Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
8 Posts

The Napoleonic Wars» Forums » Rules

Subject: A 2 players game rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Carré Geoffrey
France
Rosny-sous-bois
Seine Saint Denis
flag msg tools
Hello,

after 4 games my buddy and I are facing the following issue: the game seems way too much unbalanced. But everybody seems to love this game, so I guess, we are doing this all wrong.

In 2 out of 4 games, France loses or is about to lose after turn 1. And in 2 out of 4 games, France can't keep up with its ennemies and end up overwhelmed by the end of the game. In every game, France hasn t been able to force peace on Austria.

First thing it seems we are doing wrong, we give a ressource to UK, Austria and Russia, when it should only be for One player. This mistake potentially gives 2 more cards to the coalition camp. But there must be something else we are doing wrong.

So my question is: what are the changes between a multiplayer game and a 2 players game ?

Regarding the peace die roll, I think we are ok, only on card by player to influence this die roll. But regarding the rest, we still have some problems:

Impérial camp : 6 cards ( France) + 2 Cards (Spain) = 8
Coalition : 4 (UK) + 4 (Austria) + 3 ( Russia ) = 11

With the reserves, we get 11 "cards" for the imperial camp (8 + 2 France + 1 Spain = 11). And we get 15 cards for the coalition. + 1 ressource for each player = 12 against 16.

Now if we add the potential net cards the coalition might get due to its reserves + 1 for the british ( britain rules the waves, u burn one reserve and get two cards, so net yield is 1 card ) and + 1 for Russia ( once again u burn the russian reserve, and draw two cards, so net yield is 1 card).

We end up with a net result of 18 cards for the coalition, against 12 for the imperial camp. We also have to take into account that cards do not have the same value as reserves (specially regarding premption for exemple), so gross result (without taking reserve into account beside the use of them to get cards ) is 9 for the Imperial Camp and 17 for the coalition ( 11 cards, + 1 ressource, + 1 british parlment, + 2 britain rules the waves, + 2 russian reserve).

beside the card pool difference between the two camps, u have the possibility for any player to use a response card whenever he wants even though the country from which hand the card is drawn is not directly involved in the event. Thus, u might see a player using british response card to assist the russians and the austrians during a battle for Vienna for exemple. On top of that, Koutuzov is able to be almost directly on vienna on the first round with full strength. At last, the british, usually not directly threaten will be able to spend CP in diplomacy to influence it positively or negativly.

How on earth do u get any balance out of that mess ? So I guess we are missing something and that in a two players game, there are some rules or specificities which prevent such a difference between camp's hands for exemple.

Hope u might be helpful, best regards

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steffan O'Sullivan
United States
Plymouth
NH
flag msg tools
"... whack 'em, and whack 'em, and whack 'em!" cried the Toad in ecstasy, running round and round the room, and jumping over the chairs.
badge
The smell of that buttered toast simply talked to Toad, and with no uncertain voice; talked of warm kitchens, of breakfasts on bright frosty mornings, of cosy parlour firesides on winter evenings ... of the purring of contented cats...
mbmbmbmbmb
I think this post should really be in the Strategy forum rather than rules, but I do have one rules comment:

I'm not sure what you mean when you talk about preemption. That's not based on the player with the most cards, but the single Power with the most cards. So it's usually France, as it has more cards than any other single power, at least once or twice.

You're also not taking armies into consideration! The French have the most armies, and the best national combat bonus, and some excellent generals. You've also neglected that there's a good chance Spain can draw an extra card from its Reserves (which are only in Second Edition, BTW - this post is under the first edition). And there's a good chance France can deny Britain the extra card draw from the Admiralty card.

With all that said, yes, it's a challenge for France, no doubt. Strategy is so dependent on card draws, though, that I can't really tell you a specific thing to do. It really heavily depends on your hand. Keep trying - I'd much rather play France than the Coalition any day - even if I lose, I have a great time.

