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Subject: My (Very Negative) Review of BattleCON rss

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Mike Frogman
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Saying that too much variety is like saying the game is too good for me to enjoy it. The game simulates a 2D fighter very well in that you can keep going deeper and deeper into it, like in training mode to learn combos when playing street fighter.

I do sort of agree about the random letter generator to pick character names though. That part made me chuckle.

And about 5 of the characters have less than fortunate art, all by the same artist. But that does not take away from gameplay in the slightest.
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Cedric Chong
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Nice read!

Recently got hold of a set of BattleCON. It's so difficult to find one at my FLGS. But after checking out Tom Vasel's excellent approval (review) of this game, I know I must get it. And I'm glad I did!

1. First game was slightly over-whelming for me. I still don't understand capabilities of my chosen character. Much less talk about my opponent's. Plus I was still trying to get familiar with the rules.

Opinion after first game:

2. Since the game is short, I got into game #2. Something suddenly clicked. Character differences.. E.g. I wanted to get near, while my opponent wanted to get far away.

Opinion after second game:

3. Game 3 through 5 made me realise the power of matching certain Base with Style for combo. Excited!

Opinion after 5 games:

4. Fifteen games later, I'm having so much fun! 10+ games had been with the same character! The replayability!! There are so much subtleties! I started paying more attention to cards my opponent played, but more so on cards that are in my opponent's hand! Particularly the one that has super high priority and can ignore your attack (Dash). Of course, this was learnt through experience.. Ie after having played my "ultimate" combo, to have my opponent Dash away... Hey, doesn't this reflect real world fighting? You learn through experience from sparing?

Opinion after 15 games:


I'm in no way a skilled player in BattleCON. Perhaps on some strange level, I can understand OP's points on "randomness". In the first two games I had strange random (?) things happening to me that I could not understand. But after 15 games, I'm starting to pay attention to my opponent more.

This really eerily reflects real world martial arts! As beginner, you focus more on your punch and the kicks. But after a few Spars, instead of blindly executing your practiced combos, you start to read your opponent's moves and react to them!

BattleCON is just a gem! I foresee replayability at perhaps 200 games.. Maybe if I can find a regular "sparring" partner I can push it to 500 games!

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Red Mage
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Anyone else think the weird reviewer here is not coming back?

Probably knows he's not going to get any support so doesn't have the courage to come back, or he just wants to rant and leave since he's too stubborn to listen to what we have to say.

Or, as some of you said, he might have just made stuff up (since most of the stuff he wrote is wrong) to make this game look bad, just being a jerk.
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Bruno Gaia
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Knuckles Eki wrote:
Anyone else think the weird reviewer here is not coming back?

Probably knows he's not going to get any support so doesn't have the courage to come back, or he just wants to rant and leave since he's too stubborn to listen to what we have to say.

Or, as some of you said, he might have just made stuff up (since most of the stuff he wrote is wrong) to make this game look bad, just being a jerk.


Sure thing: not coming back after that IS weird...

I posted a total of two negative reviews on BGG and no matter the amount of flame received, I always came back to defend my opinion...
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Vivienne Raper
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Keith: it reads like you bought BattleCON expecting improved Yomi, didn't get Yomi and felt butthurt about it.

I bought BattleCON: War of Indines for Christmas expecting more Yomi, didn't get more Yomi, but was delighted anyway. I now have two amazing fighting games. I have Kickstarted Devastation.
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Mike Frogman
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Also, about $1 worth of bags solves the storage problem. I can just pull out my 20 or so packs when I want to play with a friend and we have ourselves a player select. When the alt art version comes out we can have mirror mode.
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Jared Voshall
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I payed $200 for two full sets of Yomi decks, played the game twice, and decided that it was not for me. I could see the idea behind the game, but it just got lost in all the noise (random draw, double blind reveal) - it didn't help that both games I played were against opponents playing randomly, while I was trying to be strategic - and lost horribly anyways.
A few months later, I got BattleCon. Payed a total of $55 for the core game plus the Alternate Art edition. While I haven't gotten many more plays on it, I find BattleCon to be much more accessible, and I can actually understand how everything fits together with it (enough to do a conversion project from my fighting card game, Strictly Business - which I feel does most of what Yomi does with a single card for each player).
BattleCon just clicks. It makes sense. You can see the board, you know what you have available, and you know (roughly) what your opponent can do. In Yomi, you know the (general) idea of what they can do, but what they have in hand can be wildly different from what the character's stated strengths and weaknesses...
I'm a firm fan of BattleCon. I haven't yet sold my copy of Yomi, but I likely will. I don't see myself getting any real enjoyment out of it, which is a shame, since I was really excited about it when it came out.
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Bruno Gaia
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Magius wrote:
I payed $200 for two full sets of Yomi decks, played the game twice, and decided that it was not for me. I could see the idea behind the game, but it just got lost in all the noise (random draw, double blind reveal) - it didn't help that both games I played were against opponents playing randomly, while I was trying to be strategic - and lost horribly anyways.
A few months later, I got BattleCon. Payed a total of $55 for the core game plus the Alternate Art edition. While I haven't gotten many more plays on it, I find BattleCon to be much more accessible, and I can actually understand how everything fits together with it (enough to do a conversion project from my fighting card game, Strictly Business - which I feel does most of what Yomi does with a single card for each player).
BattleCon just clicks. It makes sense. You can see the board, you know what you have available, and you know (roughly) what your opponent can do. In Yomi, you know the (general) idea of what they can do, but what they have in hand can be wildly different from what the character's stated strengths and weaknesses...
I'm a firm fan of BattleCon. I haven't yet sold my copy of Yomi, but I likely will. I don't see myself getting any real enjoyment out of it, which is a shame, since I was really excited about it when it came out.


