$10.00
Recommend
13 
 Thumb up
 Hide
48 Posts
Prev «  1 , 2  | 

Pirates vs. Dinosaurs» Forums » General

Subject: Everything that is wrong with Kickstarter. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Josh Cappel
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Link to the pre-final Pirates vs Dinosaurs rules is HERE:

http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/86206/pirates-vs-dinosaurs...

If you like what you see, please click through and back the kickstarter campaign HERE:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1649598142/pirates-vs-di...

Thanks!

~Josh
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Launius
United States
Johns Creek
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
I will try and answer:

"When you play a dinosaur on someone, what is the basis for your decision? Is it bashing the leader or are there other strategic elements in the decision?"

You cannot really "bash" the leader as there can only be 2 encounters on any player and only 1 can be a dinosaur. Your goal is to hinder their exploration, deplete their supplies and crew if possible. This design element (some will love, others may not) replaces a random deck with decisions by players. The key strategy and decision point is do I play this bad card of some type on a player or hold it for the benefit the special on the bottom grants me (Defenders fans think special card bonuses to see it better). Additionally, you may want to play a minor encounter on yourself just to block others. Additionally, you can't become card play wild as you only draw 2 cards each turn (Pirate's Fate card play may get you more) so you have to manage your card play - both good and bad.

Is it a catch-up mechanism or is it a way to have the players be the game (as in DM-less dungeon crawls)?

Not a catch up mechanic - changes random encounters into controlled encounters with a DM.

For example, from my perspective, in Farmageddon, it is fine when playing with 2 players, but unfun to bash specific other players when playing with more than 2.

Game play is nothing like Farmageddon (no insult intended to Farmageddon fans). I have played Farmageddon and it is a card play game of good and bad cards. Pirates VS Dinosaurs is a 3 phase game: Phase 1 - Strategic Outfitting of the landing party (Items, Weapons, number of crew), Phase 2 - Exploration in which players search for their landmarks to find the treasure (this is the heart of the game, the longest part of the game and the part in which encounters are played on each other) and then Phase 3 - the digging of the treasure (this is a push your luck period when the players find treasure and try not to wake the guardian ghosts or trigger the sinking of the island (oh, and the pirates, being pirates, can attack rather than dig - after all digging is hard work, easier to just take your treasure, maybe?!)

There are levels to this game, it is quick moving, and as I have stated fun to play (my opinion, so take it that I may be biased).

Thanks - Richard
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael
United States
Anchorage
Alaska
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Richard Launius wrote:
I responded to an earlier post and shared my viewpoint as well as defined the game a little broader, so I doubt there is much I can add here. But I will state that people are entitled to their opinions regardless of what they may be about this game, the KS program specifically or in general, and whether they choose to support the project or not. Therefore, the same should go for me as far as my opinion.

1) This is an excellent game and not comparable to Munchkin (no criticism of Munchkin here - it is a great selling game), but because you play cards on other players does not make it just a take that encounter game. The game has many strategic opportunities and, to some extent an economic engine (outfitting, envoys for more pirates, etc...) that drives much of the strategy the players use. Yes, it has dice and a light theme, but I prefer to think of it as more of a fantastic and sci-fi theme than light.

2) Yes, the introduction from Jim mentioned he wanted to create a game in honor of his son playing with pirates and dinosaurs as a 5 year old. This was a nostalgic reference and in no way a reflection of the game play. I suspect most people know that. Having grown children myself, I understand the nostalgic gesture, but beyond the gaming including combat with pirates and dinosaurs, there is nothing related to the 5 year old's play.

3) The timing of the KS program has not been great, the initial information, rewards and even communication may not have been what people wanted and therefore it looks as if the project will fail on KS. I am not sure that is a bad thing as I know this game will get published one way or another because it is a really fun game to play. That is the one thing I will underscore here, the game is fun, really fun and if you play games to have fun I think you will probably like it (believe it or not everyone does not play games to have fun - I have learned over the years that people play for different reasons).

