'm not that worried with player-side because people don't usually play with custom-made player cards.
I think your examples show the main arguments against dice:

Stealth - as others have already mentioned, this type of effect can and has been implemented using the encounter deck instead (off the top of my head: Escape checks from The Dead Marshes, Tentacle effects from The Watcher in the Water, Locate tests from The Long Dark). This also allows for greater control over the odds, level of variance etc. I will concede that dice are simpler, and the odds are easier to calculate and never vary, so that's fine as long as that's what you're going for.

Powerattack - the variance is much too high, which is going to be a problem with many possible die-based mechanics. 1-6 is a massive range for almost any stat or effect in this game. It's venturing too close to the point where it may as well be "flip a coin: heads you win, tails you lose". Take out the die roll and I think you have a very promising mechanic: just replace the die roll with a fixed value, e.g. damage equal to the character's Strength, or have a fixed value associated with the keyword for each card:"Powerattack 1, "Powerattack 2", etc. If you really want some variance, you could again use the deck (probably player deck this time) to provide a chance for the damage to be increased or reduced by 1, for example.
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Cordeiro Cordeirooo
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scwont wrote:
cordeirooo wrote:
LipaB wrote:
I have no problem with dice in general, however it's really hard to answer the question without some more information. Could you elaborate on your idea some more? What exactly do you have in mind, what rules would you like to implement? Specifics, please.

How can I answer whether I prefer d10 or d6 if I know virtually nothing about the actual rule that you'd like to implement?

To me, all that matters is good mechanics. If you have an interesting idea, one that would fit well with the theme and really add something to the game experience, I don't care if it uses dice or stones or matches or whatever.
Sure. The mechanic I was thinking about is new abilities like Stealth, that (without any test whatsoever) would work like this:

"Stealth is a new ability on very small creatures or enemies with training in not being detected. The ability works based on the creature's natural ability or training and a dice - Stealth can go from 0 to 7.
When Revealed: Roll a die. If the result is 5 or 6, this enemy cannot be engaged and is immune to player's action until the start of the next quest phase
Forced: Before being attacked, roll a die and add the Stealth value. If the total roll minus the attacker's WILL is 5+, the attack is canceled."

Another one was as a player-side ability, called Powerattack:
"The Powerattack ability is present in the most fearsome and courageous men, elves and dwarves. When you attack with a character with Powerattack, you may decide to discard that character; if you do, roll a die and add the results as damage tokens on the enemy."
This wouldn't be a good idea with Heroes, but allies are a go.
I'm not that worried with player-side because people don't usually play with custom-made player cards.
I think your examples show the main arguments against dice:

Stealth - as others have already mentioned, this type of effect can and has been implemented using the encounter deck instead (off the top of my head: Escape checks from The Dead Marshes, Tentacle effects from The Watcher in the Water, Locate tests from The Long Dark). This also allows for greater control over the odds, level of variance etc. I will concede that dice are simpler, and the odds are easier to calculate and never vary, so that's fine as long as that's what you're going for.

Powerattack - the variance is much too high, which is going to be a problem with many possible die-based mechanics. 1-6 is a massive range for almost any stat or effect in this game. It's venturing too close to the point where it may as well be "flip a coin: heads you win, tails you lose". Take out the die roll and I think you have a very promising mechanic: just replace the die roll with a fixed value, e.g. damage equal to the character's Strength, or have a fixed value associated with the keyword for each card:"Powerattack 1, "Powerattack 2", etc. If you really want some variance, you could again use the deck (probably player deck this time) to provide a chance for the damage to be increased or reduced by 1, for example.


See? That's why I love discussions.
I liked your tweaking very much, so much that it gave me even more ideas. I really like the concept of abilities, you know, simple sentences or words that have a mechanic behind it (surge, doomed, etc).
Seeing the great amount of good arguments (both here and at FFG) and the massive vote against it, I'll make only one scenario with dice mechanics and then move on.

Once again, thank you all.
 
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Brother Leon
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card mechanics are complex enough as they are.Dice would make it "over-random"

If you want a solo co-op dice game play death angel: a small set of rotating actions, a bit of positioning/facing tactics, and other than that everything else is pretty dice-centric
 
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