Not wanting to beat the dead puppy some more, but I think that when it comes to owning ONE boardgame that simulates 2D fighting video games, replacing Yomi with BattleCON makes perfect sense.
Why go for some thing that sometimes feel fake and lacks at least one crucial feature (positioning) when you can have the best money can buy for less money indeed?whistle
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Fábio Fontes
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Magius wrote:
I payed $200 for two full sets of Yomi decks, played the game twice, and decided that it was not for me. I could see the idea behind the game, but it just got lost in all the noise (random draw, double blind reveal) - it didn't help that both games I played were against opponents playing randomly, while I was trying to be strategic - and lost horribly anyways.


That says a whole dang lot, if ye ask me.

Now, regarding the whole "BattleCON is random" business, despite the absense of card draws and despite knowing the cards my opponent always has available:

You're in a ring actually fighting this other dude. He punches you right in the kisser. How the heck were you supposed to know what he was going to do?! That one obviously came outta nowhere! It... it was...

... No. It wasn't random. You just suck at it. Open your eyes, use your brain, and actually make a goddamn effort.

That's BattleCON. A fighting game for those who make an effort.
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Fontes wrote:
Magius wrote:
I payed $200 for two full sets of Yomi decks, played the game twice, and decided that it was not for me. I could see the idea behind the game, but it just got lost in all the noise (random draw, double blind reveal) - it didn't help that both games I played were against opponents playing randomly, while I was trying to be strategic - and lost horribly anyways.


That says a whole dang lot, if ye ask me.

Now, regarding the whole "BattleCON is random" business, despite the absense of card draws and despite knowing the cards my opponent always has available:

You're in a ring actually fighting this other dude. He punches you right in the kisser. How the heck were you supposed to know what he was going to do?! That one obviously came outta nowhere! It... it was...

... No. It wasn't random. You just suck at it. Open your eyes, use your brain, and actually make a goddamn effort.

That's BattleCON. A fighting game for those who make an effort.


+1000. Some people just don't want to make an effort and still they don't wanna play Monopoly either... That's paradoxical XD!
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Red Mage
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brunogaia wrote:
Fontes wrote:
Magius wrote:
I payed $200 for two full sets of Yomi decks, played the game twice, and decided that it was not for me. I could see the idea behind the game, but it just got lost in all the noise (random draw, double blind reveal) - it didn't help that both games I played were against opponents playing randomly, while I was trying to be strategic - and lost horribly anyways.


That says a whole dang lot, if ye ask me.

Now, regarding the whole "BattleCON is random" business, despite the absense of card draws and despite knowing the cards my opponent always has available:

You're in a ring actually fighting this other dude. He punches you right in the kisser. How the heck were you supposed to know what he was going to do?! That one obviously came outta nowhere! It... it was...

... No. It wasn't random. You just suck at it. Open your eyes, use your brain, and actually make a goddamn effort.

That's BattleCON. A fighting game for those who make an effort.


+1000. Some people just don't want to make an effort and still they don't wanna play Monopoly either... That's paradoxical XD!


Twelve preserve us, somebody has said the name of the game-which-must-not-be-named! The apocalypse is upon us! sauron
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Sergio Macias
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Knuckles Eki wrote:
brunogaia wrote:
Fontes wrote:
Magius wrote:
I payed $200 for two full sets of Yomi decks, played the game twice, and decided that it was not for me. I could see the idea behind the game, but it just got lost in all the noise (random draw, double blind reveal) - it didn't help that both games I played were against opponents playing randomly, while I was trying to be strategic - and lost horribly anyways.


