Netrunner » News » PLEASE IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO HELP ME

Author: Wheelockian

I've recently discovered this wonderful game (for me and my brother, it's become a fast favorite) and have already invested over $60 buying a few starter sets, so I would gladly pay what you're suggesting in the bulletin for a complete set of Netrunner cards even if they weren't foils.

Best of luck!
Sat Dec 3, 2011 12:59 am
Author: HuginnGreiling
Yes. I'd spring for this in a heartbeat.

For what it's worth, I adore the original art.

When you talk new expansions, are you talking all-new, never before seen cards?
Sat Dec 3, 2011 2:25 am
Author: mugs
I'd buy it, and I'd pre-order it, as long as the price is reasonable for what comes in the box. I haven't played NetRunner, but I've always been interested. I own the starter set, but haven't gotten my wife to play it with me yet (and it seems like it would benefit greatly from more cards).

This seems like as good a project as any for Kickstarter.
Sat Dec 3, 2011 4:36 am
Author: darksurtur
mugs wrote:
I'd buy it, and I'd pre-order it, as long as the price is reasonable for what comes in the box. I haven't played NetRunner, but I've always been interested. I own the starter set, but haven't gotten my wife to play it with me yet (and it seems like it would benefit greatly from more cards).

This seems like as good a project as any for Kickstarter.


I agree on all points. I'd be interested, so long as the game is priced competitively with other card games (deck-builders as well as LCGs). Kickstarter seems like an excellent way to fund this.

Also, I'd suggest creating a formal survey if you want to pre-gauge interest at various price points and distributing it here and in other online venues.
Sat Dec 3, 2011 4:53 am
Author: TheFlatline
I'm a new player and would be down for this too. The idea of dishing 50 bucks for a pair of starter decks sucks.

However, I'd implore to have enough cards in the box to play two players. Which might mean dupes.

Otherwise it would be significantly less attractive to me. I'd still pick it up, but moreso as a collector's thing than as something to facilitate gameplay.
Sat Dec 3, 2011 5:36 am
Author: Darksbane
I've never played the game before but if you release it as a LCG type game I'll buy in. I don't care about the limited print though as long as I can get a copy I don't need any special foils or alternate art.

Price would depend on the number of cards in the box. For example the LCG games come with about 200 cards for 40, I'd buy anything in the same range.
Sat Dec 3, 2011 7:16 am
Author: tilouboy
Count me in!
Sat Dec 3, 2011 10:10 am
Author: tilouboy
Quote:
1 create a little icons on cards showing that is a "memorial" set and/or
make all the cards ( or the old rares one) FOILS and/or
make all the cards or some of them ( rares? ) with some alternative art

or maybe a good mix of this .. what do you think ? could it be attractive ? if the production cost are expansive for a such thing will you buy it even if the cards are exactly the same ? ( i need to have beginner and expert advise ...)

2what could be the ideal price for a such box ?
i though about 40 to 100 $ i know it is a huge gap but production costs will be balanced with all the things i suggests upper and also with quantity printed .

3 will you buy it ? ( expert and / or beginner)

4 will you buy it only when released or are you able to support NR and help us to preorder the box before the released ?


1. Little icon. No foils. Same art. The box could include some special dice and/or tokens and/or a cardboard to keep track of the credits/viruses...
2. 50-60 $.
3. Yes! Quantity depends on the price. I'd first go with one box probably.
4. I would preorder the box before release.
Sat Dec 3, 2011 11:04 am
Author: michaeldavidcox
1.No foils. Icon is ok.
2. $50
3. Yes, I will buy it.
4. Yes I will pre-order
Sat Dec 3, 2011 11:20 am
Author: astray
1.No foils, ok with the icon
2.Around $50-60
3.Of course I'll buy it,1 box for starter
4.I'll make the Pre-order

Maybe you can try it on kickstarter
Sat Dec 3, 2011 1:53 pm
Author: mowglee
I have been looking up this game for a long time and will definitely be interested.

1. Icons are OK, No foils
2. Around $50
3. 1 box
4. I will pre-order
Sat Dec 3, 2011 2:21 pm
Author: klz_fc
1. Icons are fine. Foils are not really necessary and would increase the cost too much.
2. $50-60 would be my ballpark
3. Yes, 1 or 2 sets
4. Likely to preorder, depending on production lead time so I can make sure toe funds are still there when needed, otherwise afterwards.
Sat Dec 3, 2011 3:34 pm
Author: dragontrainer
This may be getting too much into details, but is the idea that a constructed deck from this (possible) new release will follow old deck building rules with no limit to a given card in a deck?

If I wanted 6 copies of a card in a deck, could I do that, and if so, would I need to buy 6 copies of the new set? Or would deckbuilding limits change with this release? Are you thinking there will be one copy of each (base) card in the new box, or will some have multiples?

I'm interested in a new Netrunner release, but how much I'd want to buy would depend on this sort of question, and how you think deckbuilding rules would change.

Thanks!
Sat Dec 3, 2011 5:23 pm
Author: telengard
dragontrainer wrote:
This may be getting too much into details, but is the idea that a constructed deck from this (possible) new release will follow old deck building rules with no limit to a given card in a deck?

If I wanted 6 copies of a card in a deck, could I do that, and if so, would I need to buy 6 copies of the new set? Or would deckbuilding limits change with this release? Are you thinking there will be one copy of each (base) card in the new box, or will some have multiples?

I'm interested in a new Netrunner release, but how much I'd want to buy would depend on this sort of question, and how you think deckbuilding rules would change.

Thanks!


I personally would like to see a limit on cards (maybe 3?), but I do realize that might be heresy.
Sat Dec 3, 2011 5:35 pm
Author: darksurtur
wormhole surfer wrote:
darksurtur wrote:
mugs wrote:
I'd buy it, and I'd pre-order it, as long as the price is reasonable for what comes in the box. I haven't played NetRunner, but I've always been interested. I own the starter set, but haven't gotten my wife to play it with me yet (and it seems like it would benefit greatly from more cards).

This seems like as good a project as any for Kickstarter.


I agree on all points. I'd be interested, so long as the game is priced competitively with other card games (deck-builders as well as LCGs). Kickstarter seems like an excellent way to fund this.

Also, I'd suggest creating a formal survey if you want to pre-gauge interest at various price points and distributing it here and in other online venues.


sorry my non native english doesn't make me understand " formal survey" ...
could you explain ? is it a poll ?


Yes, a poll and survey are basically the same thing. Your English is far better than any knowledge I have of foreign languages, but polls are very sensitive to language, so if you are surveying people in English, I'd suggest getting a native speaker to check it over.
Sat Dec 3, 2011 7:51 pm
Author: Nicolas Weiss
1 - No foils, ok with the icon.
2 - $60
3 - Base set for sure.
4 - Support as soon as I know what's inside the box.
Sat Dec 3, 2011 11:20 pm
Author: Colonel FUBAR
1 - Icon. Foils are for MtG. ninja
2 - $60
3 - Full support beyond base set if the edition is handled properly.
4 - OK to preorder on the basis of what's inside the box.
Sat Dec 3, 2011 11:39 pm
Author: lebo
Nicolas Weiss
(Nicolas Weiss)




1 - No foils, ok with the icon.
2 - $60
3 - Base set for sure.
4 - Support as soon as I know what's inside the box.
+ 1
Sun Dec 4, 2011 12:24 am
Author: XShagrath
I used to absolutely love Netrunner, so I'm probably in for this too.

1. Don't need or want foils, okay with an icon, but don't really need that either
2. I'd pay $40-60
3. Definitely the base set, and then if it follows an LCG format, I'd be in for that as well, more than likely.
4. I'd pre-order/kickstart once I had a clear idea of everything I'm getting.
Sun Dec 4, 2011 12:43 am
Author: fredcvbgt
Quote:
1 create a little icons on cards showing that is a "memorial" set and/or
make all the cards ( or the old rares one) FOILS and/or
make all the cards or some of them ( rares? ) with some alternative art

or maybe a good mix of this .. what do you think ? could it be attractive ? if the production cost are expansive for a such thing will you buy it even if the cards are exactly the same ? ( i need to have beginner and expert advise ...)

2what could be the ideal price for a such box ?
i though about 40 to 100 $ i know it is a huge gap but production costs will be balanced with all the things i suggests upper and also with quantity printed .

3 will you buy it ? ( expert and / or beginner)

4 will you buy it only when released or are you able to support NR and help us to preorder the box before the released ?


1) Definitely a different icon. Definitely no foil. Don't want to disrupt the secondary market that's has been supporting / keeping Netrunner alive this whole time.

2) I like the $60 price point but depends on what I'm getting.

3) I own thousands of Netrunner cards and would still buy it.

4) I would preorder.

Suggestions

1) Avoid anything Rarity related. It creates a secondary market that takes away from your direct revenue. Instead of buying and supporting from you I would just cherry pick and buy the cards I want/need from the secondary market, cause honestly 80% of the cards will never get played.

2) Have the Set contain either 4 full sets of every card being released It can work in your price point if you don't include the cards that never get played. Deckbuilding games and LCG aren't about powerful rare cards just the usability of the card. 1000 card release would be 4 X 125 unique corp runner and 4 X 125 unique runner cards.
or
Make it like Summoner War and release a set with like 10 premade corp deck and 10 premade runner decks, then release a new premade corp vs runner deck expansion ever couple of months. This helps new players being able to play balanced decks right from the start and the expert players can still break them apart to make their own decks. Just have each premade deck have a different icon so if people take them apart it is easy to put them back together if they every want to.

3) If kickstarters requires a US resident, I suggest partnering with a US resident. Kickstarter has a huge community following and exposure is very important for these projects and people trust it cause payments are processed through amazon and don't get collected unless the project is funded.
Sun Dec 4, 2011 12:45 am
Author: istoptrucks

1. I'd definitely go for an icon, and no foils. i'd skip the R/U/C distribution.

2. As an example A Game of Thrones Core Set (a box set of cards, 4 starter decks, contains) contains 196 cards and cost $39.95 on the producers website. The Netrunner base set is 374 cards. So I do agree $60-70 is a fair price.

3. I'd definitely buy it and encourage others to buy it.
4. I'd try to preorder it, to support the idea of the re-print.

Besides, it would be great if the reprint cards were the same as in the original release, so you could use old cards with it.
Errata should be included.
The reprint box should have a few deck lists and ideas for beginners.
It is a relevant question, how many cards could be in a deck after a reprint.

Netrunner is a great game. I believe if it is released in a LCG model, it will definitely find buyers.
Sun Dec 4, 2011 8:30 am
Author: adam.skinner
Sign me up for a copy of the Core Set!
Sun Dec 4, 2011 10:08 am
Author: Blind Reality
1. Icons are ok, alternative art is ok, NO FOILS PLEASE at all.
2. I'd pay no more than €50,00 for such a product
3. I would buy it if the price was right (see 2) and there were no foils (see 1)
4. I would preorder it
Sun Dec 4, 2011 10:38 am
Author: MountainRoot
I wanna help too!!!
Count me IN.....Count me IN

When i will have some time i will respond to the bullet.......
Sun Dec 4, 2011 11:17 am
Author: wormhole surfer
fredcvbgt wrote:
Quote:
1 create a little icons on cards showing that is a "memorial" set and/or
make all the cards ( or the old rares one) FOILS and/or
make all the cards or some of them ( rares? ) with some alternative art

or maybe a good mix of this .. what do you think ? could it be attractive ? if the production cost are expansive for a such thing will you buy it even if the cards are exactly the same ? ( i need to have beginner and expert advise ...)

2what could be the ideal price for a such box ?
i though about 40 to 100 $ i know it is a huge gap but production costs will be balanced with all the things i suggests upper and also with quantity printed .

3 will you buy it ? ( expert and / or beginner)

4 will you buy it only when released or are you able to support NR and help us to preorder the box before the released ?


1) Definitely a different icon. Definitely no foil. Don't want to disrupt the secondary market that's has been supporting / keeping Netrunner alive this whole time.

2) I like the $60 price point but depends on what I'm getting.

3) I own thousands of Netrunner cards and would still buy it.

4) I would preorder.

Suggestions

1) Avoid anything Rarity related. It creates a secondary market that takes away from your direct revenue. Instead of buying and supporting from you I would just cherry pick and buy the cards I want/need from the secondary market, cause honestly 80% of the cards will never get played.

2) Have the Set contain either 4 full sets of every card being released It can work in your price point if you don't include the cards that never get played. Deckbuilding games and LCG aren't about powerful rare cards just the usability of the card. 1000 card release would be 4 X 125 unique corp runner and 4 X 125 unique runner cards.
or
Make it like Summoner War and release a set with like 10 premade corp deck and 10 premade runner decks, then release a new premade corp vs runner deck expansion ever couple of months. This helps new players being able to play balanced decks right from the start and the expert players can still break them apart to make their own decks. Just have each premade deck have a different icon so if people take them apart it is easy to put them back together if they every want to.

3) If kickstarters requires a US resident, I suggest partnering with a US resident. Kickstarter has a huge community following and exposure is very important for these projects and people trust it cause payments are processed through amazon and don't get collected unless the project is funded.



Hi and thx for ur comments

1 i can't see why foil cards will disrupt the actuall market, but ... anyway from the 42 answers i already gathered only 2 or 3 people would like foils so ...

2 60 $ is a fair price yes but if U look at FFG products, one guys here told that it was at a retail price of 40 $ for 200 cards, the logic would be that 374 worth around 80 $ but when you look @ dominion, .. well i guess that qty produced for dominion a far away more than lcg ...

about ur suggestions :

1 ur absolutly right, i don't want to create rarity inside a such box ( except put on a cards the old rarity value to let players handle sealed play)
when i speak about a limited set it was just the quantity printed of this box
that's why we need to have cards all in 1 copy inside, if we begin to put constructed decks in the box with several cards, it will disprut it

BUT i can't avoid anybody from buying this box or several, constructs their decks and then trade/sell the remaining cards, even will actual LCG second market exists, but it is far away less than CCG.

2 first, 1000 cards in a box is impossible to release at a low price.
this box will be a reprint as a memorial set so ( even if i agree that some rares are never played , not so much only a dozen, u have to take into account that no limit format let us build new and powerfull decks with "bad" rares)
i don't want beginners not having an entire set, and sealed games will always be playable, once again, only a handfull cards aren't playable in sealed
release 125 unique cards for runner ande corps will make 250 cards which means 124 cards remove, if U correctly look only a dozen are really not playable actually ...

you said that it will be good to have 4 copies of a cards.. why 4 ?
several formats exists , sealled games, 1/15 and no limit...
You know a have many cards ( TRC, Dieter esslin, Stereogramm antobody, in more than 18 copies) so ur limit of 4 isn't an absolute limit of cards playable, NR is a very open games most of people don't play like others, the best and most balanced thing at this point would be that everyone buy the entire set, and complete by buying other box ( or trade/buy singles cards) to complete decks.
You know i know many people that even if the game is dead since 1999, continue to gather copies of cards to try to reach the limit of 18 copies of a cards, which costs them very high price, thos people if they have had the choice would have bought 18 boxes like that if they could ...
If you run sometimes www.netrunneronline.com, you maybe know the 1.8 errate files and our ( NRO team)revised 3.0 format, we will create cards/format that improve the power of actual "bad cards"

Your idea of premade decks playable right out the box is definitly a good idea BUT we will disrupt the market, as U said. made such decks will make that several copies of a cards will be and so we will create rarity in distribution ...
I agree that some decks must have to be in the box but i saw them more as lists than ur idea

i will , if needed use the kickstarter idea it is very good

Hope u'll understand my meanings, because i have to assume that it is sometimes very difficult for me, non native english spoker, to translate some of my ideas.
If something appears obscur to U don't hesitate to contact me here or by PM

TY
Sun Dec 4, 2011 12:03 pm
Author: XShagrath
I think there should be more than one copy of some cards in the "base" box. Having only one copy of each card is not going to allow people to make very reliable decks, as it will be fairly unlikely they'll get to that one copy of any given card.

Going off of my limited LCG experience (Lord of the Rings), the base game had three copies of *most* cards, and then two copies of some and one copies of others. In the expansion packs, there were three copies of each card. I think the best course of action if you don't want to (or can't) put three copies of each card in the "base" set would be to put multiple copies of some cards and maybe only one or two copies of some of the more powerful cards. If you do go this route, you could offer a supplemental "expansion" that had the extra copies of those cards to get everything up to three. I and many other people out there don't want to feel the need to buy three copies of a game in order to get a "complete" experience.

