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Subject: notional units rss

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Doug Harned
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Reading the rules on notional units it appears that they are "created" during a paradrop or invasion. So here's the hypothetical:

A hex is defended by a 2 strength infantry unit. The hex contains a city. The attack occurs during a surprise round. The 2d10 combat table is being used.

Scenario 1:
A 6 strength land unit attacks. Result: 6/2 = 3:1 (-1 for the city).

Scenario 2:
A 6 strength land unit is supported by a 4 strength airborne unit. Result: 10/3 = 3:1 (-1 for city, +1 for flipped notional). Adding the paratroopers has only reduced the roll from -1 to even.

Scenario 3:
A 6 strength land unit supported by a 4 strength airborne and a 4 strength invasion. Result: 14/4 = 4:1 (-1 for city, +2 for two flipped notional units)

So I'm asking is the above correct? If so it seems inaccurate/unrealistic that in a land attack no notional is there, but as you add paratroopers and invasion forces to the combat the notionals start appearing "out of nowhere".

Please take a look and see if you think this is correct, and if there are thoughts on the additive effect of the notionals.

Thanks.
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Steve Fowler
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None looks correct to me, but I think you have confused me with the examples.
2 strength inf unit? in addition to the notional?

If the hex is invaded and/or paradroped on notional factors may or may not be added at the controller's option.If any are added the attacker receives a +1 mod on the 2d10 table, no matter how many notional factors are added. These factors are now added to any units that occupy the hex under attack to figure the final attack odds.

Just apply the mods due to the various conditions, zoc, city , surprise, supply, etc. and choose to add the factors to the hex if you choose.
Figure the odds and add the 2d10 mods for a final result and roll the die.
Many times the +1 mod to the 2d10 table the attacker gets for the defender using notional factor(s)and the decrease in odds to the attack when notional(s) is used is a wash.


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Grog Jones
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Just a couple of additional points - although the rules aren't totally explicit, I believe there is only ever one notional unit, even if you are attacking the hex with PARA and an invasion. So your second example is incorrect, it would be 14:3 with +1 for flipped unit, +1 for city and +1 for the PARA.

Second, in my personal view the notional unit isn't primarily representing regular troops (maybe some local police or security forces), it is mostly there to represent the additional tactical difficulty in staging invasions and para drops.
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And so the moral of the story, Doug, is go big or stay home.
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Doug Harned
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I agree that the notional unit(s) simply represents the tactical difficulties inherent in an invasion or paradrop. But what I find inaccurate is if a unit is being attacked in a standard land battle then there is no notional. But if you add paratroopers or invasion forces to the same land combat then you could actually be penalizing the attacker by adding defensive factors to the combat.

For a specific example: The Axis DOW Spain. The Spanish have a 2-5 (CAV) in Tangier (south of Gibraltar). One the first impulse the Italians attack the 2-5 with 10 points. The 2-5 is doubled for being in the mountains so the odds are 2:1 (10/4). If the Germans add a 4 strength PARA it is still 2:1 (14/6) with the only addition being the +1 for the face down notional. Seems the axis have added 40% more combat strength and gained very little.

I believe the above example is correct in terms of the rules, but seems unrealistic. To me it would be more realistic to simply add the paratroops combat factors without any notionals. For a historic example I'd site the 82nd and 101st divisions dropping behind the Utah beach landing sites. These units dramatically helped the invasion and were considered a necessary component by Eisenhower. Basically the addition of the paratroopers weakened the defenders, not strengthen them.

Thoughts?
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Rober Khan
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Hi, Doug!

This issue has come to my mind often, too. Your example is almost correct, except that the PARA also get a +1. So, by paradropping a unit you get +1 for the fd notional plus +1 for the PARA itself. That's a juicy +2!