4) The game went on KickStarted because there appears to be a trend in the industry for companies (not just start up new designers and businessmen) to get funding on KS rather than a P500 process. I believe game companies are divided about using KS as it is a different process for them and has a learning curve, but if the industry trend is moving toward KS many will move that way and for those that do, the first time can be a learning process and I think it has been for Jim. He has tried to do things right and at the same time get the project moving because it has been delayed a long time awaiting art. I think the artwork and components are fantastic and they have been posted as the KS campaign progressed, but it does not appear that theses actions will get us there. I hope we move the project needle significantly in the next 5 days to the goal, but it will take a lot of support at this point and not likely.

5) It is my opinion, and you can take it for what it is worth (remembering I accept your opinions) that some of you are being a little harsh toward Jim (the owner of Jolly Rogers) in your comments. I know you may not mean to be, but when I read the some of the criticisms it looks like piling on at times for the errors of the campaign. Now, I grant you that the discussion is why is the KS campaign failing and the responses are reasonable in that context, but I know Jim is doing what he can during a hectic time for him and that as his first campaign on KS he went in not as aware as he should have been on what the expectations were by the supports of KS campaigns and has worked to explain and update as best he could. One person on another post made the statement that it appears the publisher does not believe in the game and posted it on KS to drop it - that is totally untrue. Jim believes in the project and is too honorable of a person and businessman to ever do something like that.

6) It took a long time, but I believe the art and components of this game to be great. It was this delay to get this art that prompted Jim to go to KS over the holidays and that appears to be a bad decision but I appreciate him for it all the same as I know he did it because he felt bad for me about how long it has taken to complete the art and pre-press stuff. Keep in mind, most KS programs do not have the final art and ready to press so you get it in 2 - 3 months, most are like a year (and that is a year that they have your money) so I hope people appreciate the commitment Jim has made here, at least if you have supported the campaign.

7) Richard is one of the few designers that I can confidently say has not made a bad game. Yes his games are very thematic and that can chase off some potential fans but he makes good to great games. Heck Arkham Horror years after release is still in the BGG top 100 games of all time. I seriously doubt this will be anything even closely resembling a Munchkin clone as some have suggested.
Back to the heart of this discussion, good games and bad games have been funded on KickStarter at various levels and I suspect good games and bad games have not been funded. In any regard, it is a new process for companies to use and there is a learning curve. As for me, I have stated before I prefer my games not be KS, but this is actually my 3rd to be on it and based on what I have seen, the non-establishment game companies handle KS better than the established ones - at least that is my assessment regarding my games to date. While I hope we get commitment to reach our goal on KS, I am prepared for the campaign to fail and look forward to working with Jim to get the game out through other options as I know he is committed to the publication of the project.

To those of you that are supporting the game, you have my commitment to see that we get it published and that it is a top notch product. For those of you that have decided not to support the game, I do thank you for your consideration and hope you find the games that bring you the most enjoyment this coming year.

Richard


Sorry Richard in advance, I did a ninja edit there.
I also want to add the lack of rules argument, while it is a valid comment, the fact that Kickstarters such as sedition wars cleared 6 figures without rules being posted kind of says rules are not mandatory.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Franklin
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
Have just read the rules, it sounds a bit like Thebes - quite a bit of game, but bad tile draws can doom you. Thebes also has the push-your-luck aspect with how many tiles you dig at a site.

What is the game like if everyone uses the cards for the positive effects and there is no attacking when at the same site? Does it become a race game? Or do the dig site tile draws become even more important?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Launius
United States
Johns Creek
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
What is the game like if everyone uses the cards for the positive effects and there is no attacking when at the same site? Does it become a race game? Or do the dig site tile draws become even more important?

In all the playtest games I was on or watched, there was never a time when no encounters were played. I doubt that will happen and I hope they get played as in them lay a major part of the fun, and story.

