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Subject: E3 Feedback Implant Official Answer rss

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Michele Lupo
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Just recieved an email from Lukas.

Michele,

Thanks for the question. Yes, e3 Feedback Implants does trigger itself so you can break all subroutines on Janus for 1 click and 3 credits.

Hope that helps,

--
Lukas Litzsinger
Game Designer
Fantasy Flight Games
llitzsinger@fantasyflightgames.com

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Excellent, thanks!
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Steven Tu
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Makes sense, thanks Michele!
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Mychal
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The ruling I expected, but not the ruling I hoped for...
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Eric F
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Wolf88 wrote:
Just recieved an email from Lukas.

Michele,

Thanks for the question. Yes, e3 Feedback Implants does trigger itself so you can break all subroutines on Janus for 1 click and 3 credits.

Hope that helps,

--
Lukas Litzsinger
Game Designer
Fantasy Flight Games
llitzsinger@fantasyflightgames.com



Oof, the HB microbadge posting this must be heart-breaking!

It's okay, you get Sherlock!

...Right guys? Hello? Uh, guys...?
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haqattaqq .
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so long Bioroid ice - we hardly knew you.
 
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Mychal
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haqattaqq wrote:
so long Bioroid ice - we hardly knew you.

In an LCG, every card gets a counter, and every counter gets... a counter. I'm sure Power Grid Overload won't be the last way to trash Hardware, and who knows what other cards are coming down the pipeline to make Bioroids scary again?...
 
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Michele Lupo
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ignisphaseone wrote:
Wolf88 wrote:
Just recieved an email from Lukas.

Michele,

Thanks for the question. Yes, e3 Feedback Implants does trigger itself so you can break all subroutines on Janus for 1 click and 3 credits.

Hope that helps,

--
Lukas Litzsinger
Game Designer
Fantasy Flight Games
llitzsinger@fantasyflightgames.com



Oof, the HB microbadge posting this must be heart-breaking!

It's okay, you get Sherlock!

...Right guys? Hello? Uh, guys...?


I admit i had a mild heartbreak. But nothing that cannot be gotten over, i get to run the power grid overloads that are quite a bit better than the E3. Kill my bioroids i don't care i'll kill your MUs. and your Feedback Implants.
 
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Anon Y. Mous
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I guess Hourglass will be pretty much mandatory now. Can't break Bioroids with clicks if you don't have any.
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Lou Lessing
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This isn't that big a deal for Bioroids. A card that wrecks them exists now, but it's a pretty narrow answer (E3 does next to nothing against non-bioroids), it's only an issue if people start playing it, and that won't happen unless Bioroids start seeing way more play. E3's a dead draw against three corps, running it just for HB's a mistake.
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David F
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brisingre wrote:
This isn't that big a deal for Bioroids. A card that wrecks them exists now, but it's a pretty narrow answer (E3 does next to nothing against non-bioroids), it's only an issue if people start playing it, and that won't happen unless Bioroids start seeing way more play. E3's a dead draw against three corps, running it just for HB's a mistake.


I put 1 copy in Criminal. Very useful if you use Aurora and Peacock. The HB nerf is just a bonus.

And I'm probably retiring HB for competitive play until Hourglass comes out. Not worth the risk of encountering Criminal, and I don't like that hardware-trashing card.
 
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Konstantinos Thoukydidis
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brisingre wrote:
This isn't that big a deal for Bioroids. A card that wrecks them exists now, but it's a pretty narrow answer (E3 does next to nothing against non-bioroids), it's only an issue if people start playing it, and that won't happen unless Bioroids start seeing way more play. E3's a dead draw against three corps, running it just for HB's a mistake.


On the contrary, every runner benefits from having 1 in their deck, and Criminals might even want two, depending on if they're using peacock and aurora.