Anyway, the way I rationalize notional is to assume that they represent lesser military units not represented by counters. Counters actually represent battle-ready, powerful full units. The ones you need to maneouver and do operational-level fighting. However, small garrisons, paramilitary forces, policial forces, units being trained and equiped in the rearguard, even non battle-fit big units, have no representation in WiF, as they would be countless and not so important for operational-level fighting. But there are several rules that represent their influence:
1- Notional units, of course. In the first compasses of a paradrop or an invasion, even small units can have capital importance.
2- Land units movement rates. Why can a motorised Corps advance only 500 km. (four hexes) in a week (a summer fine impulse)? Are they not motorised? Probably it's the fighting with those lesser units what is slowing them, even if not causing damage to the unit itself. Of course, this leaves an open window for faster movement in friendly well controlled territory. Maybe some house-ruling would be useful here.
3- ZOCs. This represents the dispersion of the forces of a main unit, of course, but is somehow related to the idea of lesser units.
4- Conquest rules. You know; you take the capital and the factories of any home country and in the Conquest Step you get all of it's unoccupied hexes for free. You can imagine fast columns rushing the rest of the land destroying pockets of defence, surrendering enemy big units and cities and so on. Hundreds of miles away from your main fat Corps!

Lastly, just look at the size of the Red Army in the Barbarossa scenario. It's like two thirds of the German Army that will overrun it in summer. However, we know that, in raw numbers, it was a monstruous organization with more than 20.000 tanks (or wheeled trucks)! Where are all those units? In my opinion, the answer is that, given the poor performance of many of those units in real Barbarossa, the designers of the game decided to not represent them. They are there, but they are not significant. Only if you paradrop on an "empty" hex behind Russian lines

Damn, how many times did I use the word "represent"? I have to improve my English.
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Doug Harned
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Thanks for the thoughts.

Where is the rule for the +1 for PARA? Somebody else had mentioned it, but I looked last night and couldn't find it in the rules. If it is the case that PARA's get +1 then that is a better reason to use them. +2 overall is a decent shift in the odds.
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Rober Khan
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It's written in mods list in the 2D10 combat chart, but I cannot find a link to it now. Where the hell did I get it from? blush

Depending on the version of the chart, you get +1 for each paradropping unit or just +1 for any number of paradropping units. but I sepeak from memory again.
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Wendell
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Roberkhan wrote:
It's written in mods list in the 2D10 combat chart, but I cannot find a link to it now. Where the hell did I get it from? blush

Depending on the version of the chart, you get +1 for each paradropping unit or just +1 for any number of paradropping units. but I sepeak from memory again.


I believe it's +1 per paradropping unit. Printed on the chart as I recall.
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Rober Khan
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But I've seen some versions of the chart; are they all official or just fanmade? I remember having seen a very interesting "+1 per out of supply defending unit" or something similar which I liked. Seemed fair to punish isolated units, even if they are not face down.
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Wendell
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Roberkhan wrote:
But I've seen some versions of the chart; are they all official or just fanmade? I remember having seen a very interesting "+1 per out of supply defending unit" or something similar which I liked. Seemed fair to punish isolated units, even if they are not face down.


That particular modifier definitely isn't official! Interesting idea though.
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Doug Harned
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There it is. Right on the 2d10 chart under modifications:

"+1 for each paradropping unit after air to air combat and antiaircraft fire (if any)."

Thanks guys. Wish I had more than one PARA.
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Rober Khan
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I always buy two !
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Grog Jones
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I've never seen anything definitive to stop this, but as written on the table, even a PARA DIV gives you the +1. So the two US PARA Divs becomes an extremely attractive +2 modifier (and I finally have a reason to build the CW or German Air Transportable MTN Divs) - especially so when the US C54 arrives in 43 and you only need one ATR to carry them.
 
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Rober Khan
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Doesn't the "divs only give half of their Corps equivalent modifier" rule apply here? I would assume + 0.5 per paradropping division. But I doubt in the case of SKI divs... do they give a full +1 each when attacking in snow or blizzard?
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Wendell
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Jes Nogger wrote:
I've never seen anything definitive to stop this, but as written on the table, even a PARA DIV gives you the +1.


It does. Though I think this might be changed when the new rules come out some time this year.
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