$10.00
Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
18 Posts

Wilderness War» Forums » Rules

Subject: Supply rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Mansfield Mansfield
msg tools
mbmbmb
We have a question about the supply chain :

12.21 Each space, except the space being supplied, must have at
least one of the following characteristics:
• Water-connected to each adjacent space in the chain (including
the supplied space, if adjacent)

This 2 sentences seems contradictory, isn't?

for exemple : Moncalm move from Crown point (french fort ) to hudson carry south to siege english fort . N fortification in HCN, or Ticonderoga. Montcalm is in supply? Why?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Randy C
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
mbmbmb

Agree the rule is not written perfectly. This is how I have always played it.

For supply by land, all spaces from the supply source to the space to be supplied must have a fortification, except the space being supplied does not need a fortification.

For supply by water, all the connections from the supply source to the space being supplied must have be water, including the connection to the space being supplied.

Land and water combinations are ok.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mansfield Mansfield
msg tools
mbmbmb
ok, so, for you, Moncalm can 't siege HCS?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Randy C
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
mbmbmb

He can once he builds a fortification in Hudson Carry North.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Evans
United States
Berlin
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Mansfield76 wrote:
We have a question about the supply chain :

12.21 Each space, except the space being supplied, must have at
least one of the following characteristics:
• Water-connected to each adjacent space in the chain (including
the supplied space, if adjacent)

This 2 sentences seems contradictory, isn't?

for exemple : Moncalm move from Crown point (french fort ) to hudson carry south to siege english fort . N fortification in HCN, or Ticonderoga. Montcalm is in supply? Why?


My opinion.

Montcalm is in supply in Hudson Carry South in your example because Crown Point to Ticonderoga to Hudson Carry North has "water-connected to each adjacent space in the chain". And Hudson Carry South is "except the space being supplied"

I don't really know what "including the supplied space, if adjacent" means so I have been disregarding it. Perhaps, I am missing something.

The more I read, it the more I doubt myself though.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Evans
United States
Berlin
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I am so unsure on this one, that I gave the opposite answer last time it was discussed.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/6980480#6980480

But I seemed more sure of myself then.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Alexopoulos
United States
Clifton Park
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Calxx55 wrote:

Agree the rule is not written perfectly. This is how I have always played it.

For supply by land, all spaces from the supply source to the space to be supplied must have a fortification, except the space being supplied does not need a fortification.

For supply by water, all the connections from the supply source to the space being supplied must have be water, including the connection to the space being supplied.

Land and water combinations are ok.


Agree with this.

Mansfield76 wrote:
ok, so,for you, Montcalm can't siege HCS?

Calxx55 wrote:

He can once he builds a fortification in Hudson Carry North.


Agree with this too. HCN has a water connection to Ticonderoga but does not have a water connection to HCS. This is where the "including the supplied space, if adjacent" comes into play. Since the water connection is not to the supplied space, a fortification is needed in HCN for HCS to be in supply.
3 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Smith
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
This supply rule has caused me more headaches than any other rule due to the clear inconsistency, so we just use our own rule which seems consistent with intent and what people generally agree. There was a long discussion about it a while back you may be able to search which may help. Some rewording suggestions are included.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Smith
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Calxx55 wrote:

Agree the rule is not written perfectly. This is how I have always played it.

For supply by land, all spaces from the supply source to the space to be supplied must have a fortification, except the space being supplied does not need a fortification.

For supply by water, all the connections from the supply source to the space being supplied must have be water, including the connection to the space being supplied.

Land and water combinations are ok.


That's how we play it. If it were otherwise you could not build fortifications in wilderness not connected by water which is clearly not intended.

The rule should be spilt into a water rule and a non water rule to make it clearer.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Volko Ruhnke
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
This 2 sentences seems contradictory, isn't?

Nope.

Quote:
... clear inconsistency ...

Not at all.

Please friends, if you are going to charge contradiction or inconsistency, do spell out how so, so that I can help. I'm happy to do so!

In any event, you all are playing the rule as I intended.

Best regards, Volko
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Volko Ruhnke
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
drmark64 wrote:
Mansfield76 wrote:
We have a question about the supply chain :

12.21 Each space, except the space being supplied, must have at
least one of the following characteristics:
• Water-connected to each adjacent space in the chain (including
the supplied space, if adjacent)

This 2 sentences seems contradictory, isn't?

for exemple : Moncalm move from Crown point (french fort ) to hudson carry south to siege english fort . N fortification in HCN, or Ticonderoga. Montcalm is in supply? Why?