That says a whole dang lot, if ye ask me.

Now, regarding the whole "BattleCON is random" business, despite the absense of card draws and despite knowing the cards my opponent always has available:

You're in a ring actually fighting this other dude. He punches you right in the kisser. How the heck were you supposed to know what he was going to do?! That one obviously came outta nowhere! It... it was...

... No. It wasn't random. You just suck at it. Open your eyes, use your brain, and actually make a goddamn effort.

That's BattleCON. A fighting game for those who make an effort.


+1000. Some people just don't want to make an effort and still they don't wanna play Monopoly either... That's paradoxical XD!


Twelve preserve us, somebody has said the name of the game-which-must-not-be-named! The apocalypse is upon us! sauron


It's the beginning of the end, indeed. The Lord Voldemort of boardgames has been adressed. Repent, sinners! Repent!!!
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Victor Mancha wrote:
Knuckles Eki wrote:
brunogaia wrote:
Fontes wrote:
Magius wrote:
I payed $200 for two full sets of Yomi decks, played the game twice, and decided that it was not for me. I could see the idea behind the game, but it just got lost in all the noise (random draw, double blind reveal) - it didn't help that both games I played were against opponents playing randomly, while I was trying to be strategic - and lost horribly anyways.


That says a whole dang lot, if ye ask me.

Now, regarding the whole "BattleCON is random" business, despite the absense of card draws and despite knowing the cards my opponent always has available:

You're in a ring actually fighting this other dude. He punches you right in the kisser. How the heck were you supposed to know what he was going to do?! That one obviously came outta nowhere! It... it was...

... No. It wasn't random. You just suck at it. Open your eyes, use your brain, and actually make a goddamn effort.

That's BattleCON. A fighting game for those who make an effort.


+1000. Some people just don't want to make an effort and still they don't wanna play Monopoly either... That's paradoxical XD!


Twelve preserve us, somebody has said the name of the game-which-must-not-be-named! The apocalypse is upon us! sauron


It's the beginning of the end, indeed. The Lord Voldemort of boardgames has been adressed. Repent, sinners! Repent!!!


Oh C'mon guys, the M game can be quite fun with a variant and a LOT of alcohol!
ninja
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Sergio Macias
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brunogaia wrote:
Oh C'mon guys, the M game can be quite fun with a variant and a LOT of alcohol!
ninja


The same thing could be said about a colonoscopy. Are you willing to have one?
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Bruno Gaia
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Victor Mancha wrote:
brunogaia wrote:
Oh C'mon guys, the M game can be quite fun with a variant and a LOT of alcohol!
ninja


The same thing could be said about a colonoscopy. Are you willing to have one?


AH AH AH AH AH!!!
Yeah but... Okay had that stuff you're talking about last year and to be honest, since you're sedated, I'd rather have colonoscopy while I sleep than the M game while I'm awake laugh

Of course if you compare with colonoscopy while awake, then the M game wins hands down, or so I surmise... whistle
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Sergio Macias
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brunogaia wrote:
Victor Mancha wrote:
brunogaia wrote:
Oh C'mon guys, the M game can be quite fun with a variant and a LOT of alcohol!
ninja


The same thing could be said about a colonoscopy. Are you willing to have one?


AH AH AH AH AH!!!
Yeah but... Okay had that stuff you're talking about last year and to be honest, since you're sedated, I'd rather have colonoscopy while I sleep than the M game while I'm awake laugh

Of course if you compare with colonoscopy while awake, then the M game wins hands down, or so I surmise... whistle


Let's say it's a tie, then xDD
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Berjerber Sanchez
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oh man, i love drinking monopoly. it's really meant to be a drinking game. every time somebody passes go, you take a shot. every time they buy property, you take a shot. every time they build houses or hotels, you take a shot. every time doubles are rolled, you take a shot. and last but not least, every time dice are rolled, you take a shot. it's almost as good as the jerry springer bleepslap drinking game.
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Robert Seater
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I, for one, appreciate an honest negative review. They are often more helpful then glowing ones, especially when (like this one) they include detail and justification. Agree or not, this kind of review is really helpful, and I hope the OP isn't discouraged by the negative backlash.
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Red Mage
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rseater wrote:
I, for one, appreciate an honest negative review. They are often more helpful then glowing ones, especially when (like this one) they include detail and justification. Agree or not, this kind of review is really helpful, and I hope the OP isn't discouraged by the negative backlash.


