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Subject: Investment marker on a lake with Waterfront Realty rss

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David Goldfarb
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Houston
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I played a game of this on Sunday, and a rules question arose. I owned a Waterfront Realty, which increased the value of a lake. When I placed an investment marker on that lake, should I have received $2 per adjacent tile, or $4? We ultimately decided that the marker increased the effect of the lake and was therefore only worth $2 per tile, rather than like placing a whole new lake which would be worth $4. But I'm not sure and would like a ruling, ideally from toulouse himself.
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Clyde W
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I'm wondering how much money you get when, after building a lake next to a civ file:

- you build Waterfront (I believe $2?)
- then you put a 2x on the lake (I believe $4?)
- then you put a 2x on the Waterfront (I believe ... $8..?)
- then you build a new civ next to the lake (I believe...$16?)
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Greg Taylor
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clydeiii wrote:
I'm wondering how much money you get when, after building a lake next to a civ file:

- you build Waterfront (I believe $2?)
- then you put a 2x on the lake (I believe $4?)
- then you put a 2x on the Waterfront (I believe ... $8..?)
- then you build a new civ next to the lake (I believe...$16?)


I believe this goes like this:

Lake (+$2) x2 = +$4
Waterfront (+$2) x2 = +$4

So if you placed a tile next to your Lake x2 (the with an investment marker on it), you would get $8 for that tile placement.

EDIT - The key difference that keeps it from being $16, is that Waterfront Realty doesn't double the lake bonus, it adds +$2 to the lake bonus. So each of your x2 markers only multiply their own tile's effect, but the net result is an addition. That is $8 = ($2 x 2) + ($2 x 2)
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Michel van Peenen
Netherlands
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I am no Ted or Dale but my take is that you played correctly.
Only the effect(s) from the tile on which the investment marker is placed is/are rewarded again.
The tile still counts as one tile.

David Goldfarb wrote:
I played a game of this on Sunday, and a rules question arose. I owned a Waterfront Realty, which increased the value of a lake. When I placed an investment marker on that lake, should I have received $2 per adjacent tile, or $4? We ultimately decided that the marker increased the effect of the lake and was therefore only worth $2 per tile, rather than like placing a whole new lake which would be worth $4. But I'm not sure and would like a ruling, ideally from toulouse himself.
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Greg Taylor
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Carrotteer wrote:
The tile still counts as one tile.


This point is explicitly laid out in the rules paragraph for investment tiles.
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Mike Geller
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lindyhopper wrote:
Carrotteer wrote:
The tile still counts as one tile.


This point is explicitly laid out in the rules paragraph for investment tiles.


Yes. In the threads titled "Investment markers" and "Waterfront Realty" Ted's responses make it clear that Greg is correct.
 
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JonGetsGames
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first game last night, and the winning player had a crazy waterfront engine. He bought both waterfront realties and then x2ed both of them. So He was netting +$10 for every adjacency on any lake. He planted 2 lakes and then just placed every building next to a lake from then on essentially getting +$10 back every time!

I'm not crying fowl though, I had a standard big income business engine and only lost by 8 points.
 
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Eddie B
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One more question regarding the waterfront realty.

I buy a waterfront realty and I already have a lake surrounded by 6 tiles.

1- At the moment I place the waterfront realty I get 6 x $2 = $12

On my next turn I place an investment marker on the waterfront realty.

2- I get 6 x $2 = $12

On my next turn I place an investment marker on the lake.

3- I get 6 x ($2+$2+$2) = $36

Correct on all 3 accounts?
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Eddie B
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The more I think about it, step 3 should only give me $24 since I wouldn't benefit from the investment marker on the waterfront realty...

Correct me if I am wrong.
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Ted Alspach
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1 and 2 are correct.

3 is wrong. You are doubling the lake TILE, which is $2 per adjacent tile. So you get $12 for that. You don't get the Waterfront Realty bonus again (you already got that).