And I echo someone else's earlier suggestion that you partner up with someone in the US to get this put on Kickstarter. That's been a huge help for many individuals (and smaller board/card game companies) in getting funding for their product. Just recently, D-Day Dice became the best-funded game on the service (currently at over $113K). That kind of exposure is essential for something like this, I would think.
Sun Dec 4, 2011 12:14 pm
Author: XShagrath
wormhole surfer wrote:
Did you alerady played NR ?
If so you know how playable it is in sealed games, with only "highlander decks" i can play a thousand of times... don't be feared about the playability of the game right out this box


I have played it many times when it was first out, but it's been at least 10 years now, so my memory of how many copies of cards needed might be a little shaky.

If people in general agree that only one copy of each card are needed to play and enjoy the game and it's not going to cause all of the more devoted/hardcore audience to have to buy three "core" sets to get the decks they want, then I don't see a problem with it.

It ultimately comes down to what is financially viable. You're setting up this venture because you love the game, but you also don't want to lose money in getting this thing printed.

I don't have any experience on the business end, and only as a consumer. I know I didn't mind only getting one copy of some cards in my LOTR:LCG box at first, as I didn't see the power of some cards, or just didn't realize it. After getting deeper into the game, it kinda irked me that I didn't have multiple copies of some cards (and they weren't restricted to one per deck). I finally caved in and bought a second set, but would've much preferred if there was another option, because now I've got 3 extra copies of all of the "common" cards that I have no use for. I think I ended up only being able to use about 50ish cards out of that second set (to get all my two copy cards to three, and my one copy cards to two). If I had to buy a third set, I believe I'd only be using about 13 cards, which isn't really worth the money, I don't think.

Back to your product though.. Yes, buying three copies of your "base" set to get three copies of every card would be much cheaper than acquiring those via the CCG model, but if you're trying to move away from the CCG style of distribution, I don't think they can be compared.

In the end, all of us want the most bang for our buck, and it's going to take a lot of research and input to figure out what works best for everyone involved.
Sun Dec 4, 2011 1:17 pm
Author: BookandGame
From your post:

Quote:
1 create a little icons on cards showing that is a "memorial" set and/or
make all the cards ( or the old rares one) FOILS and/or
make all the cards or some of them ( rares? ) with some alternative art

or maybe a good mix of this .. what do you think ? could it be attractive ? if the production cost are expansive for a such thing will you buy it even if the cards are exactly the same ? ( i need to have beginner and expert advise ...)

2what could be the ideal price for a such box ?
i though about 40 to 100 $ i know it is a huge gap but production costs will be balanced with all the things i suggests upper and also with quantity printed .

3 will you buy it ? ( expert and / or beginner)

4 will you buy it only when released or are you able to support NR and help us to preorder the box before the released ?


1. I have no interest what so ever as a collector so FOIL cards hold no interest for me. In fact, it's probably just annoying. A little icon to differentiate it from the original would be fine. Alternate art would be fine as long as it's good.

2. Cheaper the better, but it would have to be easily playable. I would probably go as high as $80 for all the cards + dupes for playing. Set up like the LCG of Fantasy Flight Games, I'd say $60 is my max.

3. Yes. I haven't played since it came out, so beginner.

4. That really depends. This may sound a little harsh but if it was coming from an experienced publisher I'd pre-order it in a heartbeat. Coming from a passionate fan who has no experience in publishing games, I'd wait to see if I thought they could handle the job.

(Harshness alert)
I'd suggest taking some more time on your posts, spelling out all your words, and using punctuation. You being French, I understand your less than perfect English but don't use internet shorthand. If you're going to be asking people to send you money, be as professional as possible.
(End harshness alert)
Sun Dec 4, 2011 5:06 pm
Author: Darksbane
XShagrath wrote:

Going off of my limited LCG experience (Lord of the Rings), the base game had three copies of *most* cards, and then two copies of some and one copies of others. In the expansion packs, there were three copies of each card. I think the best course of action if you don't want to (or can't) put three copies of each card in the "base" set would be to put multiple copies of some cards and maybe only one or two copies of some of the more powerful cards. If you do go this route, you could offer a supplemental "expansion" that had the extra copies of those cards to get everything up to three. I and many other people out there don't want to feel the need to buy three copies of a game in order to get a "complete" experience.


Just an FYI but this is pretty much the most complained about thing with the LotR LCG. Of course that is because you can only have 3 of any one card in a deck so that means if you buy a 2nd core set any cards which came 3x are wasted. IMO there needs to be the same number of every card in the box so when you buy a 2nd box you don't have 10x of one card and 2x of another.

Quote:
i'am pretty sure that many stores/lurker will buy the box, open it and sell singles cards so that you can just complete your decks without buying the bix box .

I would say given that this type of distribution has been done before with all the LCGs that you are very wrong. I follow the LCGs very closely and there are virtually no secondary markets for those games. In order to break down core sets secondary sellers have to make the cards people buy most often extremely expensive. And when you are paying $15 for a card but can buy another full core set for $30 it makes more sense to buy the full core set.
Dont' worry about the secondary market. You are going to kill them with this product and it isn't your responsibility to keep them alive. It is your responsiblity to provide a fun game for your customers. LCGs do not support secondary markets or much trading so if I were you I would concentrate on what your goal is and that is to get Netrunner back in print.

Sun Dec 4, 2011 5:14 pm
Author: darksurtur
I don't think I am alone if I say this: I probably won't buy this if it is geared around preserving the CCG rarity scheme and/or a secondary market. There are many LCGs that are thriving, and not by chance; follow those models, learn from their mistakes, and offer playsets instead of individual cards. I don't mind if this means the game rules become limited to a 3X max model.
Sun Dec 4, 2011 7:41 pm
Author: Tinweasel
Quote:
1 - No foils, ok with the icon.
2 - $60
3 - Base set for sure.
4 - Support as soon as I know what's inside the box.


+ 2

You should stay away from including multiples of cards in your set. Netrunner is not Magic, fortunately. The aim for the box should be to enable highlander/(simulated) Sealed play, and that is enough fun to be had for $60 or so. Sure, if you want to build a Clown deck or an ice destruction deck, you'll need multiples. Well then, buy multiple copies of the box. It will still be a lot cheaper than acquiring the cards elsewhere.
Sun Dec 4, 2011 8:33 pm
Author: Sam and Max

* Follow the Dominion model.

* Two of each card. That way, casual players will have a wide variety of cards to try out. Hardcore types will buy two sets without extra or wasted cards. Casual players will also have the option to buy a second set if they wanted to.
Sun Dec 4, 2011 8:43 pm
Author: Wolfshade
1. I'm not crazy about foils, but I could live with an icon.
Some updated artwork might be nice.
2. I'd pay around $50-60
3. The base set I would surely get. Then see what the LCG format add, but I'll probably get those too.
4. I'd pre-order/kickstart(and the likes) as soon as I know what I'd get.

Tx for working at this .
Sun Dec 4, 2011 8:51 pm
Author: Denton
1. New Icon would be enough. No foils. Maybe some special tokens included in the box?
2. 50-60 $.
3. I would probably buy 2 sets to begin with. Maybe a 3rd later, to have 3 of each card
4. I would preorder the box before release!

I really hope this is going to happen!
Mon Dec 5, 2011 12:03 am
Author: darksurtur
wormhole surfer wrote:
darksurtur wrote:
I don't think I am alone if I say this: I probably won't buy this if it is geared around preserving the CCG rarity scheme and/or a secondary market. There are many LCGs that are thriving, and not by chance; follow those models, learn from their mistakes, and offer playsets instead of individual cards. I don't mind if this means the game rules become limited to a 3X max model.


Hi again, i don't follow you...

who said that the rarity will still be ?
who said that the box will be created for singles cards seller ?

that was just a suposition of me...if i were a beginner and if i would build a trc decks with 18 TRC so maybe yes i could buy singles cards to complete my TRC set instead of buying 18 boxes...In that cases, it is players who creates the second market not the editors ...

all cards in a box doesn't make rarity to me...
if you speak about the fact that rarity could still be indicated in a checklist inside or written on cards so yes i vote for, because we will need it to generate starter/boosters and emulate sealed games

Why do you speak about a limitation of 3 ? 3 copies doesn't make a playset in Netrunner, there is no limitation, no standard.NR is a very free game, where people have their own way to play.
A such limitation ,in NR, doesn't make any sense.
you say that i think because you know FFG games which are often limited in 3 or 4 copy and so you would play seriously NR right out the box ...

I understand you and agree with that. but you should admit that it is impossible to release a box of 1122 cards for the price of 220 ... do you agree with that ?

oh yes we could ... the box would cost around 150-200 $ .. who will buy it ? nobody...
it is better to set up a cheapest thing in order to play the simpliest way ( but not the worst way)and if you want you buy more ... the total price will be the same anyway ...



Of course I don't think releasing 1122-card sets is a good idea. I do think releasing smaller sets with 3x of each card is. And I think it might be useful to at least consider that, if the game is changing its business model, it might be necessary to change some of the rules. A 3x of the same card rule might be one of those things. It's just an idea, and one that is uninformed, since I have never actually had a chance to play Netrunner.
Mon Dec 5, 2011 1:13 am
Author: Darksbane
One thing I think would be a good idea is to split this up into a base set with an expansion. If the full set of NR is 370 cards then I'd pick 200 of them that will make the best play experience in a initial set and then add the additional 170 in some form of expansions.

Although I will also echo the thought that some kind lower per card deck limit is likely a good idea (coming from someone who has never played though).
Mon Dec 5, 2011 1:23 am
Author: Darksbane
wormhole surfer wrote:


yes i though about that (see upper), but it will "break" the "memorial aspect"

So? If your goal is to get this to see print and continue with eventually new cards and a reinvigorated game I think getting new players into the game is more important than releasing the full set intact just to memorialize the original canceled game. Now if you really just want to reprint the original cards and stop there then releasing them all at once is preferable.

wormhole surfer wrote:
one thing that i can't understand with your comments ( but i thank you to comment ! ) is that you seems to not take into account that netrunner has no rules of limitations, no standard
the game is also playable in highlander than any other format
we can't sell more than needed card for most of players who don't want to ...meaning we can't sell boxes with 2, 3, 4 or any number if it rise up the price ( and in any manner it will rise up the price, even if we divided the base set)

When I suggested cutting down to 200 cards I'm not suggesting it so you can release duplicates. I'm suggesting it so you can get the pricepoint lower. Yes fans of the original game might be willing to plunk down $60 but looking at this from the point of view of a new player who has a choice between this and a $40 LCG core set and most are going to choose the cheaper option.

One thing the existing LCGs do is they don't just dump cards in the box. They are providing a board game like experience by giving the buyer 4ish decks they can play out of the box with little need for deckbuilding. This has obviously been a successful strategy for FFG and the LCG type games not produced by FFG do similar things. Which is why I think reducing your card count to 200 to provide 4 50 card pre built highlander decks is your best move. It gives you a lower price point and it allows you to provide a board game like experience for people to try out your game. Then if they like it you can release the expansions for them to buy to customize their decks (and reprint the other 170 cards)

I do realize that from what has been said here that netrunner has no per card limit but I think that is going to hurt this game and again from a new player perspective it is a huge turnoff. When I look at a LCG and get people interested in them it is largly by explaining to them that "suitcase" players are now obsolete for the most part. It is easy to keep everyone on a level playing field. If you can truly run 18 copies of a single card though and that means that whoever is crazy enough to buy 18 copies of the core set is going to be at an advantage.


wormhole surfer wrote:
But i have to admit that i can understand you because we know many games and many games are played with multiples copies .

Netrunner is a briliant games, in all of his aspects and of of its ( that provokes his death partially) that it was very very very playable in sealed /highlander games)

Is there some disadvantage then to running multiple copies of a card? Because if there isn't then I don't see the point in saying it is playable highlander. Magic can be played highlander but few do it and few highlander decks would do well against a constructed deck.

wormhole surfer wrote:
you'll see, becoming more experienced that NR doesn't any limitations because many archetypes of decks could only exists by letting players playing sometimes 6, 9 or more times a card ...

I'm just saying it might be something to consider that it could be beneficial to limit the number of cards in a deck to 3 or 4 for the health of the game in this new format. Sure some deck types might get killed, but at the same time it would open up new deck types as the meta evoloved. Obviously I'm not the only one to see this as a potential problem as darksurtur is saying he can see it being an issue also.

wormhole surfer wrote:
it ias very hard to explain by text, most of it is liek discovering a treasure , it takes time to find and understand, only many many many games will teach You that
we ( old NR players) will always be with you to teach you


Thats the thing though, how many won't see because the first event they go to they get beat by someone with 15 of card X and they realize that to compete on a level playing field they would have to buy 15 copies of your game. Most players I know would just quit the game right there and move onto something more reasonable.

I'm not trying to naysay but hopefully a view from outside from a person who has played 40+ different CCGs and who closely follows and collects all of FFG's LCG games getting many new players and former ccgers hooked on the distribution format can highlight where you might run into issues.
Mon Dec 5, 2011 4:37 am
Author: darksurtur
Darksbane wrote:

I'm just saying it might be something to consider that it could be beneficial to limit the number of cards in a deck to 3 or 4 for the health of the game in this new format. Sure some deck types might get killed, but at the same time it would open up new deck types as the meta evoloved. Obviously I'm not the only one to see this as a potential problem as darksurtur is saying he can see it being an issue also.
...

Thats the thing though, how many won't see because the first event they go to they get beat by someone with 15 of card X and they realize that to compete on a level playing field they would have to buy 15 copies of your game. Most players I know would just quit the game right there and move onto something more reasonable.

I'm not trying to naysay but hopefully a view from outside from a person who has played 40+ different CCGs and who closely follows and collects all of FFG's LCG games getting many new players and former ccgers hooked on the distribution format can highlight where you might run into issues.


Thank you for backing me up. I firmly believe that rules need to be looked over when the distribution model changes. The distribution model seems to have greatly influenced the first iteration of NR; their is no reason it should not influence the second one. Slavish faithfulness is a mistake.
Mon Dec 5, 2011 4:49 am
Author: mugs
darksurtur wrote:
I don't think I am alone if I say this: I probably won't buy this if it is geared around preserving the CCG rarity scheme and/or a secondary market. There are many LCGs that are thriving, and not by chance; follow those models, learn from their mistakes, and offer playsets instead of individual cards. I don't mind if this means the game rules become limited to a 3X max model.


Agree with this. Even FFG tried to have some less common cards in their LCGs, and they realized that was a mistake. I believe they include full playsets in all new products except their base games now (and a lot of people get annoyed when base games don't have 3 of each card).

I can live with buying a second copy of a base game, because I understand that having a variety of cards is important when introducing a game to new players. But if you tell me I should buy 3 copies of everything that comes out, that diminishes one of the biggest advantages of selling a card game in fixed sets.

Ludovic, you're planning on publishing this yourself? Do you have any experience with publishing games?
Mon Dec 5, 2011 5:54 am
Author: rhoubhe
First a reply to your questions:

1. Icons
2. $40-60 USD
3. Yes I would buy it. I've never played the game but am very interested to try it.
4. I would likely preorder, but can't say for certain without seeing what the content of the game is.

Another thought that I don't believe has been mentioned is to split this initial release into separate Runner and Corporation products. Maybe do two copies of every card for each faction. This would seemingly satisfy those demanding multiple copies in a box, while maintaining your need to profit/produce the game for a reasonable cost. In addition to the cards, perhaps a play mat of some sort could be added as well. I think I've seen some playmats used to track the various currencies/points/whatever in the game as well as outline turn flow, tips, etc here on the geek. This would help some of us *cough* me *cough* who are completely unfamiliar with the game and present it as more of a "board game," which it actually sounds closer to than a CCG.

Of course I'm saying this as someone with zero experience with the game, so I could be completely off base here. Regardless, best of luck with this project and hope you can actually pull this off!
Mon Dec 5, 2011 6:19 am
Author: HuginnGreiling
rhoubhe wrote:
Another thought that I don't believe has been mentioned is to split this initial release into separate Runner and Corporation products. Maybe do two copies of every card for each faction. This would seemingly satisfy those demanding multiple copies in a box, while maintaining your need to profit/produce the game for a reasonable cost. In addition to the cards, perhaps a play mat of some sort could be added as well. I think I've seen some playmats used to track the various currencies/points/whatever in the game as well as outline turn flow, tips, etc here on the geek. This would help some of us *cough* me *cough* who are completely unfamiliar with the game and present it as more of a "board game," which it actually sounds closer to than a CCG.