If, however the players did not play encounters on each other, it would be even more of a race to find your 2 landmarks. The reason that players do not take this strategy of not playing encounters is that if things start out nice and friendly (by the way, the game is never too vicious) as soon as 1 player finds one of their landmarks, someone trailing them will try to slow them down with an encounter. But for the sake of discussion, if all pirates reach the site closely timed and each has the same number of crew to carry treasure (hard for me to imagine that ever happening) then the treasure pull would be more important. Of course, even then, someone may stay longer, risking the guardian ghosts or island sinking, or someone pulling lesser treasure may just decide to attack one of the other pirates (keep in mind you are pirates and sooner or later someone is bound to act like one), or someone may pull a Dino attack from the Dig, and face combat anyway.

There is a lot going on in this game, and while there is luck (controlled luck, but luck just the same) I do not think players will win or lose to the luck (especially the treasure pull luck), but rather to the their decisions in the play of the game from phase 1 through phase 3.

Thanks - Richard
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Franklin
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
Awesome, thanks. These could be the start of a good FAQ. I'll pipe down now.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael
United States
Anchorage
Alaska
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Thought I would pipe in here again. Full Disclosure, I want this game funded so I can get a copy of it, I know shallow ulterior motives right?

Anyways is this correct expected shipping is February 2013, as in next month? Even with Kickstarter's .. track record... that is at most 60-ish days from now?

That's actually... kind of... nice to see for once.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David C
United States
Aurora
Colorado
flag msg tools
mb
Kassanova wrote:
When some plastic T&A strapped on a game that isn't finished or fully play tested can pull in $1.6 million but a game from a known designer with a proven track record of not just good but GREAT games can't even break $22,000.00 all I can do is...
shake

/facepalm.


Are there any other differences, in say, the presentation of each kickstarter, that might be worth a mention?

Seriously, no prototype video... no light overview... no reviews... no playtester hyping... I want to want this game, so badly. But when there's so much awesome up and through boardgamegeek between new releases and other kickstarters, it's asking a bit much to say, "read these beta rules if you're not convinced".

I mean, even a box with some prototype artwork on it, would be nice. Something I don't have to use so much imagination to think about owning.

Instead, all I have is, "but it's Richard L!" ...which does go a ways, but honestly, I need a bit more to inspire the emotion in me to part with $55 for a game. For an extra $30, I can get so many plastic pieces in what looks to be a ton of awesomeness.

EDIT: So, what I'm saying, is that it's not a failure of the game as much as a failure to pilot a kickstarter project. I'm looking forward to the relaunch.

Take a look at Nothing Personal. They made that game a like party I wanted to go to...even if I didn't like the game. Meanwhile, moongha invaders kickstarter had Martin Wallace, and I'm not sure it did better.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
binary sunrise

Christiansburg
Virginia
msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Richard Launius wrote:

beyond the gaming including combat with pirates and dinosaurs, there is nothing related to the 5 year old's play.


Then why lead with this? There have been many KS projects that *are* designed by kids, or by other people who have an "idea" but clearly do not have the follow-through/design/skill/publicity to actually get a decent game made. As many have pointed out, it takes some effort to find out how cool this game is. Casual potential KS backers might skip right past it.

Richard Launius wrote:

It is my opinion, and you can take it for what it is worth (remembering I accept your opinions) that some of you are being a little harsh toward Jim (the owner of Jolly Rogers) in your comments.


I understand, but also understand that a lot of these comments are people venting their frustration over the possibility of an awesome game not succeeding.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thanasis Patsios
Greece
Athens
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Grumsh wrote:
Thought I would pipe in here again. Full Disclosure, I want this game funded so I can get a copy of it, I know shallow ulterior motives right?

Anyways is this correct expected shipping is February 2013, as in next month? Even with Kickstarter's .. track record... that is at most 60-ish days from now?

That's actually... kind of... nice to see for once.


I noticed that too. Would also like an answer.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Launius
United States
Johns Creek
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
As far as shipping in February, only Jim can answer this in detail, but from what I see it is certainly achievable. I am proofing the non-KS cards now - the prepress is almost done and could go off to the printer next week - so this timeline is reasonable.