We do find France is ahead after Turn 1 about 90% of our games, and ahead after Turn 2 about 60%. By Turn 4, they're rarely ahead, agreed - best to win early!
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jan Ozimek
Denmark
Aalborg
flag msg tools
Must resist M:tG. Boardgames are my methadone :)
mbmbmbmbmb
When taking on Austria and Russia France must be sure to exploit their main advantage: MOBILITY!

The Russo/Austrian army is typically dependent on army groups to match the French in firepower. Army groups are much more expensive to move, and thus the French should aim at out-maneuvering them instead of simply crushing them head-on.

I'm not saying you should completely avoid battles, but you shouldn't just create a slow superstack and clash with their superstack in Vienna. Be sneaky threaten multiple keys so you force them to split up. Approaching simultaneously from the south through Venice and via the route to the north of the Alps is the absolute minimum. Typically there is more room to maneuver in the norther theater.

You don't need to conquer Austria on round one to come out ahead. Forcing the Coalition to dump a card to the peace roll is good.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carré Geoffrey
France
Rosny-sous-bois
Seine Saint Denis
flag msg tools
First thing, yeah u right, i made a mistake, this post should be in the second edition forum, my bad, I apologize.

Then, regarding the war with austria: yes premption is not a camp thing but a country thing, the one with the most cards. Usually this is what happens: the austro-russian get a super pack on Vienna, quickly rising up to 15 battle die rolls at least. Quite fast enough as well,the best austrian general defending Venice retreats to the east and soon enough gets to Budapest. Prague is protected by the super pack in Vienna (interception with kutuzuv to a friendly territory + 4) and Budapest is protected by the best austrian general available and the super pack in vienna which can intercept on this territory as well. Napoleon cannot present himself alone against these armies, he needs to come with others, so the movement is expensive and the battle very tight. On top of that, the coaliton camp has at least 3 powers able to play response cards during the battles, and if France plays battle or response card, it will run out of card before it s oponents, specially if it had to preempt.

So yes France has more troops, and better generals, powerfull reserve events and an inherent bonus of 2. Yes France is definitivly the best military power. But in this game, everything depends on the cards and on the number of card u have. France after our fist turn will get two keys from Austria, starting at 7 cards, maybe 8 if it gets keys from the english. But then, after severl round it will eventually get overwehlmed byt the coalition, specially becoz of new allies joining the coalition and it s impossibility to get new allies or to keep Spain as such.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jan Ozimek
Denmark
Aalborg
flag msg tools
Must resist M:tG. Boardgames are my methadone :)
mbmbmbmbmb
Are you playing first or second edition? In my experience (2e) it is difficult for the Coalition to have unbeatable superstacks on both the northern and southern approach. Getting to Linz ASAP with a "full" general is key.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carré Geoffrey
France
Rosny-sous-bois
Seine Saint Denis
flag msg tools
second edition, last time I arrived with Lannes and the 3 battle rank general, full strenght on Linz right away at the very first round. how come u find it harder with the second edition to make super stack ? thx for ur help
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jan Ozimek
Denmark
Aalborg
flag msg tools
Must resist M:tG. Boardgames are my methadone :)
mbmbmbmbmb
first off: You would probably get better answers if you posted in the correct place.

1) This is the first edition forums. try the second edition game entry: The Napoleonic Wars (Second Edition)

2) You posted under "Rules". This discussion belongs under "Strategy".

On to the actual question:

I don't have any experience with 1st edition, so I wouldn't know about the difference; I just wanted to make sure we were talking about the same game.

There are at least a couple of very good threads in the strategy forum, which you should read:
French Impulses 1 &2, Turn 1
and:
France and the Austro-Italian Frontier

I recommend you continue the discussion under the second edition / strategy forum. Not that I don't want to help, but some of the people over there will have more insight than I do.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carré Geoffrey
France
Rosny-sous-bois
Seine Saint Denis
flag msg tools
thx for the links !
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.