Of course I'm saying this as someone with zero experience with the game, so I could be completely off base here. Regardless, best of luck with this project and hope you can actually pull this off!

Absolutely no offense intended, but this would be like selling the black and white chess pieces separately, or, even more accurately, the board and the chits separately. You must have one set (whatever that set is like) of each to play.
Mon Dec 5, 2011 6:30 am
Author: Maankin
1. new icon, no foils
2. 40-50€
3. the base set for sure, maybe 2 (beginner, only played it a few times)
4. need to know the quality of the card stock/printing. Then possibly pre-order..

One of each card would be nice.
Mon Dec 5, 2011 9:30 am
Author: fredcvbgt
In my humble opinion, I don't not like just getting one of each card.

Gaming has changed drastically in the 15 years since Netrunners original released and something things may have to change if you want a chance at success.

The main goal is to sell the full Netrunner experience as a cost effective price point. If a new player that has never played Netrunner before plays decks with only 1 of each, that's not giving a fair representation of Netrunner and it will probably not earn new followers. I feel that multiple copies, lets say 3 for argument sake following a 1 per 15 ratio with a 45 card deck, enables players to build solid decks functional decks without the reliance of lucky draw when you only have 1 of each. You can print 3 copies of 80 unique corp and 80 unique runner cards for 480 cards total. They other cards might have to wait for future releases.

Unfortunately some sacrifices might have to be made. Some formats might have to have variants and some cards might have to be dropped in order to get a wider appeal and the right price point.

Most deck building games come with around 500 cards. LCG, which is purely a Fantasy Flight Games invention, comes with less cards at a high price point.

My earlier suggestions about multiple copies and/or preconstructed decks are to make game the game more accessible and more adoptable hence earning new followers.

Just a reprint of 1 of each is just a re-release and doesn't do much to further the future of Netrunner and I don't think it will fair any better on the marketplace than it's original release. You have to format and reinstall Netrunner, not just reboot the system. Sell the Netrunner game and not just resell Netrunner cards.
Mon Dec 5, 2011 11:07 am
Author: fredcvbgt
In Addition, if the set only contains 1 of each card, a player who only bought one copy has a significantly inferior deck to somebody who has bought multiple copies. That's difference from a CCG and LCG/Deckbuilding.

No player should have an advantage over another based on how much a player spent and multiple copies shouldn't need to be purchased to get the real/full experience.
Mon Dec 5, 2011 11:37 am
Author: rhoubhe
HuginnGreiling wrote:
rhoubhe wrote:
Another thought that I don't believe has been mentioned is to split this initial release into separate Runner and Corporation products. Maybe do two copies of every card for each faction. This would seemingly satisfy those demanding multiple copies in a box, while maintaining your need to profit/produce the game for a reasonable cost. In addition to the cards, perhaps a play mat of some sort could be added as well. I think I've seen some playmats used to track the various currencies/points/whatever in the game as well as outline turn flow, tips, etc here on the geek. This would help some of us *cough* me *cough* who are completely unfamiliar with the game and present it as more of a "board game," which it actually sounds closer to than a CCG.

Of course I'm saying this as someone with zero experience with the game, so I could be completely off base here. Regardless, best of luck with this project and hope you can actually pull this off!

Absolutely no offense intended, but this would be like selling the black and white chess pieces separately, or, even more accurately, the board and the chits separately. You must have one set (whatever that set is like) of each to play.


No offense at all! Like I said I'm a complete newb when it comes to this game. Forgive my ignorance whistle
Mon Dec 5, 2011 1:13 pm
Author: Nicolas Weiss
If you want to keep the price point low, you could ask a subquestion, targetted at people who never played NetRunner, concerning the need (or not) to update the current artwork. Art comissions are a HUGE money sinker in CCGs creation, and I bet discovering that potential customers quite like the aesthesics of the current cards will quicken a lot your negociations.
Mon Dec 5, 2011 2:05 pm
Author: rhoubhe
Current artwork is just fine by me. I'm most interested in playing a great game I've never had the chance to try.
Mon Dec 5, 2011 2:24 pm
Author: Brother Narsis
Very interested, no need of foils.

Kickstarter would be the way to go...

Mon Dec 5, 2011 4:03 pm
Author: XShagrath
If you have the rights to go with the original artwork, I would do that to cut down on costs. Artwork can be *very* expensive, so contracting out to artists for 400ish cards would be a ton of money! I'm perfectly happy with the old artwork if it is available.
Mon Dec 5, 2011 4:07 pm
Author: matthulgan
I'm in.
Mon Dec 5, 2011 5:39 pm
Author: fredcvbgt
If "Sealed" is the Netrunner experience that you are trying to sell, but all means, it is your project, but I do want to point out that your basis maybe rooted in your personal viewpoints that may not be hold true for the general public.

I personally do not like Sealed in every CCG that's I've ever played and like you I've played pretty much all of them. Some people love sealed but it definitely is not for everyone.

I agree Netrunner plays extremely well sealed and could be the CCG that plays sealed best, but I've never played a CCG where having multiple copies of cards is competitively on par or worse than having one being able to have one. I've played Netrunner from its inception and still play to this very day and I assure you my finely tuned decks will have a heavy advantage over a highlander deck. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

As long as people know a sealed experience is what they are getting, that's fine, but I'm sure there are others like me that thought this was about getting a full deck construction package and not a highlander/sealed package.
Mon Dec 5, 2011 6:23 pm
Author: waddball
Icons/Foils
No foils, yuck. Adding a "Vital" icon is essential for a game where you need to break out certain cards after each session (simulating a sealed-deck experience). Maybe/maybe not on the other rarities (I say "not", as a reboot as an LCG/non-collectible eliminates the need, but not with the Vitals: those must be marked for easy separation).

Price/Pre-order
I don't really care on the price, I'll likely buy it regardless, unless you do something really weird. Ditto with pre-ordering (once I see the real plan and it isn't bizarre).

General Remarks
NR plays best sealed, but this "NR Redux" set is a different product, so I think a slavish devotion to replicating the old game is a bad idea. If the standard, "out of the box" experience for this is intended to mimic sealed, that experience should be enhanced. Some ideas/opinions:

1. Make more cards Vitals. The rock-paper-scissors nature of breakers and ice requires some equivalent of the Vital rarity, but this is an opportunity for more variability, rather than "okay, Loony Goon or Shaka?" for the 50th time. The Runner needs more cheap bit gainers, and the Corp more cheap/annoying Ice, etc.

2. Make the initial set a "best of" some subset (300?) of the old game's cards. Duplicating the base set, Proteus, Classic, then Rogues/Silent Impact/Chrysalid Matrix/Deep Runs/Dangerous Allies/etc. is a bad idea. Why repeat the mistakes of Proteus, or have Stealth remain so useless (for example)? You should apply an editorial hand and include some cards from Proteus and Classic, and maybe even some unpublished cards, in the initial NR Redux set. Crowdsource some of this, or if you're in communication with Garfield, then...hey, there you go.

3. Keep (but fix) the unlimited constructed format. People can always use sleeves and proxies, as they do now. Yes, some cards need fixing (Enterprise Inc. Shields, Tycho, Viral Pipeline), but it's a unique concept that shouldn't be removed, even though it's much harder to design around. If people don't want to play it, don't! Easy peasy.

4a. Release larger expansions (150?) less frequently rather than small monthly ones (such as the FFG LCG model). It's easier to stay "unified" and have larger themes more comprehensively integrated, and there's less of the "keep up or fall behind" mentality.

4b. But only add fully supported functions via expansions. I like the idea of Bad Publicity, but 10 cards!?

Could go on, will stop there. It's great that you're looking into this, best of luck to you!
Mon Dec 5, 2011 6:38 pm
Author: Denton
I agree with alot of what Darksbane, and other people have said.

I like the idea of multiple copies of some cards, and then not releasing the full set all at once.
I think it will make it much easier for beginners to get into the game.
The box should also have pre-made decks.

Offcourse expansions should have the rest of the cards.

With fewer different cards, and pre-made decks, you will not have to read and understand so many different cards at once. During gameplay you will draw cards that you may allready have in play, and allready know what the card does.

The pre-made decks could easily have some sort of "theme". I recently learned the netrunner rules by building some demo-decks that I found on netrunneronline.com The decks had some kind of a "theme" and it just made learning the game much easier.

If you release a complete set, but only 1 of each card - I think you are mainly targeting the fans of the game. People who allready understand the rules.

What I am saying is, that I like how A Game of Thrones LCG (and probably other LCG) are doing things.

Netrunner might be very good at highlander play, but I think it will confuse beginners.
Mon Dec 5, 2011 6:52 pm
Author: darksurtur
I appreciate wormhole surfer's enthusiasm and deep knowledge, but at this point I am deeply concerned that s/he is simply too enamored with the current game, as is, to make necessary decisions about a reprint. Comments like "the current game is the best ever," "it's the deepest game ever made," and "in Netrunner, the cards don't play you, you play the cards," suggest an inability to step back and honestly assess the game and its flaws. And yes, every game has flaws, but this is especially true of CCGs due to their complex interactions and continuous expansion.

I get that sealed is a very interesting way to play Netrunner. But sealed is an advanced form of the game - people don't want a base set that tilts in favor of sealed OVER one that provides a clean, ready-to-enjoy, and learnable game. As suggested above, if sealed is so important, use icons to make it possible to sort cards into suggested packages that emulate sealed, or make a separate product.

Most importantly, as I have said at least thrice, stop thinking of Netrunner as something other than a living, breathing game and truly take to heart the suggestions of those who bring an outside perspective to bear.
Mon Dec 5, 2011 7:41 pm
Author: waddball
Denton wrote:
With fewer different cards, and pre-made decks, you will not have to read and understand so many different cards at once. During gameplay you will draw cards that you may allready have in play, and allready know what the card does.
...
Netrunner might be very good at highlander play, but I think it will confuse beginners.

I think you (and others) make a nice argument, and I can see your side without quite agreeing with it. Richard Garfield once noted (in an interview with the OP, no less) that in Magic your cards play you, while in NR you play your cards. The "engine" driving the game is complex, but the cards need not be, and there are many things you can do without cards at all, or with a very minimal tableau. There are also almost no cases in NR where Card X is useless without Card Y in play, which is very different from other CCGish games (and is a big reason why pre-made decks are necessary for those games, but not for NR).

To your point, confusion can be avoided if the initial set is chosen with simplicity of card effects in mind. NR has a lot of "simple" cards. For instance, once you understand how Ice and Icebreakers work, there is basically no complexity increase when comparing two different cards of those types (it's just cost, type, and maybe a symbol and three words of text). You're not scanning a paragraph and picking out a bunch of keywords, or relying (much) on cards coming out in a particular order.

The cards supplement the game more than they drive it. Which was one huge reason why I, as a beginner, was so drawn to this game after the first play, as it was utterly unlike other CCGs. So the same rules don't quite apply when discussing highlander, IMHO.
Mon Dec 5, 2011 8:00 pm
Author: waddball
darksurtur wrote:
But sealed is an advanced form of the game - people don't want a base set that tilts in favor of sealed OVER one that provides a clean, ready-to-enjoy, and learnable game.

Sealed is the way most people first learn the game. Take a starter, open it, read the rules, shuffle, play. You don't even need to tune the deck, as the way the Vitals worked, you were guaranteed to have a playable game right out of the box.

Again, totally unlike most CCGs. The "clean, ready-to-enjoy, learnable" game is the sealed game.
Mon Dec 5, 2011 8:05 pm
Author: dragonstout
Darksbane wrote:

Magic can be played highlander but few do it


I'm going to respond to the OP's questions in a second, but I just had to call this out as EXTREMELY false. Elder Dragon Highlander aka Commander is currently by far the most popular casual Magic format.

In any case, the most exciting thing about this Netrunner set would be the sealed-deck/limited games, and that's always Highlander anyway (unless you add a booster or two).
Mon Dec 5, 2011 8:41 pm
Author: dragonstout
I am a Netrunner "beginner": I have played Netrunner and have several NR sealed decks that I play with, but I've never played in any competitions or built any constructed decks.

1) No difference is preferred, icons are okay, but PLEASE no foils. Foils are really obnoxious to deal with in MTG, as they curl and warp.

2) Frankly, any price $100 and under is fine, people need to remember that this is a small enterprise and that you're getting 11 times as many unique cards as a Dominion box.

3) I will buy one copy, maybe two.

4) I would preorder it once it's definitely set and I'm certain my money isn't going to disappear into a hole.


By FAR the most important part of the box to me would be rules for creating fake sealed decks. This is still fairly unknown, as although we know how many of each rarity goes in a sealed deck, we don't know how they managed to always get a nice balance of the types of Vital cards in each sealed deck. I would not buy a box without good rules for creating sealed decks.

The other things I'd most like to see would be counters included: bits (we always use pennies) and counters for the various cards that need them, like viruses etc.
Mon Dec 5, 2011 8:51 pm
Author: waddball
dragonstout wrote:
By FAR the most important part of the box to me would be rules for creating fake sealed decks. This is still fairly unknown, as although we know how many of each rarity goes in a sealed deck, we don't know how they managed to always get a nice balance of the types of Vital cards in each sealed deck.

We actually do know this:

Corp: 30 Commons 11 (of 22) Vitals 17 Uncommons 2 Rares
Runner: 30 Commons 15 (of 22) Vitals 13 Uncommons 2 Rares

Booster: 7 Commons 2 Vitals 5 Uncommons 1 Rare


They are all unique cards, so you're guaranteed to have a breaker of each type, etc. Increasing the number (as I suggested earlier) might mess with this, but in the interest of variability something should be done. I could see 3 stacks of Vitals, for instance (say, 20 unique cards each side, so you have VA, VB, and VC icons), where you draw 5 cards from each. Or something along those lines. Seeing 15 of the same 22 cards every starter is just too repetitive.
Mon Dec 5, 2011 9:14 pm
Author: Darksbane
dragonstout wrote:
Darksbane wrote:

Magic can be played highlander but few do it


I'm going to respond to the OP's questions in a second, but I just had to call this out as EXTREMELY false. Elder Dragon Highlander aka Commander is currently by far the most popular casual Magic format.


That depends on your point of view. Few play it in comparison to the number that play type 2 or many of the other Magic formats, but this is extremely off topic. Lets just say that highlander formats across all CCGs are not near as popular as constructed or sealed formats.
Mon Dec 5, 2011 10:02 pm
Author: dragonstout
Darksbane wrote:
dragonstout wrote:
Darksbane wrote:

Magic can be played highlander but few do it


I'm going to respond to the OP's questions in a second, but I just had to call this out as EXTREMELY false. Elder Dragon Highlander aka Commander is currently by far the most popular casual Magic format.


That depends on your point of view. Few play it in comparison to the number that play type 2 or many of the other Magic formats, but this is extremely off topic. Lets just say that highlander formats across all CCGs are not near as popular as constructed or sealed formats.


I'm not a big Elder Dragon Highlander fan, but I'd say it's the most popular format other than type 2 and booster draft.

waddball wrote:
We actually do know this:

Corp: 30 Commons 11 (of 22) Vitals 17 Uncommons 2 Rares
Runner: 30 Commons 15 (of 22) Vitals 13 Uncommons 2 Rares

Booster: 7 Commons 2 Vitals 5 Uncommons 1 Rare

They are all unique cards, so you're guaranteed to have a breaker of each type, etc. Increasing the number (as I suggested earlier) might mess with this, but in the interest of variability something should be done. I could see 3 stacks of Vitals, for instance (say, 20 unique cards each side, so you have VA, VB, and VC icons), where you draw 5 cards from each. Or something along those lines. Seeing 15 of the same 22 cards every starter is just too repetitive.


I know about the breakdown...but does 11 completely random runner vitals really guarantee you a breaker of each type and a tag-avoider and I-forget-what-else-is-vital? I don't think so.

BTW, waddball's idea of marking the rarity of the cards on the cards to make sorting way easier for fake sealed is essential, I think. As is his idea that some other cards be made vital, like bit-gainers.
Mon Dec 5, 2011 11:01 pm
Author: wormhole surfer
fredcvbgt wrote:
If "Sealed" is the Netrunner experience that you are trying to sell, but all means, it is your project, but I do want to point out that your basis maybe rooted in your personal viewpoints that may not be hold true for the general public.

I personally do not like Sealed in every CCG that's I've ever played and like you I've played pretty much all of them. Some people love sealed but it definitely is not for everyone.