The reason why it makes sense to go into any deck, is because it single-handedly neuters most HB Ice (1 click + 3 credits to break Janus, lolz), so this one card in your deck gives you an almost automatic win against the most powerful corp in the current metagame. Of course the metagame will shift rapidly and people will start playing HB less and less just because of this one card. But 1 card at 2 inf is not a huge commitment to take it out when there's less HB players, given the great outcome if you end up playing HB anyway.

Unfortunately, neither Power Grid Overload nor Hourglass avoids this fate

For Power Grid overload you will need 3 credits to trash E3 against a 0-creds criminal (how often does that happen). The cost becomes prohibitive with more credits in the criminal's pool. And when you do manage to play it, you just managed to trash 1 silver bullet card and still have to deal with the rest of the criminal's rig. I.e. you just wasted a lot of credits, just so that you don't lose outright, but without giving you any other significant advantage (compared to say, trashing a Desperado). That is likely enough to make you lose the game anyway. If you don't trash this card and trash some Console or MUs instead, congragulations, you still left a silver bullet in the game and all your servers are practically free compared to their rez cost.

For Hourglass, you're unlikely to manage to protect more than 2 servers with it, and if you do manage to play it in front of a bioroid, this just means they have to break just hourglass to neuter rest of your bioroid defenses.

This card is just bad design imho. You can see it was made to help criminal breakers, but it ends up just annihilating a whole corporation.
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Lou Lessing
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Is it even that big a blowout against HB? I don't know about you, but my HB plays five bioroids in the whole deck. I don't care at all about someone spending a click and two credits on my Ichis (3x). They still provide a moderate amount of central server security there (That's a hurdle that makes running something every turn less tempting) and if I've paid for one that means it's already done it's damage. I care a little more about Janus(2x) being bypassed, but I can fall back on Archer(2x) and Tollbooth(3x) for lategame ice, and if there's a rezzed Janus that means I've either gotten a couple brain damage out of it already, which cripples the runner pretty badly, or it means I've gotten it for free off of Beta Test or Priority Requisition, in which case that sucks, but easy come easy go?
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Mychal
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brisingre wrote:
Is it even that big a blowout against HB? I don't know about you, but my HB plays five bioroids in the whole deck.

I assume you're not playing Stronger Together, where the answer is more decidedly "yes...".
 
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Steven Tu
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It really depends on the deck. Some decks (I know a guy who plays nothing but ) are loaded with Bioroids. The Stronger Together identity is supposed to love Bioroids. So... Meh. But honestly, E3 only makes Bioroids managable - not dead. Think about a string of 3 bioroids, let's say Viktor, Ichi and Heimdall. It's still 3 clicks and 6 creds to pass. 3 clicks. Even if you have Magnum Opus you can only run every 2nd turn, and if there's anything else in between it's extra cost. Tollbooth is a staple in HB. If Ash is in the server well then tough cookies. HB is mostly ice tower strat.

So yeah it sucks, but it's not the end of the world. Overload still works and is 1 influence. HB is rich.
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Konstantinos Thoukydidis
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Tuism wrote:
Think about a string of 3 bioroids, let's say Viktor, Ichi and Heimdall. It's still 3 clicks and 6 creds to pass. 3 clicks.


Erm, you're talking about perfect scenarios here. That's 19 creds HB has spent right there, including all the difficulty of getting all these ICE installed and rezzed while the runner is hammering your central servers. So an investment of 19 credits at the most optimal scenario simply forces to runner to pay 3 clicks and 6 credits to pass? Worthless. You might as well concede now.
 
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Steven Tu
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DbZer0 wrote:
Tuism wrote:
Think about a string of 3 bioroids, let's say Viktor, Ichi and Heimdall. It's still 3 clicks and 6 creds to pass. 3 clicks.


Erm, you're talking about perfect scenarios here. That's 19 creds HB has spent right there, including all the difficulty of getting all these ICE installed and rezzed while the runner is hammering your central servers. So an investment of 19 credits at the most optimal scenario simply forces to runner to pay 3 clicks and 6 credits to pass? Worthless. You might as well concede now.


