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Circus Train (First Edition)» Forums » News

Subject: Boo-Urns - GMT removes Circus Train from P500 rss

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jefF, There are some who call me... DuneKitteh
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Form their Nov 7th, 2012 Update

On the games front, we have decided to give two of the titles that we had previously put on our P500 list back to VPG, as they now have the resources to do those games at a much higher quality than before. One game, Circus Train, was not doing real well on our P500 list, and Alan noted that they have the ability to get this game back into print very quickly, which will get royalties to the designer much more quickly than we could have, given where it sat on our P500 list. The other game we are returning to VPG is Revolt & Revolution, which is actually three of their State of Siege series games packed into one box. This was a case where the game was doing ok on our P500 list, but it proved not feasible for either of our companies to free up the necessary development resources to get the third game in the pack ready for publication anytime soon. I'd guess VPG will probably re-release those games individually at the first opportunity, but I can't really speak to their production, just that we are removing this game (and Circus Train) from our P500 list as of today.

Nice to hear that VPG can do it again, and better now, but to GMT giving up.
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On the plus side, it's possible that this might now make it to print faster than was likely with GMT's P500 process. So that's good, right?

In either case, glad to hear some news on this, and looking forward to getting some more-definitive dates from VPG.
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Ryan Mayes
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Yeah, but this still makes me sad. cry

I was really looking forward to the deluxe edition of Circus Train. Now we'll have to see how VPG's new component quality does.
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Joshua Gottesman
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There were extensive discussions before GMT and VPG mutually agreed to send Circus Train back to VPG. Many, if not all, of the ideas that would have been in the GMT version will appear in the VPG version. Tom Decker already has a ton of great ideas and is anxious to move things forward. If all goes as planned, this will be a mid-2013 release.

Joshua Gottesman
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Marcelo Galvao
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Joshuaaaaaa wrote:
If all goes as planned, this will be a mid-2013 release.


Well, at least there's some good news.


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Scott Everts
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I'm disappointed that GMT isn't printing the deluxe edition but it was sadly sitting at 450 for a very long time. soblue

GMT doesn't seem to do much publicity when it comes to their preorder products which I find odd. They just seem to throw them up there and forget about them.
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Tom Decker
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Sometimes things just don't work out.

As my first published game, I guess I didn't really know how to publicize it or get people excited enough about it. After 7 more games, I still don't know the secrets. Maybe Kickstarter is the best way. My Designer Diary didn't get enough additional supporters: Designer Diary: One Year on GMT's P500

It always seemed like a dream to get published by GMT, one that seemed too good to be true and I never quite believed...I guess I finally woke up.

There have been a lot of changes at VPG, but I'll do what I can to keep their new version consistent with what you were going to get in the GMT version. If you look at their component list (oh, I guess it's down now), I'm going to try to keep most of it the same. I don't think VPG can do a 22x34 board, but 11x17 is definitely too small. I'm not sure what the "large" size boards are at VPG, but since we're getting rid of the player boards, more information needs to go on the main board, and it needs to be a larger board. We'll have to see how much cardboard we can fit into the box, too. This game has a LOT of counters when you combine the original with the expansion, so we'll have to see how many of the laser cut sheets we're going to need. I had some wood components listed on the GMT list, which VPG won't do, but they have the advantage of the laser-cut pieces, so we can make some really nice pieces out of cardboard for what might have been wood pieces.

I appreciate all the support everyone's given to the game, and I still hope that one day it gets to grow up and become a Deluxe Version.
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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ScottE wrote:
GMT doesn't seem to do much publicity when it comes to their preorder products which I find odd. They just seem to throw them up there and forget about them.

I don't think it's odd. Not everything that goes on P500 will be published, so there's no sense throwing money into marketing until you know which games will actually be sold. It's their business model at work; publish games that they know in advance their clientele will support.
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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TheRook wrote:
Maybe Kickstarter is the best way.

In my case, that would be the worst way possible. I'll buy it from VPG or GMT, but not via Kickstarter.
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Tom Decker
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Sphere wrote:
TheRook wrote:
Maybe Kickstarter is the best way.

In my case, that would be the worst way possible. I'll buy it from VPG or GMT, but not via Kickstarter.