I agree Netrunner plays extremely well sealed and could be the CCG that plays sealed best, but I've never played a CCG where having multiple copies of cards is competitively on par or worse than having one being able to have one. I've played Netrunner from its inception and still play to this very day and I assure you my finely tuned decks will have a heavy advantage over a highlander deck. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

As long as people know a sealed experience is what they are getting, that's fine, but I'm sure there are others like me that thought this was about getting a full deck construction package and not a highlander/sealed package.


Hi, i am going to respond to your points, anyway thanks for your comments .

i don't want to provide a sealed experience with the Netrunner reprint.
You are right to say that sealed games is my preference but it is also the best for majority of Netrunner players.
The main goal of this reprint is to provide cards to players who have not.When you start a game, you have to start with something, in Netrunner you can start with building decks with only 1 copy of a cards i still and forever maintain this because it is just true .
this box has to be a super starter, if you like the game, then you can buy more .

don't compare please ccg and Netrunner ... This game is so far away much better than any other one .

you're right, even in Netrunner playing a decks with multiple copies of cards will give you an advantage on people playing only cards in single but giving advantage in NR is not giving voctory BUT i agree with you that for tournament play for exemple people as to be in the same format.
what i tried to explaine in my big post upper is that people will choose by themselves the way they will play and consequently choose oponent who play the same format .

yeah sure, if you wanna build decks with several copies you'll have to buy several boxes ...

buying X times a box containing 374 cards is the same that buying Y boxes containing X copies of a cards ( X is equal to the maximum copiy of a card you want and Y is equal to the number of part the base set could eb divided )it is exactly the same for people who want constructed decks ( whatever the constructed format he will play) BUT we don't impose to buy X copies of cards for people who just want to start or play sealed/higlander
Do You agree with that ? with the fact that it is not faire for them ?

You know i have a very huge collection of cards , i can build EVERY Netrunner decks whatever the format, if i add to rate format in terms of pleasure it would be something like this :

sealed 10/10
No limit 9/10
1/15 8/10
Highlander 7/10

as you see i also enjoy deck building and constructed decks, i love to have brainstorming and deep analysis of metagame, strategy, ...
Mon Dec 5, 2011 11:06 pm
Author: wormhole surfer
waddball wrote:
Icons/Foils
No foils, yuck. Adding a "Vital" icon is essential for a game where you need to break out certain cards after each session (simulating a sealed-deck experience). Maybe/maybe not on the other rarities (I say "not", as a reboot as an LCG/non-collectible eliminates the need, but not with the Vitals: those must be marked for easy separation).

Price/Pre-order
I don't really care on the price, I'll likely buy it regardless, unless you do something really weird. Ditto with pre-ordering (once I see the real plan and it isn't bizarre).

General Remarks
NR plays best sealed, but this "NR Redux" set is a different product, so I think a slavish devotion to replicating the old game is a bad idea. If the standard, "out of the box" experience for this is intended to mimic sealed, that experience should be enhanced. Some ideas/opinions:

1. Make more cards Vitals. The rock-paper-scissors nature of breakers and ice requires some equivalent of the Vital rarity, but this is an opportunity for more variability, rather than "okay, Loony Goon or Shaka?" for the 50th time. The Runner needs more cheap bit gainers, and the Corp more cheap/annoying Ice, etc.

2. Make the initial set a "best of" some subset (300?) of the old game's cards. Duplicating the base set, Proteus, Classic, then Rogues/Silent Impact/Chrysalid Matrix/Deep Runs/Dangerous Allies/etc. is a bad idea. Why repeat the mistakes of Proteus, or have Stealth remain so useless (for example)? You should apply an editorial hand and include some cards from Proteus and Classic, and maybe even some unpublished cards, in the initial NR Redux set. Crowdsource some of this, or if you're in communication with Garfield, then...hey, there you go.

3. Keep (but fix) the unlimited constructed format. People can always use sleeves and proxies, as they do now. Yes, some cards need fixing (Enterprise Inc. Shields, Tycho, Viral Pipeline), but it's a unique concept that shouldn't be removed, even though it's much harder to design around. If people don't want to play it, don't! Easy peasy.

4a. Release larger expansions (150?) less frequently rather than small monthly ones (such as the FFG LCG model). It's easier to stay "unified" and have larger themes more comprehensively integrated, and there's less of the "keep up or fall behind" mentality.

4b. But only add fully supported functions via expansions. I like the idea of Bad Publicity, but 10 cards!?

Could go on, will stop there. It's great that you're looking into this, best of luck to you!


Hi Jon, nice to see you here

+1000 for your post?
i like the way you analyze the game, your critisms are constructed by your experience of the game and not only a " war" on number of copies needed ...

your very right on the point 1 and maybe your point 2 is linked to that.
maybe yes, the old base set and expansion has to be divided and newly constructed in order to deeply improve the game experience.
but i am not in favor of put aside some cards ( release some later yes but not forget them)
as you maybe see, we relaesed open war last year, i took some late to release the newest Deep Run , just because we, (NRO team )are in late to balanced it.
I don't want to release every old virtual expansion released just because some of them are bad worded, bad balanced, ...but a best of some . yes maybe, or rebalanced them completly .. will see later ... in a first place the "big box"

you'll see that in many Playful's EE expansion newest BAd pub cards will be, and Deep run runner part is mainly focused on Stealth cards .. and i have to tell you that a kind of new bartmoss will be released ... ! and it will be a stealth icebreaker !!
just be patient .. you will see that underpowered cards of the past will have an interest


you are once again right on your 4a point, and i'll go further.. as i said in a previous post, Netrunner doesn't need many many cards for several reasons :

people will not follow
Netrunner doesn't need thousand of new cards
Netrunner CAN'T have as much flexibility of some others games ( from Richard Garfield comments ...)

if we don't un balanced the game and have "the magic power syndrom" we have to respect it ...


Thank for your answer
Mon Dec 5, 2011 11:23 pm
Author: wormhole surfer
Denton wrote:
I agree with alot of what Darksbane, and other people have said.

I like the idea of multiple copies of some cards, and then not releasing the full set all at once.
I think it will make it much easier for beginners to get into the game.
The box should also have pre-made decks.

Offcourse expansions should have the rest of the cards.

With fewer different cards, and pre-made decks, you will not have to read and understand so many different cards at once. During gameplay you will draw cards that you may allready have in play, and allready know what the card does.

The pre-made decks could easily have some sort of "theme". I recently learned the netrunner rules by building some demo-decks that I found on netrunneronline.com The decks had some kind of a "theme" and it just made learning the game much easier.

If you release a complete set, but only 1 of each card - I think you are mainly targeting the fans of the game. People who allready understand the rules.

What I am saying is, that I like how A Game of Thrones LCG (and probably other LCG) are doing things.

Netrunner might be very good at highlander play, but I think it will confuse beginners.


Hi Runner and thank you for your comments .
I like too build decks with multiple copy of a card, that's why i bought several cards.
releasing a full set at once ?
as i already said ... what is a full set in Netrunner ? once again we can't impose to people to buy more cards that they want...

getting into a game has always be with a starter option or premade decks
the big box will be designed like this don't fear, it will contained playable decks and all to start.

my starting idea was to release the base set in the first box but yes maybe we could redisgn it by creating a sort of best of really improve to get better into the game and release after in expansions the sequel of every expansions.

Please stop to compare Netrunner as a LCG or other CCG
Netrunner is Netrunner it can't be compared to any other game

you raised a good point where you speak about targeting people who already know the rules and you're right to say that playing some theme decks is easier to understand the different concept of the game.

a such box is made to start the game so such point have to be taken into accounts and the difficulty is to do a good mix of
beginner/experienced
quantity/cost

i am not drastically against a box containing several copies of cards BUT

I couldn't tell the number of copies... since i repeat myself it is a nonsense for Netrunner
and second point we have to let people buy what they want ... and you could tell many 100000 of good arguments, if a players don't want to buy more than one you can't force him ... the contrary is possible with my idea ... not with yours
Mon Dec 5, 2011 11:36 pm
Author: wormhole surfer
darksurtur wrote:
I appreciate wormhole surfer's enthusiasm and deep knowledge, but at this point I am deeply concerned that s/he is simply too enamored with the current game, as is, to make necessary decisions about a reprint. Comments like "the current game is the best ever," "it's the deepest game ever made," and "in Netrunner, the cards don't play you, you play the cards," suggest an inability to step back and honestly assess the game and its flaws. And yes, every game has flaws, but this is especially true of CCGs due to their complex interactions and continuous expansion.

I get that sealed is a very interesting way to play Netrunner. But sealed is an advanced form of the game - people don't want a base set that tilts in favor of sealed OVER one that provides a clean, ready-to-enjoy, and learnable game. As suggested above, if sealed is so important, use icons to make it possible to sort cards into suggested packages that emulate sealed, or make a separate product.

Most importantly, as I have said at least thrice, stop thinking of Netrunner as something other than a living, breathing game and truly take to heart the suggestions of those who bring an outside perspective to bear.


I have to admit that i agree with you ...

but "in Netrunner, the cards don't play you, you play the cards," this is a quote from Richard Himself it is not from me ...

it is really difficult to be objective for me because i play since 1999 and have 6000 cards.
i have to take into account beginner, experienced players, beginners who have cards, beginner who have not cards, experienced who have cards and experienced who have not.

Which is true is that the new bix box has to be an entry point for the game
it has to be playable right out the box
it has to be simple to learn and present several aspects of the game

how to do it respecting these conditions :

it has to be the cheapest
and we can't force people to buy more that they want/need .

i am not against your ideas guys, i am for the evolution but my experienced shaped me in order to present the project in the best way to me ...

Mon Dec 5, 2011 11:46 pm
Author: wormhole surfer
waddball wrote:
Denton wrote:
With fewer different cards, and pre-made decks, you will not have to read and understand so many different cards at once. During gameplay you will draw cards that you may allready have in play, and allready know what the card does.
...
Netrunner might be very good at highlander play, but I think it will confuse beginners.

I think you (and others) make a nice argument, and I can see your side without quite agreeing with it. Richard Garfield once noted (in an interview with the OP, no less) that in Magic your cards play you, while in NR you play your cards. The "engine" driving the game is complex, but the cards need not be, and there are many things you can do without cards at all, or with a very minimal tableau. There are also almost no cases in NR where Card X is useless without Card Y in play, which is very different from other CCGish games (and is a big reason why pre-made decks are necessary for those games, but not for NR).

To your point, confusion can be avoided if the initial set is chosen with simplicity of card effects in mind. NR has a lot of "simple" cards. For instance, once you understand how Ice and Icebreakers work, there is basically no complexity increase when comparing two different cards of those types (it's just cost, type, and maybe a symbol and three words of text). You're not scanning a paragraph and picking out a bunch of keywords, or relying (much) on cards coming out in a particular order.

The cards supplement the game more than they drive it. Which was one huge reason why I, as a beginner, was so drawn to this game after the first play, as it was utterly unlike other CCGs. So the same rules don't quite apply when discussing highlander, IMHO.


i agree on all, it is very hard to explain for me my point of view since NR is very different than other games ...
Mon Dec 5, 2011 11:49 pm
Author: wormhole surfer
dragonstout wrote:
Darksbane wrote:
dragonstout wrote:
Darksbane wrote:

Magic can be played highlander but few do it


I'm going to respond to the OP's questions in a second, but I just had to call this out as EXTREMELY false. Elder Dragon Highlander aka Commander is currently by far the most popular casual Magic format.


That depends on your point of view. Few play it in comparison to the number that play type 2 or many of the other Magic formats, but this is extremely off topic. Lets just say that highlander formats across all CCGs are not near as popular as constructed or sealed formats.


I'm not a big Elder Dragon Highlander fan, but I'd say it's the most popular format other than type 2 and booster draft.

waddball wrote:
We actually do know this:

Corp: 30 Commons 11 (of 22) Vitals 17 Uncommons 2 Rares
Runner: 30 Commons 15 (of 22) Vitals 13 Uncommons 2 Rares

Booster: 7 Commons 2 Vitals 5 Uncommons 1 Rare

They are all unique cards, so you're guaranteed to have a breaker of each type, etc. Increasing the number (as I suggested earlier) might mess with this, but in the interest of variability something should be done. I could see 3 stacks of Vitals, for instance (say, 20 unique cards each side, so you have VA, VB, and VC icons), where you draw 5 cards from each. Or something along those lines. Seeing 15 of the same 22 cards every starter is just too repetitive.


I know about the breakdown...but does 11 completely random runner vitals really guarantee you a breaker of each type and a tag-avoider and I-forget-what-else-is-vital? I don't think so.

BTW, waddball's idea of marking the rarity of the cards on the cards to make sorting way easier for fake sealed is essential, I think. As is his idea that some other cards be made vital, like bit-gainers.


i agree with that guy
Mon Dec 5, 2011 11:51 pm
Author: Kaworu17
I sent you a PM. Hope this goes well, Netrunner is one of the most depressing failures of a great game I've ever seen.
Mon Dec 5, 2011 11:59 pm
Author: wormhole surfer
Hi again everyone,

i suggest, in order to clarify this topic to separate our comments .
I suggest that this topic could remain the one about jacking into my mailing lists for people interested in the projects
to summ up things i need ( better in PM)

first and last name
email adress
1 what kind of stuff could be attractive for you : alternative art on some cards/foils cards, tokens, playmat, ...

2 what could be for you the best price ( i know it is difficult to say about since it will depends of the exact contents but let say about 400 cards inside)

3 will you buy it ? and how many ? ( reliable to point 2 .. difficult to say , i know, since the contents is not established ...)

4 will you preorder this ? ( kickstarter, preordering on editor's , ...)

this topic is just a tool for me to evaluate the number of people interested and put some numbers behind.

For other comments about your wishes for the box, what is best to begin, copies of cards, ... you know what i mean.. i suggest to post in the other topic i'm going to create just right now ...

Thanks so much guys for your interests.
(i am going to post here soon , a deeper self presentation and a deeper analysis of what i have in mind to develop the project)


seeya in the other topic to discuss about the contents

Let the Run Begin !!
Tue Dec 6, 2011 12:02 am
Author: wormhole surfer
Kaworu17 wrote:
I sent you a PM. Hope this goes well, Netrunner is one of the most depressing failures of a great game I've ever seen.


what is crazy is that it was not really a failure ... see one of the topics where i talked about the Netrunner Death ... but can't remember where ...
+1 if you liberate it
Tue Dec 6, 2011 12:04 am
Author: wormhole surfer
waddball wrote:
darksurtur wrote:
But sealed is an advanced form of the game - people don't want a base set that tilts in favor of sealed OVER one that provides a clean, ready-to-enjoy, and learnable game.

Sealed is the way most people first learn the game. Take a starter, open it, read the rules, shuffle, play. You don't even need to tune the deck, as the way the Vitals worked, you were guaranteed to have a playable game right out of the box.

Again, totally unlike most CCGs. The "clean, ready-to-enjoy, learnable" game is the sealed game.


useless to say that i agree .

Once again; i am not against ideas, but our experienced showed that to learn , start and enjoy netrunner at his best, opening a starter was the best thing ...sorry it is not MY idea, but most of people one.
this is a fact .
maybe my english drived you to understand bad what i have in mind .. if it is that, then sorry, i will try to improve my english.

i'll stop comment here about this subject, it was just a quote i forgot to reply ...
for other comments please see ,if you want, the other topic i've created.
Tue Dec 6, 2011 12:20 am
Author: Tinweasel
Quote:
5 as i said there is no advantage /disadvantage by running several copies of a card, it just provides different pgaming experiences and feeling.


Just some thoughts on this. While it is true that certain constructed decks will include multiple copies of a card (and I'm talking up to 10-12 here, or even more, not 3), it can be argued that in a normal situation, it is actually worse in Netrunner to run several copies of ice and icebreaker cards, which are the bread and butter of the game.

Why? Well, different icebreakers are stronger or weaker against different kinds of ice. When I see what kinds of ice the Corp is rezzing, I'm actually better off if I have a choice of 3-4 icebreakers of each type in my deck. Fetch cards like The Short Circuit are standard to include and will get you the icebreaker that fits the best. Likewise, the Corp will react once the Runner starts filling his MU with icebreakers. "Useless" ice will be discarded or overwritten; ice that is expensive to break for that specific combination of breakers will be installed. If I only pack Filters, Skeleton Passkeys will bulldoze my fort. It is key to have a variety of ice cards to have lots of choices. If my deck strategy doesn't specifically call for a certain kind of ice to play a pivotal role, I'll always run just one copy of all ice cards and ice breakers because this is stronger than having multiples. Magic players, digest that.