Also, that's why I run other ice than bioroids that scenario on your R&D is solid. Mos of the time viktor is bypassed with 2-3 creds, heimdall on Ichi is usually feared but could be clicked and broken through at about 9 creds. It's a difference but not THAT big. Plus overload. HB is rich.
 
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Konstantinos Thoukydidis
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~12 creds and 3 clicks vs 6 creds and 3 clicks is a significant difference...

And again, the biggest problem is that it neuters bioroid ice in non-perfect setups like the one you mentioned. Most usually you're lucky to have bioroids 2-deep, which at least forces the runner to break one, thus bringing their superior subroutines + strength into play. This card just completely nullifies the only way bioroids can be used optimally.

Quote:
It's a difference but not THAT big. Plus overload. HB is rich.


Not against a criminal with Account Siphon.
 
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Jordan Hall
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Yeah, I'm not seeing how this blows HB out of the water. Janus got a significant nerf here, a 15 credit ice being bypassed for 1 click and 3 credits, but how many times was Janus being paid outright rather than rezzed for free with Priority Requisition or Accelerated Beta Test?

It sort of kills Victor, but no worse than when someone drops a Yog.0 before running. In my experience, both Ichi and Heimdall were rarely ever broken with Icebreakers (If they were, the Runner was winning anyways with that many credits to throw around...), but were simply clicked through. 1 click for 1 credit is the standard, and E3 Feedback Implants amounts to essentially the same thing.

What E3 Feedback Implants lets the Runner do is bank his actions in earlier turns, by clicking for credits, to spend later running multiple Bioroids in one turn. It's gives the Runner flexibility, but hardly destroys the whole HB faction. The Corp will have to change his plans a little when the Runner plays this, but what decent Runner card doesn't do that?
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Konstantinos Thoukydidis
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OK, I guess we'll let the metagame speak and how many people win tournament with HB from TA onwards.
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Lou Lessing
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Skylar114 wrote:
brisingre wrote:
Is it even that big a blowout against HB? I don't know about you, but my HB plays five bioroids in the whole deck.

I assume you're not playing Stronger Together, where the answer is more decidedly "yes...".


I am not playing Stronger Together, but I didn't think Stronger Together was even close to competitive before E3, so it seems to me like people are mourning the death of a deck that never really existed.
 
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Steven Tu
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brisingre wrote:
Skylar114 wrote:
brisingre wrote:
Is it even that big a blowout against HB? I don't know about you, but my HB plays five bioroids in the whole deck.

I assume you're not playing Stronger Together, where the answer is more decidedly "yes...".


I am not playing Stronger Together, but I didn't think Stronger Together was even close to competitive before E3, so it seems to me like people are mourning the death of a deck that never really existed.


I think for Stronger Together to have been more viable it needed some more variety in its Bioroids. Maybe the future would be different.

But yeah I hear you about E3 vs Stronger Together. That's what I thought too.
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Justin
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DbZer0 wrote:
The reason why it makes sense to go into any deck, is because it single-handedly neuters most HB Ice (1 click + 3 credits to break Janus, lolz), so this one card in your deck gives you an almost automatic win against the most powerful corp in the current metagame.

Viktor: won't see
Sherlock: won't see
Janus: might see
Heimdall: probably see
Ichi: will see

My opinion, the apparent popular opinion on BGG, and the stats from OCTGN have Weyland far ahead of HB.
 
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Lou Lessing
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pretty much, yeah.

I dunno about Heimdall, though. I don't play it, and I pretty much haven't seen one since WLA. Janus ends games with Chum, Heimdall gets clicked past unless you play it with other bioroids.
 
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Michele Lupo
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DbZer0 wrote:
OK, I guess we'll let the metagame speak and how many people win tournament with HB from TA onwards.


Yes. Db0 is right.
 
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