Right...I'm aware that some people are opposed to Kickstarter and it would cost me some sales.
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Joshua Gottesman
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Nate would know for sure, and I suspect 22 x 34 is doable, at least for the mounted puzzle map. I think its just making more puzzle pieces. What it might do to cost, I'm not sure.
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Steve McClure
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Well bad news and good. I went to check on Circus Train in GMT's newsletter, and got the surprise. I'm disappointed that we won't see GMT's deluxe edition. I've been very impressed with what I've seen from a boardgame component standpoint with GMT lately. But I'm happy to hear that VPG will be able to get an upgraded edition with a mounted map into production next year.

Good Luck Tom and VPG.
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Rick Vinyard
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Sphere wrote:
TheRook wrote:
Maybe Kickstarter is the best way.

In my case, that would be the worst way possible. I'll buy it from VPG or GMT, but not via Kickstarter.

I'd back it on Kickstarter. I'd also preorder it through VPG.
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Gerit Driessen
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What is the reason people are opposed to Kickstarter? Bad experiences? Just participated in a KS project....
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Scott Everts
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Gerit wrote:
What is the reason people are opposed to Kickstarter? Bad experiences? Just participated in a KS project....

I'm not, I love Kickstarter!
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jefF, There are some who call me... DuneKitteh
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TheRook wrote:

Sphere wrote:
TheRook wrote:
Maybe Kickstarter is the best way.

In my case, that would be the worst way possible. I'll buy it from VPG or GMT, but not via Kickstarter.


Right...I'm aware that some people are opposed to Kickstarter and it would cost me some sales.


Ideally, the cost of producing extra copies of the game would be built into any predetermined KS funding goal, that way those that didn't/couldn't/wouldn't support it through KS can still get a copy direct through VPG, or another source, after the KS is over and the game has been manufactured.
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Ed Sherman
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TheRook wrote:

Sphere wrote:
TheRook wrote:
Maybe Kickstarter is the best way.

In my case, that would be the worst way possible. I'll buy it from VPG or GMT, but not via Kickstarter.


Right...I'm aware that some people are opposed to Kickstarter and it would cost me some sales.


I think more people would be excited about a Kickstarter release than would be turned off by it. Those that refused to buy could get it later through retail channels like most games that come out via Kickstarter, right?
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Gerit wrote:
What is the reason people are opposed to Kickstarter? Bad experiences? Just participated in a KS project....


Speaking for myself about an established company using KS.. I'm not interested in paying up front for a game that hasn't yet been made and that I won't receive until who knows when.
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Rick Vinyard
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Gerit wrote:
What is the reason people are opposed to Kickstarter? Bad experiences? Just participated in a KS project....

Some people don't like the financial model.

For awhile there was FUD going around that a Kickstarter pledge was a donation and the project wasn't legally obligated to actually do anything. That viewpoint was wrong.

Some prefer to see a final product.

Some object to the percentage Kickstarter takes from the project creator.

Some don't like that Kickstarter doesn't guarantee the projects, as the deal is between you and the project creator, not you and Kickstarter.

With respect to games, some would rather wait and try and get it cheaper after release, which does happen with some frequency.

I'm sure there are a ton of other reasons why people don't like it.

But, I like Kickstarter. Personally, my only real objection was to the FUD used as a legal argument to scare people away from backing projects, when the FUD had no legal basis.

Ultimately, it all comes down to a personal decision.
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Another reason might be having to drop $100 to get a copy of the game that comes with a bunch of cheap, overpriced "extras" (crap) like T-Shirts and pins and pdfs and "exclusive forum access" (ooh!) before you get to the game level.

I'm goostaringgoo at you, Ogre!

 
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Charlie Theel
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markgravitygood wrote:

I'm goostaringgoo at you, Ogre!



You don't have to order a game via kickstarter. As soon as Ogre went up on Miniature Market's site for pre-order I jumped on board. Paid $65 instead of $100.
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Good to know, thanks! I was pointing out one of the inherent flaws of kickstarter as I see it.

I wonder what my chances are of getting one of the 16 units they are getting?
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Charlie Theel
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16 units from where? Miniature Market?

If it lists a quantity remaining, then that means there are still copies available. It should decrease if people placed orders. For instance, they sold out of Netrunner before it was released (the website listed it as sold out). If it lets you order you should be getting a copy.
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Gerit Driessen
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Thanks Rick. I get the picture. KS could be a sort of pre-order system, as long as the offering party is convincing in being a reliable party.
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What it says is

"This item is on preorder, meaning that it has not yet been released. The quantity available for purchase represents the amount we will receive from our suppliers when the product releases. For our full preorder policy, please review our FAQ."

Read it however you like. I take it to mean they are getting 16 units as an initial shipment of Ogre. If you are not one of the first 16, you are likely going to wait.
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