Some other thing: What one could think about is dividing the cards into two sets, to be published in two boxes. One box would include those cards you will only need one or maybe three copies of in any deck (the Decks or Political Overthrow come to mind), and the other box would include those cards that open up interesting deckbuilding possibilities if you have 15 of them or so (Loan from Chiba, Score!, Restrictive Net Zoning, Newsgroup Taunting ... and Bodyweight Synthetic Blood). In that way, players wouldn't have to buy a fifteenth Arasaka Portable Prototype along with their fifteenth Bodyweight Synthetic Blood. But overall, one copy of each card in the base set is fine with me. It gives you all the pieces to play with, period.
Tue Dec 6, 2011 12:23 am
Author: fredcvbgt
wormhole surfer wrote:
Please stop to compare Netrunner as a LCG or other CCG
Netrunner is Netrunner it can't be compared to any other game


wormhole surfer wrote:
"in Netrunner, the cards don't play you, you play the cards," this is a quote from Richard Himself it is not from me


This goes back to my earlier comment about how your options and perception of the game might not concur with the general public.

Even though it is a quote from the games creator, that is still a persons opinion and perception. None of my comments are meant to be personal. I hope I don't come across that way. I just want to provide a constructive view point and giving a voice to that view point.

Sealed, to me, makes any deck construction game most like "the cards play you". Having any given card a 1/45 chance of being drawn increases the probability that you aren't going to have the right card for the challenge that your opponent presents. You have expensive ice breakers but no efficient way of getting bits or your ice breakers just don't break the walls the corporation has up and you have no efficient way of drawing or searching your deck.

Even if you include 3 copies of 60 unique corp and 60 runner cards for 360 card print run you'll be producing a similar amount of cards as you originally intended. You can still do sealed, you just a smaller selection of cards to choose from initially until an expansion can be released, but you gain a fuller deck construction experience and all your preconstructed decks are right there, just include a list of cards to be put together for things like first time play and balanced theme decks.

Try to have something for every format right out of the box and not just everything for one format. Multiple copies doesn't hurt sealed as much as having only one of each does hurt constructed.
Tue Dec 6, 2011 1:19 am
Author: wormhole surfer
fredcvbgt wrote:
wormhole surfer wrote:
Please stop to compare Netrunner as a LCG or other CCG
Netrunner is Netrunner it can't be compared to any other game


wormhole surfer wrote:
"in Netrunner, the cards don't play you, you play the cards," this is a quote from Richard Himself it is not from me


This goes back to my earlier comment about how your options and perception of the game might not concur with the general public.

Even though it is a quote from the games creator, that is still a persons opinion and perception. None of my comments are meant to be personal. I hope I don't come across that way. I just want to provide a constructive view point and giving a voice to that view point.

Sealed, to me, makes any deck construction game most like "the cards play you". Having any given card a 1/45 chance of being drawn increases the probability that you aren't going to have the right card for the challenge that your opponent presents. You have expensive ice breakers but no efficient way of getting bits or your ice breakers just don't break the walls the corporation has up and you have no efficient way of drawing or searching your deck.

Even if you include 3 copies of 60 unique corp and 60 runner cards for 360 card print run you'll be producing a similar amount of cards as you originally intended. You can still do sealed, you just a smaller selection of cards to choose from initially until an expansion can be released, but you gain a fuller deck construction experience and all your preconstructed decks are right there, just include a list of cards to be put together for things like first time play and balanced theme decks.

Try to have something for every format right out of the box and not just everything for one format. Multiple copies doesn't hurt sealed as much as having only one of each does hurt constructed.

please post this in the other thread, just in order to clarify this one, i'll be happy to reply there .
Tue Dec 6, 2011 8:15 am
Author: dasher47051
Hi,

I dabbled a bit in NR back when it was released but never really had anyone to play against.

I really love the artwork so a full set release would be awesome, as I'm miles away from a full set myself.
Haven't read all the (lengthy) posts so please forgive me if the question is redundant: Do you consider re-releasing all the sets including Proteus and Classic or just the base set?

So yep, I'd preorder it once, but not in multiples. The price? LCG base sets cost 20-30 Euros for approx. 300 cards. You do the math from there...

It'd be great if it wasn't via kickstarter, because I'm living in Europe and kickstarter usually has you pay another $40-50 just for shipping and handling.

A bientot,
Carsten
Tue Dec 6, 2011 2:53 pm
Author: tocoking
1 Use new icons for this set, good idea. I hate foils, they warp and ar ugly. Who invented these foils anyway? Alternate art is a must, use new fresh updated art.

2 Not more than 40,-Euro's.

3 No, I own the base set and decks.

4 I would only buy when released.

Wish you all the best with this project. Good idea. You're driven, go on with it. Meet your goal.
Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:17 pm
Author: waddball
dragonstout wrote:
I know about the breakdown...but does 11 completely random runner vitals really guarantee you a breaker of each type and a tag-avoider and I-forget-what-else-is-vital? I don't think so.

It doesn't. I had never sorted this out before, but an interesting question. It's actually 15 vitals for Runner, with 4/4/4/3 guaranteed sentry/code gate/wall/tag cards (from a set of 6/5/5/6 vitals, respectively). So it's possible to not get a base link, but never possible to not get a particular type of breaker. (I don't think the Corp had similar "sub-sorting" restrictions on its vitals, so some starter decks were a little heavy/light on agenda points, but I'm not sure.)

Anyway, hence my issue with seeing the same cards too often (not that they're bad cards; in some cases they're a little too essential). That's all fine in a world where you buy a starter or two and then all boosters after that, but less so in a new "fixed" model.
Tue Dec 6, 2011 4:12 pm
Author: darkavatar1470
I've played quite a few CCGs back in the day, had never played Netrunner before, but heard quite a lot of good praise for it, so I am definitively interested.

Reading though this thread I can feel that Ludovic and others love NR a lot, and I think everybody else is really more qualified than me to say whats "the best way" to play Netrunner.

I've noticed that the main point of conflict is on how many copies of each card should be included in the box. From a newbie that never played before, I'd say that it is totally a moot point for me. I just want open the box and play a game!! You see, I don't know enough to care if there is one or 15 copies of a card in there, I just want to play the legendary game that is called Netrunner.


But then again, maybe I'm not your target customer. Sorry to tell you this, but I don't think a big box of 375 different cards attracts me or other causal gamers that never played before. Of course it is possible to play any CCG by randomly pulling 45~75 cards in a deck, but how can you promise me a satisfying experience of playing Netrunner that way?

I feel that some jerk will get a bad experience from just a few plays, and complain that this big box is just a method of forcing bunch of overpriced cards down my throat. But I also agree that it is very probable that I will come to the same conclusion as you, and think it is best to play sealed or highlander by buying your big box. But then again, since I've never played before, I have no idea what I am talking about.

Actually, I just hope you experts can come up with a few packages that can best lure & hook me in to buy Netrunner, and meanwhile teach me to play it your way, and have a good game all the time.


And now, to the poll questions...

1. Since I never played before, I can't comment on the artwork, but I think that Icons should be small enough to put in a non distracting corner, and can be used as rarity symbols by changing colors. Foil cards are just a bad idea, but I'm actually fine if its only just a cool promo version of an existing normal card.

2. $20~$30 for a starter set, and hopefully under $70~$100 for a full box set

3&4. I would like to buy a few preconstructed deck to try out the game quickly, but still have the option of obtaining a full set relatively easily if the urge comes up. (yes, I know that is probably too much to ask for)


Sorry for the long post, sort of just felt like typing it out...
Tue Dec 6, 2011 6:01 pm
Author: darksurtur
wormhole surfer wrote:
I am just a player, a fan, maybe the biggest in terms of quantity of rares, times spend, games played ( sorry if you find me “showoff” don’t know the “good word” in English for that but I played over than a thousand times and yes I am crazy of it)
But I want to do something
I WON’T NEVER republish the game by myself so don’t be feared about giving money to me , or quality of reprint or questions about that.
A such reprint will be done by professional of this market
May goal here is just to gather informations, giving them to people caring aboug them and engaged a dialog I am more a linker than the person who will do it…
...
The risk for me doing that is that nothing will happen and I will have spend a lot of time for nothing, ok no problems I accept it.
The risk is also that Wotc or another company rerelease the game using all the work I did without considering me … ok I accept

MY ONLY GOAL IS TO SEE NETRUNNER ALIVE, THAT’S ALL.

Not to find opponent because I have many, not to get cards because I have ( except for tournaments where my stock decrease …) But just because I consider NR as my baby and just to push it “under the light” and make people realize again how it is good .


I really appreciate this post and am starting to come around on some of your points.

On the other hand, while I agree that something of this ambition requires some publisher experience, I very sincerely believe that if this happens think you deserve to share in many of the rewards, financial as well as intangible. This is largely driven by your efforts and knowledge, and you are clearly putting in many hours on this. Don't sell yourself short (literally).
Tue Dec 6, 2011 9:56 pm
Author: Hertzog
I am so happy that you are undertaking this endeavour; Netrunner was a huge part of my teenage years and I would easily spring for an LCG/ Big Box venture of original cards

Over the years I've lost, gifted and sold my collection of CCG's, and when I thought back on it, the only game I really missed was Netrunner. I've been reduced to playing with proxy cards since I started playing again, but I know 4 other friends that I play with regularly- and this is the generation that never saw the game the first time around. And they adore it.

I think there's definite scope for marketing a non-CCG model here. Please keep us informed!

Tue Dec 6, 2011 10:10 pm
Author: dboeren
I currently play the Call of Cthulhu LCG and wanted to bring up their model and how players perceive it.

They sell a Core set with 1 copy apiece of 165 cards (plus rulebook and accessories). No duplicates of any cards.

The good part about doing 1 copy per card is that players get to see more cards. The job of the Core set is to get people interested in the game as well as to be a fun game with sufficient variety "out of the box". From that standpoint the Core set works well.

The downside for serious players is that you need to buy three copies of the Core set to get a full set of cards. This is made significantly more expensive than it should be because you're also buying three copies of all the accessories. Many players have complained about this and wish that Fantasy Flight would offer an expansion with 2 copies of all the Core cards (just cards, nothing else) they could buy to fill in their collection. If you decide to go with 1 copy per card I would urge you to look at this expansion idea. It reuses the same cards you're already packing in the Core so it should be fairly easy to do as there is no separate printing outside of a different smaller box.

I agree with others that you should do as many cards as you can fit for a reasonable price. $50 seems like a reasonable target. I'd personally pay $60, some folks may only be willing to go $40.

I would prefer to see expansions be in the 3-copy format (is that the max number you can take, it's been so long since I played that I'm not sure?). Once you've decided you like the game enough to expand it, I think you an safely assume the player wants a full playset, that he is serious.

I think the LCG model is fantastic, much better than CCG for many players and absolutely the right way to go with the reprint. If you can successfully get the rights and rerelease this I'll be lined up to buy a copy and any expansions that come out. Good luck, all of our hopes go with you!
Wed Dec 7, 2011 8:15 pm
Author: sdiberar
The problem with an LCG model for Netrunner is that it has no card limits. You could theoretically need 20 copies of a card. Even worse, the utility of a given quantity of a card varies wildly. There are some you would rarely need more than one of, and others you frequently use 8-12 of. It's a packaging nightmare, because of course not everyone agrees on what reasonable quantities are. You are pretty much guaranteed to have too many or not enough to please everyone.
Wed Dec 7, 2011 8:29 pm
Author: darksurtur
sdiberar wrote:
The problem with an LCG model for Netrunner is that it has no card limits. You could theoretically need 20 copies of a card. Even worse, the utility of a given quantity of a card varies wildly. There are some you would rarely need more than one of, and others you frequently use 8-12 of. It's a packaging nightmare, because of course not everyone agrees on what reasonable quantities are. You are pretty much guaranteed to have too many or not enough to please everyone.


Or maybe the rules could change to accommodate the new format. That remains my preferred solution (just print differently named cards with the same function in expansions if 6 or more are really needed).
Wed Dec 7, 2011 8:31 pm
Author: darksurtur
wormhole surfer wrote:
darksurtur wrote:
sdiberar wrote:
The problem with an LCG model for Netrunner is that it has no card limits. You could theoretically need 20 copies of a card. Even worse, the utility of a given quantity of a card varies wildly. There are some you would rarely need more than one of, and others you frequently use 8-12 of. It's a packaging nightmare, because of course not everyone agrees on what reasonable quantities are. You are pretty much guaranteed to have too many or not enough to please everyone.


Or maybe the rules could change to accommodate the new format. That remains my preferred solution (just print differently named cards with the same function in expansions if 6 or more are really needed).


no sorry but that is an impossible thing.

Changing that is changing Netrunner too far from its concept, if you change that then building and construction will means nothing.
I like 1/15 but is is far away from the liberty of building we encounter in No limit .

maybe you should try to run NRO and print proxy and try to get deeper into the game to relize that by yourself ...

I keep repeating myslef without make you realize that ... and i can't with words .. ah if only you were near Paris


I wish I were in Paris myself ... I'll defer to you but, with my complete lack of experience with the game, the 3X idea is intuitively appealing.
Wed Dec 7, 2011 8:45 pm
Author: waddball
Here is my idea from the "BIG BOX Reprint" thread, which speaks directly to the problems stemming from the no-limit format that Scott articulated very well:

Quote:
Here are my assumptions:

- The original NR starters were (are!) great for newbies.
- No card limits is a unique feature that should be preserved.

Here are my ideas for the initial "core" product:

1. Go with 1 copy each of a set of X (300?).

2. Select cards across published sets, maybe 10% new ones (reboot the game, don't just reprint it).

3. Use icons to group cards by type for easy breakout for "standard" play (the new equivalent of sealed).

4. Steal Race for the Galaxy's starting deck idea for beginners (mark sets of cards with tiny "alpha", "beta", "gamma", etc., so you can quickly form workable decks with simple complementary cards).

5. Add 120 "proxy" cards, no artwork, marked "A" through "J" x 6 cards each (so 60 for Runner, 60 for Corp). Call them something thematic (e.g., "Clone Card A" or "Initialize Variable C", whatever).

6. Have a double-sided playmat; "Basic" side with helpful stuff for newbs, "Advanced" side with "slots" to hold the proxied cards for easy reference.

7. Sell proxy sets independent of the core set. More A-J sets and maybe a K-T set for those wanting more than 6 of a given card or to replace worn cards. Of course, for many decks, you could use A & B to get 12x a given card, and so forth.

8. Release expansions along the same lines, just smaller sets (150 cards?).

I realize that the proxy idea could make for a clunky experience, but I think a clearly marked reference area will go a long way to making it easy. Constructed is for more experienced players anyway, and this accommodates them and newbies, who can just ignore all that and build their clearly marked sets after each match. This way there are no redundant cards and you have a ton of deckbuilding flexibility right out of the box.

Standard/sealed play would be fairly easy, too: just use the icon sets to break out stacks, shuffle each stack, draw a subset of each to guarantee a valid deck, and play.
Wed Dec 7, 2011 8:49 pm
Author: Logoth
Answers to the questions from NRO

1. I don't care too much about the symbols. I would buy a box set starter if there was some commitment from FFG (or whoever) to a number of expansions that would include new content. I really like the art, so hopefully that wouldn't change too much. I think foil cards are silly, but that could just be me.

2. $40 =/- $5 seems about right.

3. See 1.

4. If FFG (or whoever) would commit to enough expansions with new content, I would happily pre-order.


Wed Dec 7, 2011 9:26 pm
Author: wedgeex
1) Symbols to denote it is an LCG/Non-collectible version of the game is perfect. It allows the collectors to retain a product that is unique and very difficult to find while renewing interest in the game's collectibility.

2) $40-60 MSRP sounds very reasonable for such a great game

3) Indeed I will purchase this.

4) I would Kickstart/pre-order this game for sure. Netrunner is still the most fun I've had playing a card game.
Wed Dec 7, 2011 9:36 pm
Author: craniac
wormhole surfer wrote:
i've looked @kickstarter .. it requires to be a permanent resident of the USA ... :(

i've found that :
http://babeldoor.com/

it is the same but for French people ;)


Follow the money.
Thu Dec 8, 2011 3:48 am
Author: baronkohinar
1. I think the set icons are a good idea. I know some people like foils but, at least to me, they raise the price for no real gain, aside from being shiny. Not to mention foil cards physically warp sometimes. Myself, I'd rather see my money go towards there being more cards in the set rather than foils.

2. I think $60 would be ideal. Obviously the cheaper the better (especially for those of us who are considering buying more than one set), but from what I hear, it sounds like $60 is fair.