And you didn't mention it above, but you have to pay $6 when you invest in WR (and $0 for the lake).
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Eddie B
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Thanks so much for responding. So it is safe to say that placing the investment marker on a lake follows the same procedure as placing an investment marker on any other tile. Step 1, 2 and 3 from the player aid. It triggers the tile and only that tile. Now it makes sense. Guess I have to tell my 10 year old son tomorrow that Dad didn't qualify for the most $ bonus...
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Robert Harkess
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It adds a +$2 to the water tile. Effectively making a water tile +$4 when activated.

I would not use the word doubles as it gets complicated when you start putting *2 on the tiles.

Another key thing to note is that if both the waterfront and water are activated by placing a single tile. It's +$6. As you get the base $2 from the water, the amendment of +$2 for having the waterfront in play. Then an additional $2 because you activated the waterfront. So for this turn. You get +$6 for each of the relevant tiles next to the activated water.


meepleIf you have a *2 on the water you get $4.
meepleIf you have a waterside and water you get $4 unless you activate both then you get $6.
meepleIf you have a *2 on the water and a waterside (activating only the water) you get $6.
meepleIf you have a *2 on the water and a waterside (activating both the water and waterside) you get $8.
meepleIf you have a water and a *2 waterside (activating only the water) you get $6.
meepleIf you have a water and a *2 waterside (activating both the water and waterside) you get $10.
meepleIf you have a *2 on the water and a waterside *2 (activating only the water) you get $8.
meepleIf you have a *2 on the water and a waterside *2 (activating both the water and waterside) you get $12.


So in the last case.
The waterfront gives a +$2 but it has a '*2' on it so it's +$4, but it's also activated in this particular scenario so it's +$4 for having it in play and +$4 for activating it. +$8...
Which you add to the water tile ($2) only once you and the *2 to the water ($4).
Which gives you +$12.

You need to follow bodmas and treat each tile as within a bracket.
So (waterfront + *2 bonus) + activation(waterfront + *2 bonus) + activation(water + *2 bonus).

I thoroughly disagree with the math others have used in other threads. There is the idea amongst some that you apply the multiplier to the water once you have added the waterfront bonus. This tho is bad math.

check out the clarification here:
http://files.geekdo.com/geekfile_download.php?filetype=appli...

The only part this rules clarification doesn't cover is when both the water and waterside are both activated by the placing of a single tile. Which i have attempted to spell out clearly above.

One of the key things to note is the use of the word 'adjacent'.


http://files.geekdo.com/geekfile_download.php?filetype=appli...

Is on page three...

In that you can't claim for an activation you've already claimed when the word 'adjacent' is used.

Or in other words if you place a lake next to two tiles then activate the lake by placing another two tiles (so activate twice).

You will only get the benefit of the gold once for each tile (as it's placed).

So you place the lake and get gold for the two tiles next to it.
You then place a tile that activates the lake, you will only get the gold for the tile you just placed. Not all the others surrounding the lake.

The same applies to other aspects of the game.

The word 'adjacent' only applies to the tile you have just placed.
(When activating other tiles)

So you get the best benefit when you place that tile and a limited benefit when you place a new tile next to it.

Not the full benefit when you place it and full benefit every time you activate it.

If you place something next to the water, you do not count all the properties around the water, you only count the tile you just placed as adjacent. So the water is only brilliant if you can place it into a position where it's surrounded and then enhance (*2) it.

devil
So whilst the water and waterfront can give good money, generally it's only going to give it for one tile (unless you're placing a water tile). So you don't actually get a lot in the long run.
 
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Steve Yates
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The Waterfront Realty tile does not get "activated" by placing a tile next to it.
bobbylon5 wrote:

meepleIf you have a *2 on the water you get $4.
meepleIf you have a waterside and water you get $4 unless you activate both then you get $6.
meepleIf you have a *2 on the water and a waterside (activating only the water) you get $6.
meepleIf you have a *2 on the water and a waterside (activating both the water and waterside) you get $8.
meepleIf you have a water and a *2 waterside (activating only the water) you get $6.
meepleIf you have a water and a *2 waterside (activating both the water and waterside) you get $10.
meepleIf you have a *2 on the water and a waterside *2 (activating only the water) you get $8.
meepleIf you have a *2 on the water and a waterside *2 (activating both the water and waterside) you get $12.


I crossed out the invalid scoring options and unnecessary text to give a simpler summary of the valid scoring possibilities.
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