Thing is, what if the negative review is false on half the content because the OP made them up on the spot to make the game look bad? This review isn't totally honest.
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Bruno Gaia
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Knuckles Eki wrote:
rseater wrote:
I, for one, appreciate an honest negative review. They are often more helpful then glowing ones, especially when (like this one) they include detail and justification. Agree or not, this kind of review is really helpful, and I hope the OP isn't discouraged by the negative backlash.


Thing is, what if the negative review is false on half the content because the OP made them up on the spot to make the game look bad? This review isn't totally honest.


@Red Mage: I think it IS honest. It's just that it's full of assumptions that anyone who's played Battlecon will immediately mark as false or being the result of playing the game with one shot too many under your belt...
Maybe the OP had drinking M before trying Battlecon laugh

That OR he's just a huge fan of Yomi and resents the fact that his favourite game gained a challenger that will obviously surpass it...
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Berjerber Sanchez
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Honestly? the guy did not give a fair review, i will straight up say it. i really do think that it is very... noble... of people to stand up for him and his right to say what he did (which he does have that right), but it is not an amount of courtesy his review deserved. does the game have flaws? of course... all games do. is the fact that it's multiplayer one of them? NO. saying that the opponent is a random factor that throws the game into chaos is just ignorant. using the same logic, you can prove that chess is random and that's just something i can not agree to.

too much content? ok, i can see that being an issue and while there are ways around that, it is part of the game. sometimes a simpler game is nice and for that he has it.

the grid not making sense though? THE GAME IS BASED ON THE GRID (and your choices of course). that's like saying tic-tac-toe doesn't make sense unless you add a third horizontal line or remove any set of lines that can form the pound symbol.

all that said, it just really grinds my gears when people say that the 15 available options are too many. think about it, half of those options wouldn't even hit, 3 are dashes, and a few are incredibly likely to lose based on what is in their discard piles (strike and grasp in the discards? best not burst). in the end, you have 15 possible options but only 3-7 real options that help you.
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David J
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Quote:


This is more valid. It's very difficult to know what the other player's options are without a good memory or a cheat sheet. I wish there was a way around this.



A cheat sheet with all the character's styles would be amazing.
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dorktron2000 wrote:
Quote:


This is more valid. It's very difficult to know what the other player's options are without a good memory or a cheat sheet. I wish there was a way around this.



A cheat sheet with all the character's styles would be amazing.


I completely agree. It would come very handy.
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Magius wrote:
I payed $200 for two full sets of Yomi decks, played the game twice, and decided that it was not for me. I could see the idea behind the game, but it just got lost in all the noise (random draw, double blind reveal) - it didn't help that both games I played were against opponents playing randomly, while I was trying to be strategic - and lost horribly anyways.


If you play any game twice and don't understand it... maybe it's time to play it more? I mean the first 2 times I played... Street Fighter, Starcraft, Call of Duty, etc., I did not get it at all. Only by playing it more was I able to uncover how to play the game properly.

There's a way to beat random players. BLOCK.

That's right. There is an optimal way to play Yomi. You block/throw early on, then move to attacks, then you finish up with dodges. The reason why you block first is to build up a hand of cards. With that hand, you try to build those combos that are devastating. Then at the end game, you play dodges to squeeze in those last points of damage to win the game. And that's the structure.

I'm not saying BattleCON is a bad game, but I find many of the posters here to have a limited or inaccurate view of how Yomi plays. Yomi is criticized as being nothing as RPS, but guess what? BattleCON is doing the same thing! You reveal when he does, maybe he'll beat you, maybe he won't. You can keep track of the cards in Battle CON? Well in Yomi, he's either going to block/dodge, attack or throw!

I find there's a lot more content to absorb with BattleCON because of each characters 8 or so styles that you have to be familiar with. Keith made a good point where in order to play these types of games, you have to anticipate what the opponent is going to do, otherwise it does become luck. With Yomi, I know the most my opponent can do is 3 options and they know that for me too. With BattleCON I have to be aware of the 8 bases and 8 styles. In Yomi, I've got to understand the way 10 characters work, but in BC, there are 18.

Again, I think both games have their points, but some of these criticisms on Yomi don't make sense, when they apply to a degree to BattleCON.
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David J
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Victor Mancha wrote:
dorktron2000 wrote:
Quote:


This is more valid. It's very difficult to know what the other player's options are without a good memory or a cheat sheet. I wish there was a way around this.



A cheat sheet with all the character's styles would be amazing.


I completely agree. It would come very handy.


Sweet! According to Kickstarter Update #20, we are getting what we wished for.
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