Keep in mind, Jim approached KS much differently than most people and that means he made some mistakes, but there are also benefits to his approach. He is ready to go to press - no long wait for the game. He may be off by 30 days, but this could be done.

Richard
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thanasis Patsios
Greece
Athens
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Richard Launius wrote:
As far as shipping in February, only Jim can answer this in detail, but from what I see it is certainly achievable. I am proofing the non-KS cards now - the prepress is almost done and could go off to the printer next week - so this timeline is reasonable.

Keep in mind, Jim approached KS much differently than most people and that means he made some mistakes, but there are also benefits to his approach. He is ready to go to press - no long wait for the game. He may be off by 30 days, but this could be done.

Richard


I know it's probably pointless ath this time, unless Jim starts the campaign over, but this is easily one of the strongest points in the project and it's not even mentioned. It must be one of THE most debated issues (release date + delays) in more than 10 projects I've backed.
5 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
binary sunrise

Christiansburg
Virginia
msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree. That's awesome that it's finished and close to being ready to print/ship. I'd love to have that highlighted in the opening paragraphs, instead of the development hell the game went through.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Dietz
United States
Sigel
Illinois
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
Richard Launius wrote:
As far as shipping in February, only Jim can answer this in detail, but from what I see it is certainly achievable. I am proofing the non-KS cards now - the prepress is almost done and could go off to the printer next week - so this timeline is reasonable.

Keep in mind, Jim approached KS much differently than most people and that means he made some mistakes, but there are also benefits to his approach. He is ready to go to press - no long wait for the game. He may be off by 30 days, but this could be done.

Richard


sorry for lack of punctuatin and spelling...phones suck.

february is easy. the delay would be customs and transit time. those could push it to march. anything pastthat means we have a trade war btwn china and the us

mistakes are perspective. i tend to beleive i went by the book as ks wants it and learned few do it that way.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Y. Chung
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
We're really close to reaching funding. We've had about $2,000 in funding today and we need $2,100 each of the last 3 days... very possible given how most KS projects do well during the last days of a campaign.

Let's keep spreading the word and making this a reality.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
binary sunrise

Christiansburg
Virginia
msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Ooh, best day yet!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeremie Miller
msg tools
Perhaps a silly question, but I am not familiar with kickstarter, this is the first time I have backed a campaign, but:

If the funding gets close, let's say just over $20k is there a rule in kickstarter that someone can't "donate" the last $2k to hit the goal, and then just get that money back, and use the other $20k to fund the project?

You wouldn't, in reality, hit the $22k goal, but you would at least get $20k (minus kickstarter fees of course)

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tiamat
United States
Plymouth
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmb
If you donate the crucial $2000 and then remove it, all prior to the deadline, the project is not funded.

edit:
and if you donate it, and let the deadline hit, then it is funded, but you can't take your donation back.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeremie Miller
msg tools
Sorry for not being clear. I mean:

$20k raised
$2k added in to make goal
$22k goal reached

Kickstarter distributes the funds.
$2k is given back to person that pledged it (so the kickstarter portion is over)
Game is finished off with the remaining funds.

So you wouldn't remove the pledge before kickstarter ended, you would just get the money back from Jolly Rogers post kickstarter.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tiamat
United States
Plymouth
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmb
I think you could do that but I'm sure if J.R. really wanted to proceed with it they could chip in the last bit themselves. I bet that happens all the time actually
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Tharp
United States
Springfield
Missouri
flag msg tools
designer
Hobby game designer, please print and play my games!
mbmbmbmbmb
Jim from Jolly Roger explained in the comments under the last update on Kickstarter that this is against the rules and thus he isn't going to do it because he has integrity.

I say good for him.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeremie Miller
msg tools
Ah, I didn't realize there were comments for each update to read, so now I see Jim's response to this, thanks for pointing it out.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Prev «  1 , 2  | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.