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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Can Nekro Virus accept/receive Promissory Notes? rss

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Arandor .
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Question... a Promissory Note is basically a binding contract "you vote THIS, and I will later do THAT for you in return".

And since the Nekro Virus can not vote (so they can not uphold their part of the contract...) can they accept/receive such a note?
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"It's a figure of speech, Morty"
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I'm guessing that since they're not present in assemblies, they can't receive the promissory note generated therein
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toku42 wrote:
I'm guessing that since they're not present in assemblies, they can't receive the promissory note generated therein


They ARE present. They have a Bodyguard, a Spy and a Councilor. All of them have +0 votes and the Nekro Virus can not vote anyway.

Instead:

* the Spy targets a player and says "IF the vote turns out THIS way, I copy a tech from YOU".
* the Bodyguard says "if you want to vote FOR, pay me".
* the Councilor says "boom, all Councilors are dead, discard PC".

They can even GIVE Promissory Notes just fine, in order to goad the vote a certain way.

Question is: can they receive them? Them not being present is false, so that is no argument.
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Scott Lewis
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I would say giving them to Nekro is perfectly allowed, although they still won't be able to vote, so I don't think many people would do so.
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Christopher Halbower
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I would say that it is illegal to give the Nekro Virus a Promissory Note. The rules state that if you accept a Promissory Note, you must vote a certain way. The Nekro are forbidden from voting and thus cannot vote a certain way. This is not the same thing as abstaining.
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Christian Smith
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why would this ever be useful for the giver of the note?

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Christopher Halbower
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To make a deal. I give the Necro a promissory note in exchange for one of their promissory notes.
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Jeremy
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CasMat wrote:
why would this ever be useful for the giver of the note?




If Yin is sending the "+3 TG for giving a PN" councilor
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CasMat wrote:
why would this ever be useful for the giver of the note?


Exactly. The use would be to make a deal.

But I think it is NOT allowed, because indeed: if you accept a PN, you MUST vote a certain way. If you CANNOT vote, you also CANNOT vote a certain way.

Therefore you are unable to accept it. I think.
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Scott Lewis
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For what it's worth, I've sent this ruling to Corey.

There's also another situation which could have strange implications that would also "break" the rule - if Player A had earlier given Player B his "Voting Concession" note, and then Player C gives Player A a note to vote a certain way, Player B could play his Voting Concession to force A to vote his way (and trump Player C) - at least, that's my interpretation of it (but I put that in my question to Corey as well).

I just bring this up because there are other situations that could potentially break the "you must vote this way" thing.
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Ron Hunt
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Not sure if this has any bearing on the question, but on page 14 of the FAQ, the question was:

Q: If a player does not have a Representative (and therefore may not vote) may that player still offer another player a Promissory Note?

A: Yes.

Seems to me, by this, that the ability to vote is not tied to the Promissory Note mechanic.
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Scott Lewis
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rwhunt wrote:
Not sure if this has any bearing on the question, but on page 14 of the FAQ, the question was:

Q: If a player does not have a Representative (and therefore may not vote) may that player still offer another player a Promissory Note?

A: Yes.

Seems to me, by this, that the ability to vote is not tied to the Promissory Note mechanic.

It's a slightly different situation, though; the person RECEIVING the card is required to vote a certain way, so the person GIVING the card doesn't necessarily need to be able to vote. In fact, giving a card is a way to have one's voice heard during that vote even if he wouldn't otherwise be able to contribute.

I'm not sure that answer is really pertinent to the "can Nekro receive a note" question
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Ron Hunt
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That would be true. Not sure how to arbitrate that one...
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Fedor Syagin
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sigmazero13 wrote:
In fact, giving a card is a way to have one's voice heard during that vote even if he wouldn't otherwise be able to contribute.

I'm not sure that answer is really pertinent to the "can Nekro receive a note" question


BTW what if Nekro or any other player actually is Speaker - does getting promisory note and voting certain way also force them to break ties certain ways? (I don't see it anywhere in the rules so I would say - no it doesn't, but hey - I am not sure so why not ask.)
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Scott Lewis
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garfielder wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
In fact, giving a card is a way to have one's voice heard during that vote even if he wouldn't otherwise be able to contribute.

I'm not sure that answer is really pertinent to the "can Nekro receive a note" question


BTW what if Nekro or any other player actually is Speaker - does getting promisory note and voting certain way also force them to break ties certain ways? (I don't see it anywhere in the rules so I would say - no it doesn't, but hey - I am not sure so why not ask.)

Yes, they will still break the ties. Breaking a tie vote is not itself considered voting, so being barred from voting does not inhibit that Speaker advantage.
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Scott Lewis
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I got a response from Corey, and it looks like my initial guess was wrong.

ME
COREY

Can the Nekro Virus be the recipient of a Promissory Note? They can't vote, but does that mean they can't receive one?
No. Since the Nekro Virus player cannot vote, he cannot be given a promissory note because he cannot fulfill the binding requirement of voting a particular way.

The same question would apply to a race who has no representative in the vote (such as because of Assassination).
No once again. A player needs to be able to vote the chosen way in order to gain a promissory note.

What about a situation where a player is forced to Abstain (such as via the Thugs card)?
If an ability prevents them from voting BEFORE the "Resolve Bargaining and Promissory Notes" step, then they cannot receive promissory notes. If the ability prevents them from voting after this step, they cannot vote but keep the promissory note.

Finally, what happens in a situation where Player A receives a Promissory note from Player B, binding him to vote a certain way, but then Player C, who had received the "Voting Concession" card from Player A earlier, uses the card to force Player A to vote his way instead?
Much like my answer above, when a player receives a promissory note he is bound to vote a certain way UNLESS something overrides this. Therefore, if another player plays "Thugs" or "Voting Concession" after the player has received a promissory note, the new card overrides the promise made in the "Resolve Bargaining and Promissory Notes" step.

So, it looks like the basic principle is: If you are prevented from voting BEFORE Promissory Notes are bargained for, you cannot receive one. If you are prevented from voting (or forced to vote a certain way) AFTER you receive a Promissory Note, you keep the note, but the more recent effect trumps. I can live with that, seems pretty consistent to me
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Brian Petersen
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So with this ruling, it follows that:

Q: If Nekro Virus has had "Cultural Crisis" played on him (and therefore loses the "You cannot vote" racial ability, can he receive a Promissory Note?
A: Yes.
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That would make sense to me. If they can vote, they can take a Note, since they would then be eligible to vote the way the giver wants.
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Elfwine Dawntrekker
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you could always give them a note to get them to not use their councilor
 
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dawntrekker wrote:
you could always give them a note to get them to not use their councilor


No. Promissory Notes can be used in exchange for someone voting in a given way, not for anything you please.. You can make an additional deal, but it is not binding. The rulebook is clear on this.
 
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