3. I would definitely buy it if I had the chance. My only concern about a limited run would be that it would sell out before I had a chance to get everything I wanted (especially with the likelihood of people buying more than one set).

4. I'd be happy to pre-order. Hopefully, though, there will be enough to go around that people who didn't pre-order still get a chance to buy (or people that want to buy multiple sets don't necessarily have to do so all at once).
Thu Dec 8, 2011 12:34 pm
Author: dboeren
darksurtur wrote:
sdiberar wrote:
The problem with an LCG model for Netrunner is that it has no card limits. You could theoretically need 20 copies of a card. Even worse, the utility of a given quantity of a card varies wildly. There are some you would rarely need more than one of, and others you frequently use 8-12 of. It's a packaging nightmare, because of course not everyone agrees on what reasonable quantities are. You are pretty much guaranteed to have too many or not enough to please everyone.


Or maybe the rules could change to accommodate the new format. That remains my preferred solution (just print differently named cards with the same function in expansions if 6 or more are really needed).


Yes, changing the format to put a reasonable card limit (no more than 4, preferably 3) seems like it would almost be a necessity. Without it, it becomes prohibitively expensive to collect a full set of cards which many players will see as desirable to do.

The other option is to package extra copies of some cards and fewer of others, but that runs into several problems:
1. Still has a perception that you might want more copies of the ones that only pack a few
2. Depends on someone deciding for every individual card how many copies people need, it's extra work and some players will disagree and feel they're forced to buy more anyway
3. When they do buy more they'll feel they wasted money getting massive duplicates of cards they DIDN'T want more of

It just seems like a train-wreck all around and will drive people aware who aren't Netrunner veterans because they're the only ones who will probably understand WHY at a glance. I'd much rather have a nice neat model where you can take X of any given card and X-many come in the box. As darksurtur pointed out, you can still pack extras of some cards by giving them different names and maybe slight differences in functionality.

Frankly, unlimited copies of cards would make the game a harder sell to new players and that's the last thing we need if we want to resurrect it.
Thu Dec 8, 2011 3:10 pm
Author: wormhole surfer
dboeren wrote:
darksurtur wrote:
sdiberar wrote:
The problem with an LCG model for Netrunner is that it has no card limits. You could theoretically need 20 copies of a card. Even worse, the utility of a given quantity of a card varies wildly. There are some you would rarely need more than one of, and others you frequently use 8-12 of. It's a packaging nightmare, because of course not everyone agrees on what reasonable quantities are. You are pretty much guaranteed to have too many or not enough to please everyone.


Or maybe the rules could change to accommodate the new format. That remains my preferred solution (just print differently named cards with the same function in expansions if 6 or more are really needed).


Yes, changing the format to put a reasonable card limit (no more than 4, preferably 3) seems like it would almost be a necessity. Without it, it becomes prohibitively expensive to collect a full set of cards which many players will see as desirable to do.

The other option is to package extra copies of some cards and fewer of others, but that runs into several problems:
1. Still has a perception that you might want more copies of the ones that only pack a few
2. Depends on someone deciding for every individual card how many copies people need, it's extra work and some players will disagree and feel they're forced to buy more anyway
3. When they do buy more they'll feel they wasted money getting massive duplicates of cards they DIDN'T want more of

It just seems like a train-wreck all around and will drive people aware who aren't Netrunner veterans because they're the only ones who will probably understand WHY at a glance. I'd much rather have a nice neat model where you can take X of any given card and X-many come in the box. As darksurtur pointed out, you can still pack extras of some cards by giving them different names and maybe slight differences in functionality.

Frankly, unlimited copies of cards would make the game a harder sell to new players and that's the last thing we need if we want to resurrect it.


no changing that will change all the core of building which will become uninteresting .if you change that then deck building is almost dead, if you change that then it won't be NR anymore and if it is not NR anymore, no reason to reprint it.
i don"'t knpw where is the problem by letting people playing 20 cards if they want...
1 that's why it needs to be sold in 1 copie. or even number
2 i is exactly the same whatever the number of cards in a pack ...
3 that's why i talked about store opening the box and sell for single the cards ...

why unlim copies will discourage new players ?
do you think i started the game will all the cards i have ?
Thu Dec 8, 2011 3:36 pm
Author: wormhole surfer
i don' know why people don't want to trust expert players of NR telling that 3 copies means nothing and restrict the game too far ( it is not uninteresting but quite ...)
no limit allow 1000 % more deck than 1/15
stop thinking lcg think how to play netrunner
why waiting for a reprint since all cards are on NRO go there print cards and play, just discover the game by yourself... you'll see we are right
Thu Dec 8, 2011 3:41 pm
Author: waddball
dboeren wrote:
Yes, changing the format to put a reasonable card limit (no more than 4, preferably 3) seems like it would almost be a necessity. Without it, it becomes prohibitively expensive to collect a full set of cards which many players will see as desirable to do.

Please see my proposal about using formal proxy cards.

Quote:
Frankly, unlimited copies of cards would make the game a harder sell to new players and that's the last thing we need if we want to resurrect it.

New players won't need to be doing much deck building. "Sealed" play is very good in NR, better than in any other CCG, and even many NR veterans prefer that format.

Again, I refer you back to my post on using proxy cards. You could have a full base set (374 cards), marked with simple icons and/or "starting deck" markers to help beginning players and anyone wanting to play a randomized setup. Then off to the side, an "advanced" game using formal proxies to stand in for multiples of a given card if you want to build decks.

The hard sell, to me, would be truncating the card set and diluting it so much out of the gate with unnecessary multiples (making it less variable and harder to do randomized setup) that beginners have a "meh" experience.
Thu Dec 8, 2011 3:51 pm
Author: minionhunter
wormhole surfer wrote:
i don' know why people don't want to trust expert players of NR telling that 3 copies means nothing and restrict the game too far ( it is not uninteresting but quite ...)
no limit allow 1000 % more deck than 1/15
stop thinking lcg think how to play netrunner
why waiting for a reprint since all cards are on NRO go there print cards and play, just discover the game by yourself... you'll see we are right


Where do I go for that? I don't think I could find them there when I was surfing it last night, I know big error on my part but I was looking.

Also where do I send you my address?
Thu Dec 8, 2011 4:40 pm
Author: dyeyk2000
Goodness! Godspeed to you Mr. Schmidt. I'm telling you know, you already have my money if you are able to bring this back in a serviceable package. I think this is very hard to screw up. That being said, I think if you can get new art for this, that would be great.

1. Make all cards with alternative art
2. I'd pay 100USD for it, but it needs to be amazing. Otherwise, put it at 75USD.
3. BUY IT YES! (beginner). 1 copy only. I don't want this to be the kind of product where I need multiple copies.
4. Sorry probably buying it when released only since I live in Philippines and shipping from publisher is expensive.
Thu Dec 8, 2011 5:44 pm
Author: red black
Sometime in the future I'd love to read a 'publisher diary' blog entry about how you got this project off the ground.
Thu Dec 8, 2011 6:57 pm
Author: Darksbane
wormhole surfer wrote:
1 that's why it needs to be sold in 1 copie. or even number
2 i is exactly the same whatever the number of cards in a pack ...
3 that's why i talked about store opening the box and sell for single the cards ...


i don' know why people don't want to trust expert players of NR telling that 3 copies means nothing and restrict the game too far ( it is not uninteresting but quite ...)
no limit allow 1000 % more deck than 1/15
stop thinking lcg think how to play netrunner
why waiting for a reprint since all cards are on NRO go there print cards and play, just discover the game by yourself... you'll see we are right


It isn't that people don't trust you. But that doesn't change the fact that it is a hard sell for new players with those types of deckbuilding rules.

Since this is strictly a play format issue why not at least consider adding a new tournament type/play format? You can have your classic where you can have unlimited number of cards, sealed, draft, and a new restricted format of 3x each card. Still sell the base set with only 1 of each and then support both formats in official tournaments.
Thu Dec 8, 2011 7:11 pm
Author: dboeren
I'm not sure how to feel about how this is going...

The boardgamers (in which group I count myself) tend to keep saying that the game needs to fit the model that new players want to buy.

The Netrunner veterans tend to keep saying that changing it to a form people will find appealing to buy would ruin the game.

So are we agreed then that the project is doomed to be a total failure for everyone except veteran players who are just looking to round out their existing CCG collections and will toss the rest of the game?

The proxy solution will work from a mechanical point of view, but I still don't think players will take to it. If so, why not just write everything on some slips of normal paper and skip the re-release altogether?


I have taken to heart that sealed play is very good, as I have heard this said many times over many years by many different people. Perhaps we should deemphasize the open deck building and concentrate on precon? Offer sets of pre-constructed decks with a limited number of open card slots to use for customization where you can add/replace existing cards. This is very roughly similar to how Blue Moon works.

Then we would have a natural product to offer - a core set containing 4 Corp and 4 Runner preconstructed decks, plus some number of miscellaneous cards to use for customization. You can have your own copies, or draft them, or whatever you like. Offer an optional gameplay model of open deck building but with modified pre-con as the default for out of the box play. Call the open version "advanced" or whatever if it makes you feel better. Over time, you can release more preconstructed decks with new cards and themes, which give you more base decks to customize but also give open players a greater cardpool.

I think most players will want to do at least some customization if they like the game at all. Telling them they need to buy enough sets to get 20 of each card is unreasonable. Nor is expecting new players to know how many of each card they need, or follow arcane ways of getting the right number of each one if they aren't sold that way to begin with. Some sort of restricted format is necessary that allows people to feel like they have a full collection for a reasonable amount of money while still offering enough room to play with deck designs to keep the game interesting. Figuring out how to offer this is I believe the key to making the reprint successful to gamers at large and not just Netrunner veterans.
Thu Dec 8, 2011 7:37 pm
Author: darksurtur
dboeren wrote:
I'm not sure how to feel about how this is going...


I agree that a proxy solution is not a good idea. Aesthetically and mechanically, it goes against everything that we have learned from the last 15 years of board game design in order to appeal to a small contingent of existing players, many of whom already have all the cards they want.

In general, I understand why some players want to keep the "no limit" aspect. But to say that a 3x limit will make the game "uninteresting" seems to clash with the idea that it ALSO thrives in a sealed format.

Likewise, the idea that the game is perfect as it was published all those years ago seems self-contradictory, considering that that A) led to commercial failure, and B) CCGs themselves revolve around the notion of organically and regularly changing and evolving.
Thu Dec 8, 2011 8:14 pm
Author: waddball
darksurtur wrote:
Likewise, the idea that the game is perfect as it was published all those years ago seems self-contradictory, considering that that A) led to commercial failure, and B) CCGs themselves revolve around the notion of organically and regularly changing and evolving.

This I wholeheartedly agree with. I love NR. I would probably call it my favorite game (out of...I don't know...600ish games played/owned in my life). But I don't think it's perfect. There are some cards that are just too commonly used, some never used, some errata to incorporate, swaths of under-explored functions because expansions stopped. I'd love to see Garfield get the license sorted and partner with a good publisher and make this all happen in an LCG sort of model.

Also, I'm not entirely sold on "no limit". I like it, mostly because it's a unique (unprecedented?) idea. It also permeates the design, in that a few basic functions would have to be spread over many new cards if you put in a 3x restriction (one-shot bit gainers leap to mind, but there are a number of other ways in which the game as is wouldn't function well in constructed with a 3x limit). My response to that is: fine, add new cards, update old ones, and make it work. But I'm not getting the impression from the OP that structural changes, or even much in the way of new/updated cards, is in the works. So that colors my earlier recommendations.
Thu Dec 8, 2011 8:50 pm
Author: wormhole surfer
Darksbane wrote:
wormhole surfer wrote:
1 that's why it needs to be sold in 1 copie. or even number
2 i is exactly the same whatever the number of cards in a pack ...
3 that's why i talked about store opening the box and sell for single the cards ...


i don' know why people don't want to trust expert players of NR telling that 3 copies means nothing and restrict the game too far ( it is not uninteresting but quite ...)
no limit allow 1000 % more deck than 1/15
stop thinking lcg think how to play netrunner
why waiting for a reprint since all cards are on NRO go there print cards and play, just discover the game by yourself... you'll see we are right


It isn't that people don't trust you. But that doesn't change the fact that it is a hard sell for new players with those types of deckbuilding rules.

Since this is strictly a play format issue why not at least consider adding a new tournament type/play format? You can have your classic where you can have unlimited number of cards, sealed, draft, and a new restricted format of 3x each card. Still sell the base set with only 1 of each and then support both formats in official tournaments.


I have never told that both format won't be supported ...
and 3* copies already exists, a bit different .. it is called 1/15 ... you can add in your deck one copie of a cards for every 15 cards in your deck ...

Seeya

Ludo
Thu Dec 8, 2011 9:29 pm
Author: wormhole surfer
dboeren wrote:
I'm not sure how to feel about how this is going...

The boardgamers (in which group I count myself) tend to keep saying that the game needs to fit the model that new players want to buy.

The Netrunner veterans tend to keep saying that changing it to a form people will find appealing to buy would ruin the game.

So are we agreed then that the project is doomed to be a total failure for everyone except veteran players who are just looking to round out their existing CCG collections and will toss the rest of the game?

The proxy solution will work from a mechanical point of view, but I still don't think players will take to it. If so, why not just write everything on some slips of normal paper and skip the re-release altogether?


I have taken to heart that sealed play is very good, as I have heard this said many times over many years by many different people. Perhaps we should deemphasize the open deck building and concentrate on precon? Offer sets of pre-constructed decks with a limited number of open card slots to use for customization where you can add/replace existing cards. This is very roughly similar to how Blue Moon works.

Then we would have a natural product to offer - a core set containing 4 Corp and 4 Runner preconstructed decks, plus some number of miscellaneous cards to use for customization. You can have your own copies, or draft them, or whatever you like. Offer an optional gameplay model of open deck building but with modified pre-con as the default for out of the box play. Call the open version "advanced" or whatever if it makes you feel better. Over time, you can release more preconstructed decks with new cards and themes, which give you more base decks to customize but also give open players a greater cardpool.

I think most players will want to do at least some customization if they like the game at all. Telling them they need to buy enough sets to get 20 of each card is unreasonable. Nor is expecting new players to know how many of each card they need, or follow arcane ways of getting the right number of each one if they aren't sold that way to begin with. Some sort of restricted format is necessary that allows people to feel like they have a full collection for a reasonable amount of money while still offering enough room to play with deck designs to keep the game interesting. Figuring out how to offer this is I believe the key to making the reprint successful to gamers at large and not just Netrunner veterans.


just an aswer for the last part of your comments,
buying 20 copies of a 52 expansion packs is not more unreasonable than buying 3 copies of a 346 card set ... meaning that as i said NR doesn't as much cards as other card game to break the metagame and be flexible, sorry if you do'nt understand that , please try netrunner, we'd lovely teach you in any way if you visit netrunneronline.
Frizzler is our online "manager"
your sentence about a full collection for a reasonnable money is true ... i can't go against that ... if people want only buy 3 packs of 52... just go the game will still be over playable
Thu Dec 8, 2011 9:38 pm
Author: wormhole surfer
darksurtur wrote:
dboeren wrote:
I'm not sure how to feel about how this is going...


I agree that a proxy solution is not a good idea. Aesthetically and mechanically, it goes against everything that we have learned from the last 15 years of board game design in order to appeal to a small contingent of existing players, many of whom already have all the cards they want.

In general, I understand why some players want to keep the "no limit" aspect. But to say that a 3x limit will make the game "uninteresting" seems to clash with the idea that it ALSO thrives in a sealed format.

Likewise, the idea that the game is perfect as it was published all those years ago seems self-contradictory, considering that that A) led to commercial failure, and B) CCGs themselves revolve around the notion of organically and regularly changing and evolving.


1/15 format is just uninteresting comparing to no limit just because it doesn't allowed more archetype .. but everybody is free to buy how many packs they want .. every format has always and need to ( in my mind) stay officialzed.
Thu Dec 8, 2011 9:40 pm
Author: wormhole surfer
waddball wrote:
darksurtur wrote:
Likewise, the idea that the game is perfect as it was published all those years ago seems self-contradictory, considering that that A) led to commercial failure, and B) CCGs themselves revolve around the notion of organically and regularly changing and evolving.

This I wholeheartedly agree with. I love NR. I would probably call it my favorite game (out of...I don't know...600ish games played/owned in my life). But I don't think it's perfect. There are some cards that are just too commonly used, some never used, some errata to incorporate, swaths of under-explored functions because expansions stopped. I'd love to see Garfield get the license sorted and partner with a good publisher and make this all happen in an LCG sort of model.