My opinion.

Montcalm is in supply in Hudson Carry South in your example because Crown Point to Ticonderoga to Hudson Carry North has "water-connected to each adjacent space in the chain". And Hudson Carry South is "except the space being supplied"

I don't really know what "including the supplied space, if adjacent" means so I have been disregarding it. Perhaps, I am missing something.

The more I read, it the more I doubt myself though.

Hi Mark! Hope you're well!

HCN does not have "water-connected to each adjacent space in the chain" because it does not have that to HCS. So you would need a fortification in HCN to supply HCS.

Volko
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Volko Ruhnke
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
drmark64 wrote:
I am so unsure on this one, that I gave the opposite answer last time it was discussed.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/6980480#6980480

But I seemed more sure of myself then.

All--I went back to the linked thread. My apologies that I missed it back in 2011. I tried to address the question raised there.

If I only made the waters more turbid, please ask again! Thanks for your patience and interest. --Volko
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Evans
United States
Berlin
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I am well, thanks. After sleeping on it I was able to figure it out. Thanks for the confirmation.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mansfield Mansfield
msg tools
mbmbmb
Thank you for the precision.
For my curiosity, can you explain how it's possible to not have a condratiction between the 2 sentences? Do you give me an exemple, I don't see in wich case it's working .
And TK you for the game, I appreciate it a lot, very good and fun!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Evans
United States
Berlin
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Though you may have been talking with Volko. I will chime in.

This is how I read it now. Not how I read it yesterday.

12.21 Each space, except the space being supplied, must have at
least one of the following characteristics:
• Water-connected to each adjacent space in the chain (including
the supplied space, if adjacent)
, OR
• Cultivated, OR
• Friendly fortification, OR
• Amphib.

So the space being supplied is listed as an overall exception. Then if the part of the supply chain adjacent to the supplied space is by water connection then the exception to the exception applies.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Young
Canada
Victoria
BC
flag msg tools
Old Ways Are Best!
badge
Check Six!
mbmbmbmbmb
drmark64 wrote:
12.21 Each space, except the space being supplied, must have at
least one of the following characteristics:
• Water-connected to each adjacent space in the chain (including
the supplied space, if adjacent)
, OR
• Cultivated, OR
• Friendly fortification, OR
• Amphib.

So the space being supplied is listed as an overall exception. Then if the part of the supply chain adjacent to the supplied space is by water connection then the exception to the exception applies.
So, if the space to which supplies must go is away from the water thus involving a land link following a series of water links, then the last space in the water chain must be fortified (or some other characteristic as above)?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Evans
United States
Berlin
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Volko Ruhnke
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Mansfield76 wrote:
Thank you for the precision.
For my curiosity, can you explain how it's possible to not have a condratiction between the 2 sentences? Do you give me an exemple, I don't see in wich case it's working .
And TK you for the game, I appreciate it a lot, very good and fun!

Thanks!

It's hard for me to explain how it's not a contradiction because I have received no conception of how it appears to be contradictory, but I'll try. (The explanations just above are correct, so this may at least somewhat repeat.)

Example:

The space connected by land to the space to be supplied is Wilderness and has no fortification. That (penultimate) space in the chain fails the requirements and therefore units in the final space could not prosecute a Siege. This is true even if there is a water chain extending from supply up to the penultimate space, because the penultimate space still needs to have a water connection to the supplied space (hence "including the supplied space") if that is the way that the penultimate space is to pass the test.

Now, instead imagine the penultimate space has a friendly fort, and there are water connections extending back from there to a supply source. The penultimate space meets all the requirements, so a Siege could proceed in the final space, even though the final space fails all the requirements (hence the "except the space being supplied" allowance).

The two above cases are unambiguously discriminatable. The criteria for supply are internally consistent. There is no contradiction.

A way to visualize the mechanic is as a dangling steel chain. Each link is a space on the map. The last link hanging at bottom is the space to be supplied. ...

You must test the strength of each link except for the last--it's just dangling there not holding any other link up ("except the space being supplied"). You don't care if that link is strong or weak; don't even test it. ...

Your test of the strength of each other link are the criteria in the rule's bullets: meet any one criterion, and the link is strong. ...

Even the next to last link must be strong. If that strength comes from the water connection criterion, there must be such a connection to both the link above and the link below that being tested. For the next to last link, that would include a water connection to the last link ("including the supplied space"), even though you don't care how strong that last link itself is.

Volko

4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.