Also, I'm not entirely sold on "no limit". I like it, mostly because it's a unique (unprecedented?) idea. It also permeates the design, in that a few basic functions would have to be spread over many new cards if you put in a 3x restriction (one-shot bit gainers leap to mind, but there are a number of other ways in which the game as is wouldn't function well in constructed with a 3x limit). My response to that is: fine, add new cards, update old ones, and make it work. But I'm not getting the impression from the OP that structural changes, or even much in the way of new/updated cards, is in the works. So that colors my earlier recommendations.


errata need to bve inclueded in the reprint yes, it is vital .

no limit format has also been use din vampire the eternal struggle.
Thu Dec 8, 2011 9:42 pm
Author: dboeren
wormhole surfer wrote:
please try netrunner, we'd lovely teach you in any way if you visit netrunneronline.
Frizzler is our online "manager"


I've played before a few times, and I have a box of cards downstairs that I'd be happy to use again if the game revives. I haven't played enough to be any sort of expert deckbuilder or highly skilled player, but I've seen the game. I'd need a refresher on the rules before playing again though.

I went to netrunneronline and followed the links to netrunner.phtn.de describing how to actually play online. I had hoped for a dedicated game client of some sort but that doesn't seem to exist.

MagicWorkstation costs money and I have no idea of the quality of experience it provides.

LackeyCCG I have tried in the past and I know it to be a very poor user interface. I never managed to learn how to use it in a meaningful fashion.

I haven't experience with GCCG but it appears roughly like Lackey, a generic engine with plug-ins for different games but not really designed to play any of them. Again - a learning curve and probably sub-par experience.

If Netrunner had a real client and a single server so the community was not divided in three and therefore 3x the number of players online it would be a great thing. These are sort of related. The reason it has three bad clients is because there is no good client. The existing ones would be dropped instantly if a single quality client and community appeared.

But online play is not the central point of the discussion here, it should probably go in another thread.

I think the main point is twofold (from the point of view of us players):
1. Is this reprint actually going to happen? It's been tried before, but not successfully. Talk is interesting but will it work this time? I don't know, that ball is mostly in your court.

2. If the reprint happens, what form will it take? What changes in packing, formats, rules, errata, etc... will happen to try to make the game successful? That's the main thing we're discussing here I think.


wormhole surfer wrote:
your sentence about a full collection for a reasonnable money is true ... i can't go against that ... if people want only buy 3 packs of 52... just go the game will still be over playable


Maybe I've been unclear. It's not that I (or anyone) just WANTS to buy 3 copies. It's not our choice. To have a good game, you are forced to buy enough copies to provide that good game. If the design is such that you need around 20 copies (as you've sort of been hinting), then that's how many you have to buy. Having less will only let you play a lesser quality game, as well as putting you at a disadvantage when playing against people who bought the "full game". There are diminishing returns to be sure, maybe 10 copies gets you 75% of the way there for 50% of the cost of 20, but gamers like to own the full game and competitive players will not be happy with 75%. The only way players can choose to buy less is if we make an agreement on game format within our local group that nobody will use more than 3 copies or whatever - in effect a house rule. When a game allows deckbuilding, someone else having more copies of cards or more types of cards (owning expansions you do not) is a competitive advantage. This is acceptable to CCG players who are accustomed to it, but generally not to boardgamers who expect everyone to be playing by the same rules so that there is a level field.

However, not everyone likes house rules. Once you are changing the rules of the game, people will disagree on what changes are best. Someone who bought more copies (maybe moved from another group) will demand to be able to use his advantage over everyone else because he "paid for it". Therefore I feel it is in the game's best interest to provide a standardized mode of play with card limits. Then you avoid the argument of whether it should be 3 copies or 4, etc... You just point to the rulebook and say you're playing that format.

I think what you're saying is that limited copies is in fact that lesser quality game I mentioned. Some of us are hoping that the game can be changed to avoid this, whether by packing extra copies of only the cards that NEED many copies and ALSO providing rules enforcing that only these cards can take extra copies, or by cloning some cards to get around the card limit, or by whatever means. We'd rather see a modified Netrunner succeed than an unchanged Netrunner fail and are willing to tweak things towards that goal.

I looked at your profile page and your game collection. It's clear that you're a CCG player and probably not a boardgamer. You know how CCG players think and what they're likely to want. I am not sure if you understand how boardgamers think and what they want out of a game, and I believe that they are the larger portion of your audience. We all want to see this reprint happen and be successful, if we didn't care we wouldn't be reading and posting on these threads.
Thu Dec 8, 2011 11:06 pm
Author: wormhole surfer
dboeren wrote:
wormhole surfer wrote:
please try netrunner, we'd lovely teach you in any way if you visit netrunneronline.
Frizzler is our online "manager"


I've played before a few times, and I have a box of cards downstairs that I'd be happy to use again if the game revives. I haven't played enough to be any sort of expert deckbuilder or highly skilled player, but I've seen the game. I'd need a refresher on the rules before playing again though.

I went to netrunneronline and followed the links to netrunner.phtn.de describing how to actually play online. I had hoped for a dedicated game client of some sort but that doesn't seem to exist.

MagicWorkstation costs money and I have no idea of the quality of experience it provides.

LackeyCCG I have tried in the past and I know it to be a very poor user interface. I never managed to learn how to use it in a meaningful fashion.

I haven't experience with GCCG but it appears roughly like Lackey, a generic engine with plug-ins for different games but not really designed to play any of them. Again - a learning curve and probably sub-par experience.

If Netrunner had a real client and a single server so the community was not divided in three and therefore 3x the number of players online it would be a great thing. These are sort of related. The reason it has three bad clients is because there is no good client. The existing ones would be dropped instantly if a single quality client and community appeared.

But online play is not the central point of the discussion here, it should probably go in another thread.

I think the main point is twofold (from the point of view of us players):
1. Is this reprint actually going to happen? It's been tried before, but not successfully. Talk is interesting but will it work this time? I don't know, that ball is mostly in your court.

2. If the reprint happens, what form will it take? What changes in packing, formats, rules, errata, etc... will happen to try to make the game successful? That's the main thing we're discussing here I think.


wormhole surfer wrote:
your sentence about a full collection for a reasonnable money is true ... i can't go against that ... if people want only buy 3 packs of 52... just go the game will still be over playable


Maybe I've been unclear. It's not that I (or anyone) just WANTS to buy 3 copies. It's not our choice. To have a good game, you are forced to buy enough copies to provide that good game. If the design is such that you need around 20 copies (as you've sort of been hinting), then that's how many you have to buy. Having less will only let you play a lesser quality game, as well as putting you at a disadvantage when playing against people who bought the "full game". There are diminishing returns to be sure, maybe 10 copies gets you 75% of the way there for 50% of the cost of 20, but gamers like to own the full game and competitive players will not be happy with 75%. The only way players can choose to buy less is if we make an agreement on game format within our local group that nobody will use more than 3 copies or whatever - in effect a house rule. When a game allows deckbuilding, someone else having more copies of cards or more types of cards (owning expansions you do not) is a competitive advantage. This is acceptable to CCG players who are accustomed to it, but generally not to boardgamers who expect everyone to be playing by the same rules so that there is a level field.

However, not everyone likes house rules. Once you are changing the rules of the game, people will disagree on what changes are best. Someone who bought more copies (maybe moved from another group) will demand to be able to use his advantage over everyone else because he "paid for it". Therefore I feel it is in the game's best interest to provide a standardized mode of play with card limits. Then you avoid the argument of whether it should be 3 copies or 4, etc... You just point to the rulebook and say you're playing that format.

I think what you're saying is that limited copies is in fact that lesser quality game I mentioned. Some of us are hoping that the game can be changed to avoid this, whether by packing extra copies of only the cards that NEED many copies and ALSO providing rules enforcing that only these cards can take extra copies, or by cloning some cards to get around the card limit, or by whatever means. We'd rather see a modified Netrunner succeed than an unchanged Netrunner fail and are willing to tweak things towards that goal.

I looked at your profile page and your game collection. It's clear that you're a CCG player and probably not a boardgamer. You know how CCG players think and what they're likely to want. I am not sure if you understand how boardgamers think and what they want out of a game, and I believe that they are the larger portion of your audience. We all want to see this reprint happen and be successful, if we didn't care we wouldn't be reading and posting on these threads.


Hi
1 i don't know if it is going to happen, but i have some people with me ... and most important pieces of the deal are here ... let's see .
2 if that reprint happen, don't know yet in which form, i wanted at the begining a full base set in one copy, i was right to ask about people for that, we can see that there is many different idea for that .

a players who have 20 copies can play with a players who have only 3 or less he just has to take matching decks . As you see, in my collection of NR, i can play every deck of the game, but i play most in sealed and when i play constructed we set up event in a decent time before and can build decks to be as powerful than my future oponent ... who can more can less ...
every format exists, and still exist whatever the form the reprint takes.
it is sur that a " 3 copie" player won't buy 20 copie and it is sure too that a "1 copie player" won't buy 3 ...that's why i keep to think that selling cards in 1 copy is the best.
but don't make me say what i don't, i also want a good game right out the box, with preconstructed decks, ...
what i try to make you understand since the begining is that the game has to be playable right out the box but it shouldn't cost more than any kind of player will spend, the only solution is to release cards in 1 copy.
it only change the number of packs that we will have to buy ...
buying 3 packs of 20 unique cards will be the same than buying one packs of 20 cards in 3 copy ... right no ?
if people want more they buy more, knowing that we can play mostly in 3 format, plus very interesting variant ( big sell out, "standard" form a player here, ...

if the release is designed about what i had in mind the extra packs would be .. an extra bix box ... but let me some times to think of an other solution ...
in a quick view i'd say a double precontructed decks containing basic vital cards, compelting by the time with some expansion packs containing cards to change the basic archetype of the "new starter deck".

you've lost, i'mainly a boardgame player than a ccg one, i dislike most ccg/LCG, the only i play today are NR, vampire, Mythos, LOTR lcg and the spoils. but i have a uge collection of 2 player decks of most ccg that existed , it helps me to anylize deeply difference between them and it helps me to design games.
in addition to that i have around 70 board games, in fact you'll notice that NR are mostly appreciated by Boardgame players than CCG one, and once again , because it is a so special non conventional CCG/Lcg game.
Thu Dec 8, 2011 11:26 pm
Author: dboeren
wormhole surfer wrote:
you've lost, i'mainly a boardgame player than a ccg one, i dislike most ccg/LCG, the only i play today are NR, vampire, Mythos, LOTR lcg and the spoils.


I only have your profile to look at, which lists only four games. You rate Magic, Netrunner, and The Spoils (all CCGs) as 10's, and the only boardgame on your list is Heroscape which you rate a 1. So of course that was the obvious conclusion
Fri Dec 9, 2011 1:47 am
Author: wormhole surfer
dboeren wrote:
wormhole surfer wrote:
you've lost, i'mainly a boardgame player than a ccg one, i dislike most ccg/LCG, the only i play today are NR, vampire, Mythos, LOTR lcg and the spoils.


I only have your profile to look at, which lists only four games. You rate Magic, Netrunner, and The Spoils (all CCGs) as 10's, and the only boardgame on your list is Heroscape which you rate a 1. So of course that was the obvious conclusion


Me ? Rating Magic at 10? !! Euh no i strongly dislike Magic background and mecanics

Fri Dec 9, 2011 8:21 am
Author: Redamikanas
Potential new player here. Been waiting to try this game for some time now.

First your 4 questions:
1. No foils. Icon to depict the set.
2. 75$ (hard to tell, depends on the content).
3. Yes, at least one box (if you don't manage to make an absolutely unattractive box for me), more depending on the final format.
4. Yes, I can pre-order.

Now a few personal opinions:
If this is supposed to be a reboot of the franchise, I'd say make a clean break and design the box as if there were no already existing cards. Netrunner 2.0, the reboot.

New layout, maybe new art, adjust card effects/costs where needed to balance the card.
Add some tokens to represent bits and different card states.
A player-mat is in my opinion not needed. Maybe at a later stage.
Personal pet peeve of mine: change the colour of the Corporation to blue/dark-blue. Looks more business-like (yeah, yeah, I know: blasphemy ).

As for the unlimited format, I have to say that it sounds interesting, but it turns this game again into a money pit like a normal CCG, which again scares away potential players.
It also creates an unbalanced environment where those who are able (and willing) to buy more boxes have an advantage over those who don't. I thought the game is about player skill, not about the amount of money one spends.
I suppose that so far the unlimited format has been the "official" tournament format (for example during the world championships)?

I can see the argument that the unlimited format has more potential deck-types which leads to more variety.
The question I'm asking myself is, if it would be possible to impose a limit that still gives you enough deck-building flexibility, like max. 9-12 copies?

As for the idea to reprint the base set:
Don't try to reprint all the cards at once. That will probably not be possible from a financial point of view.
Split it in two or three, maybe even leave some cards out all together.
The less cards there are at the beginning, the easier it is for new players to learn the game.

As for the number of copies included in the box, I'd go with either 1 (probably not so good if you want to include viable pre-fixed decks) or 3 (this will allow new players to immediately construct 1/15 decks).
Having to buy only one box to get 3 copies of each card, instead of buying 3 boxes with 1 copie of each card, has, as far as I can tell, a better marketing potential.
("You only need to buy one box and can build decks right away." vs. "You need to buy 1 or 2 more boxes to build new decks.")

One last suggestion:
Once you've gathered the different potential options for the box, it might be more effective to create some sort of poll to see which options the players would prefer (and make sure to add the colour question ).
Fri Dec 9, 2011 11:11 am
Author: wormhole surfer
Redamikanas wrote:
Potential new player here. Been waiting to try this game for some time now.

First your 4 questions:
1. No foils. Icon to depict the set.
2. 75$ (hard to tell, depends on the content).
3. Yes, at least one box (if you don't manage to make an absolutely unattractive box for me), more depending on the final format.
4. Yes, I can pre-order.

Now a few personal opinions:
If this is supposed to be a reboot of the franchise, I'd say make a clean break and design the box as if there were no already existing cards. Netrunner 2.0, the reboot.

New layout, maybe new art, adjust card effects/costs where needed to balance the card.
Add some tokens to represent bits and different card states.
A player-mat is in my opinion not needed. Maybe at a later stage.
Personal pet peeve of mine: change the colour of the Corporation to blue/dark-blue. Looks more business-like (yeah, yeah, I know: blasphemy ).

As for the unlimited format, I have to say that it sounds interesting, but it turns this game again into a money pit like a normal CCG, which again scares away potential players.
It also creates an unbalanced environment where those who are able (and willing) to buy more boxes have an advantage over those who don't. I thought the game is about player skill, not about the amount of money one spends.
I suppose that so far the unlimited format has been the "official" tournament format (for example during the world championships)?

I can see the argument that the unlimited format has more potential deck-types which leads to more variety.
The question I'm asking myself is, if it would be possible to impose a limit that still gives you enough deck-building flexibility, like max. 9-12 copies?

As for the idea to reprint the base set:
Don't try to reprint all the cards at once. That will probably not be possible from a financial point of view.
Split it in two or three, maybe even leave some cards out all together.
The less cards there are at the beginning, the easier it is for new players to learn the game.

As for the number of copies included in the box, I'd go with either 1 (probably not so good if you want to include viable pre-fixed decks) or 3 (this will allow new players to immediately construct 1/15 decks).
Having to buy only one box to get 3 copies of each card, instead of buying 3 boxes with 1 copie of each card, has, as far as I can tell, a better marketing potential.
("You only need to buy one box and can build decks right away." vs. "You need to buy 1 or 2 more boxes to build new decks.")

One last suggestion:
Once you've gathered the different potential options for the box, it might be more effective to create some sort of poll to see which options the players would prefer (and make sure to add the colour question ).


As always, ...
about disadvantage about Nolimit and 1/15 it is a false thing, it is not the same environment, the same format ... No limit Players can't play against 1/15 one !but who can more can the less ...

in fact few cards are needed above 12 ... some of them 18 copies or 20 but it represents i don't really know about 30 cards on 580 ...

i think there is no poll needed because the true facts i noticed are that :

we can't spend a lot of money in buying the box
we can't force people wanted only one copy of cards to buy 3 and we can't force people who only want 3 to buy 12 or 20 ... the only way to do that is to sell cards in 1 copy ...

but all comments here make me realized that the best things would be to divided the entire Netrunner as into many very small expansion ( please see my post in the other thread where i bagan to suggest a preconstructed deck and way to improve it)
THE thing i can understand is gathering all cards in a box with only 1 copy of a card will penalize players who only want for exemple 10% of this box in several copie .The thing to avoid that is just to divide the set into very small parts, in that way maybe some parts will be useless for some and usefull for others and since this packs wil contains very few cards even if a players buy it for 2 or 3 cards inside ( on maybe a total of 10 or 15 cards ) he want be as much penalized as buying 500 cards just for 10 usable ...
Fri Dec 9, 2011 12:04 pm
Author: Daleth
Quote:
1 create a little icons on cards showing that is a "memorial" set and/or
make all the cards ( or the old rares one) FOILS and/or
make all the cards or some of them ( rares? ) with some alternative art

or maybe a good mix of this .. what do you think ? could it be attractive ? if the production cost are expansive for a such thing will you buy it even if the cards are exactly the same ? ( i need to have beginner and expert advise ...)

2what could be the ideal price for a such box ?
i though about 40 to 100 $ i know it is a huge gap but production costs will be balanced with all the things i suggests upper and also with quantity printed .

3 will you buy it ? ( expert and / or beginner)

4 will you buy it only when released or are you able to support NR and help us to preorder the box before the released ?


I have played Netrunner lots, and am a frustrated gamer, as i wish i had the whole set to play with. your idea would solve my problem.

1)new icon would make sense. foils/alternate art are cool. I don't agree that the trading of rare/foils is bad for a game. however, rarity is bad for those who want to play with every card and experience all the game has to offer. I get the impression that the concensus on BGG is that people would always rather have a 'set' of cards, complete in it's own right. however i am from a ccg background, and find that LCG's try to balance every card, and therefore a card that would have been a staple 'common' card in a ccg becomes unnecessary in an lcg. this may be to the detriment of the netrunner sets.

2) i couldn't afford more than £60. but if you could split it up into different, smaller boxes at £30-£40 i would probably buy 3 over the course of a year.

3)i would buy it (die hard fan).

4) if you Kickstarter it i will pledge money.

Fri Dec 9, 2011 8:10 pm
Author: Toyama
I've still got my cards from the '90s. Got most of the cards, some rares are missing. What I'd like:

- reprint is okay, as long as there are a few new cards added to the lot. The more, the better.
- new art only for new cards.
- NO FOILS!
- additional icons are ok
- Do not change the background or backside of the cards.
- moderate pricing.

I'd preorder a first set, just to see how it's looking. Me buying into more sets will largely depend on the fraction of new cards.
Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:25 pm
Author: UhhhClem
Well, I don't know enough about Netrunner as it's played today to know how viable this approach is, but this is how I'd try to republish it:

First, settle on some number of decks that play well against each other - four or five per side. Playtest each possible pair of decks to make sure that the games are fun.

Next, create a pool of cards that contain enough of the right cards that you can construct each of the decks. If you want to get really crazy, you can use a tiny bit of real estate on the face of each card to indicate which deck(s) it belongs to, e.g. something like the expansion symbol that Race for the Galaxy cards use. That'd be nice for not alienating collectors, assuming that there actually are collectors you don't want to alienate.

Publish the boxed set so that it contains this pool of cards, the rules, the deck lists, glass beads for bits, and any additional cards you can afford to throw in.

New players get the experience of playing with good, tuned decks, they don't have to figure out how to build decks before they play, and if the pool of cards is enough to make five different good decks it can also probably make more. You don't need to worry about supplying enough cards to make all kinds of decks possible - 25 possible corp/runner matchups is more than enough fun for one reasonably-priced box.

I'd buy this in a heartbeat.
Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:55 pm
Author: Aubigny
Toyama wrote:
- Do not change the background or backside of the cards.

Everything is fine if WotC is doing the new edition. But I'm wondering what will happen if another company is reprinting it. Will WotC allow the use of the Deckmaster trademark on the card backs? They still use it for Magic and I could imagine that they don't want another product (not by them) to use it.
Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:48 pm
Author: studenteternal
This would be amazing, I only ever played with a partial hand me down set and would love to be able to get an actual set!

I agree with Tilou below:

1. Little icon. No foils. Same art would be great. The box could include some special dice and/or tokens and/or a cardboard to keep track of the credits/viruses...
2. 50-60 $.
3. Yes! Quantity depends on the price. I'd first go with one box probably.
4. I would preorder the box before release.
Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:13 pm
Author: Willi B
As this is so hypothetical, I doubt it happens. However, I would like to see alternate art to what WOTC made. As I already own some cards, I'd like something new and fresh.
Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:15 am
Author: salmacis
I was a very heavy player back in the 90s, so I'm extremely excited by the possibility of a reprint. I have a lot of cards, and at the time was pretty good at the game.

That said, I have my concerns as to how you're going about this. It appears that you're trying to revive NR as it was. Well that game failed for a variety of reasons. If you want this to succeed then it has to be a new game which takes into account the mistakes of the original.

You're thinking too much like a CCG player. This product has to appeal to boardgamers. I can't rely on any of my gaming group also having bought this product in order to play it. We can't open a box and be confronted with 400 cards. That means pre-constructed decks, with some ability to change, but not completely gut them.

I disagree entirely about your assertion that unlimited number of cards in a deck is important to deckbuilding. Constructed NR was degenerate, and the lack of a card limit was part of that. Does it really use great imagination to include 10 copies of Bodyweight Synthetic Blood? I think not. If you read Mark Rosewater's column on the Wizards' site, he is quite clear that limiting options leads to a better experience, not a worse one. I would *strongly* urge a limit of 3 in a deck, and I think any stand-alone product should therefore include 3 cards of each. I expect to get 10 action cards or 12 victory point cards in a Dominion expansion!

There are some cards which do benefit from having more than 3 in a deck. So (for that *very* limited subset) print new cards which have a similar effect. This also gives an incentive for the likes of me to buy this product, instread of just re-using my old cards.

Forget about trying to reprint the entire set, at least with this first run. Concentrate on a fun out-of-the-box experience. Other cards can be added with later expansions. Coupled to this, one thing that really hurt NR was the fact that it was not a multiplayer game. I'd be far more likely to get this out at my boardgaming night if it worked as a 4-player game as well a 2-player game. I don't know if this is possible, but it should be investigated.

There were mistakes in the original card set. Some cards were ludicrously overpowered. Some were underpowered. You have the chance to fix that. Some cards should never be reprinted. Others should be printed in a different form with a new name. The designers of NR had no idea how to balance the game properly at the time, otherwise "Psycho Tycho" would never have existed. We now have the benefit of experience. It's no different from Magic, where cards like the Moxes and Black Lotus will never again be printed.

I wish you luck in this endeavour. The most important thing is that is has to work as a stand-alone game, without blindly following the original rules and cards.
Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:09 pm
Author: KenToad
I'm a casual follower of this thread and I have to say that I agree completely with Huw Morris.

Hopefully to add a bit to that, I love Garfield's designs, but Netrunner is too opaque for a novice to come into the field and just construct a decent, playable deck. I know this because I have tried to learn this game from the rules and it's daunting. Also, you have to learn two different sets of rules, one for each side. There is crossover, but understanding what your opponent is doing is still a hurdle, especially if you are learning alone, just by reading the rules.

You're already competing with the huge advantages in money and market share that Magic has. My experience is that it's incredibly difficult to get Magic players to play any other 2 player card game, especially if it's one that requires investment in time, which is already deeply sunk in Magic. And board gamers prefer games with more players. I already have half a dozen magnificent 2 player games that don't get played, simply because no one wants to just pair up for 2 player games when they could get 4 or more players together for a larger game.

I believe a big part of the reason behind Netrunner's lack of financial success was the large barrier to just getting started. Sure, you could buy starter decks, but learning the rules cold was a bear.

If you're looking to expand the player base, you're going to want to impose limits on the number of cards players are required to buy and provide fun, competitive decklists that you can build from the cards in the box. I would suggest going a step further and including a rigged demo consisting of a small number of cards per player and instructions for the drawing and playing those cards, with an aim to make a step-by-step tutorial for playing the game.

Take all this with a grain of salt, as I'm no expert with the game, just a potential player who researched the game and did not find the game worth the hassle of learning, teaching and convincing people to play.

I hope this all works out for the best.
Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:35 pm
Author: Grift
+1 to Robert Rossney and Huw Morris.



Can't put it any better than that really. Bulk printing everything at once, while great for old-skool CCG'ers looking to complete collections, isn't a great option for new players.

Also, all new CCGs come with a few design bloopers in their first set. Take the opportunity to iron those out now, don't just perpetuate them for the sake of tradition.
Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:08 pm
Author: bigmac33070
Quote:
1 create a little icons on cards showing that is a "memorial" set and/or
make all the cards ( or the old rares one) FOILS and/or
make all the cards or some of them ( rares? ) with some alternative art

or maybe a good mix of this .. what do you think ? could it be attractive ? if the production cost are expansive for a such thing will you buy it even if the cards are exactly the same ? ( i need to have beginner and expert advise ...)

2what could be the ideal price for a such box ?
i though about 40 to 100 $ i know it is a huge gap but production costs will be balanced with all the things i suggests upper and also with quantity printed .

3 will you buy it ? ( expert and / or beginner)

4 will you buy it only when released or are you able to support NR and help us to preorder the box before the released ?



In response to your original questions on NR online:

1. No foils necessary. Original artwork please.
2. I would have no problem with $100 depending on the quantity of card offered.
3. I would buy this in a heartbeat.
4. I would support and/or preorder if needed.
Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:26 pm
Author: shoptroll
Grift wrote:
+1 to Robert Rossney and Huw Morris.



Can't put it any better than that really. Bulk printing everything at once, while great for old-skool CCG'ers looking to complete collections, isn't a great option for new players.

Also, all new CCGs come with a few design bloopers in their first set. Take the opportunity to iron those out now, don't just perpetuate them for the sake of tradition.


As an older player with intermediate level of experience (collector during the original print run but only started seriously playing a couple years ago during Runner's Net's heyday) I think a switch to the LCG format is going to be the best route if there's any hope for the game to still be in print for more than a year. As such the game is going to need to be re-balanced and that's a fine reason to have Richard Garfield and a QA team pick through the game and make tweaks.

The rules will need to be clarified and cleaned up in order to attract new players and, more importantly, retain them. We cannot adhere to the "old ways" and "traditions" for this. If everything was perfectly fine with the old game, this thread wouldn't exist. Plain and simple.

We won't have Netrunner back ever, but what we can have is a Netrunner 2.0 which repurposes the old game for a new generation of players, and hopefully gets some wider exposure for one of Dr. Garfield's best board game designs (yes, he considered this a board game not a CCG).

To be honest, while I appreciate all the cheerleading done by Wormhole a lot of the real decisions about the release are going to be made by the designer and the eventual publisher if this ever gets approved.

EDIT: BTW Wormhole, I left further feedback on NRO.
Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:49 pm
Author: FlyingArrow
I'm trying to think of what would get me to buy this game and what would prevent me from buying this game. I should be a prime target as a potential customer... I like the play format, the theme, but I've never tried it.

Price point would be a big factor for me. So no new art and no foils. Keep the price down - under $50 for the starter set. The price should be comparable to a boardgame. I loved the suggestion of multiple pre-built decks for each side. 5 per side would be great. 3 per side would suffice if the cost is too high. An even better idea - multiple deck "cores", where the core is about a half-deck's worth of related cards, and then a play format where you do a Campaign Manager 2008-style "draft" to complete the deck from a common pool of cards. The common pool could allow more "decks" in the starter and also introduce a bit of deckbuilding to the game, even if using pre-built starters.

The LCG format is better than a CCG in terms of the cost, but it's still costly if the releases are constant. I've watched, but the releases tend to come out more often than I'd want to buy them. I know I'm probably in the minority, but I'd prefer a slower release schedule. A Race for the Galxay model (once per year) rather than the standard LCG format (multiple per year).

I know some people don't like conference "exclusives", but I don't mind them so much. As a semi-completionist I simply ignore promos. But promos could be a way to bring in all the rest of the original cards. Anyway, that's enough of my rambling.
Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:18 pm
Author: doormat
I currently play the LCGs (AGoT, CoC, LotR) and have been interested in NR for awhile. Like the idea either of the complete set or of multiple starter decks. Single copies fine if that is the way the game plays well (have had fun with highlander CoC).

1. Icon. No foils.
2. $40-60
3. One to start.
4. Unlikely.
Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:17 am
Author: Talarius
I have a small Netrunner collection, have only played it a few times, but always enjoyed it and wanted to play more.

Foils would drive up the cost, so not interested in those, as this is a limited print run. Original artwork, if available. $40-60 seems reasonable for something like this. I would certainly buy a copy, no doubt about it and would put in a pre-order if all the legalities were resolved beforehand.

As MECCG is one of my top 3 games of all time, I will be rooting for you to succeed in this endeavor. Good luck and thanks for your efforts!
Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:36 am
Author: vergentgames
I will buy it and love it! Yes I will pre-order!
An added icon would be ok, but no foils.
Fixed set releases would also be a good idea.
I think $50-$60 would be a good price range.

I still have my thousands of Netrunner cards, several decks still assembled and I still have some sealed product! Several sealed starters and a few sealed Proteus packs!

Anyone running a Netrunner tournament?
I'll contribute some sealed product as prizes!
Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:59 pm
Author: scout13
seriously a return of netrunner!! that would be awesome!

I used to have the shirt that came out with it, I might be able to get it back from a friend ...

I'd be in buying a couple sets, no foils, original art (basically as close to the original as possible)

thanks
Thu Jan 5, 2012 2:18 am
Author: Footoomba
1. Icon fine, foils irrelevant, different artwork for some of the 1st edition cards however would be ok.
2. Up to $100 but I would expect a suitcase full of high quality cards for that.
3. Assuming I was paying upto $100 I'd expect not to need more than 1 set other than expansions.
4. Absolutley.
Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:44 pm
Author: labellerouge
1. Icon. No foils please.
2. $40-80
3. Of course!
4. Yes I'll preorder if it helps.
Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:24 pm
Author: phoenfyre
I would be very interested as well.

1. The icon I am indifferent about, but no foils.
2. Under 60 would be great.
3. Depends on the price point and the number of cards in each box. Certainly one, possibly two if the price was reasonable.
4. I would be very interested in preordering.

Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:56 pm
Author: fabianfritzer
Hi,

first of all, the next four steps towards a Netrunner reprint are:

1) Somebody find out whether the old, original printing sheets still exist. Are they still functional? Where are they located? Especially, who has the original image files which were used for the printing run?
2) Is there any US resident who is willing to put this up on Kickstarter?
3) I am confident that we successfully collect 100.000 $ for a reprint on Kickstarter. But for creating a business plan, we must know how much license fee WotC/Hasbro and Talsorian will charge?
4) Also, what would be the cost for printing, cutting and packaging 10.000 boxes of 200 cards each?

As long as these questions are unanswered, this whole discussion is nothing but hot air.


Anyway, my replies to Ludo's original questions:
1) The reprint cards should contain an icon indicating their original rarity. By this icon, they could also be distinguished from the old cards.
No foils.
Alternative art: Depends on the answer to my question number 1 above.
2) I think 30 $ for a box containing 200 cards or 40 $ for a box containing 300 cards is reasonable, not more.
3) Yes, I will buy one copy. I would buy even more copies if my proposals concerning the box content are followed. You find my proposals here:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/733568/best-content-for-...
4) I will buy it once released; but I would preorder the box if it is done through Kickstarter.

Cu, Fabian
Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:35 pm
Author: Meepleplex

As a Netrunner player from way back, I have a few comments. Some of these may already have been made but I'll repeat them here as they answer your questions and they underpin the suggestions I want to make.

1. No foils - if you want attract new players then show them that you are treating the game seriously by avoiding marketing gimmicks. A symbol on the cards to indicate they are a reprint is highly desirable as it avoids complaints from the collectors' market that you are damaging prices (and it would help with sorting if players combine old and new cards in constructed decks). You don't need rarity symbols as this version won't be a CCG.

2. Given the number of US and non-US posts in this thread, do not use Kickstarter or Babeldoor unless you can address the postage costs issue - Kickstarter costs to Europe have been a deal breaker for all the projects that I have wanted to sponsor in the past.

3. In this instance I suspect that a significant part of the price of the box will be underpinned by the licensing costs and the creation of new printing plates. I would like to see a price around the £40/Eur45 mark, and at or below that price I would pre-order. In truth I could probably create any box you develop out of the cards I have already, but a new print run means NR becomes available to new players and I want to encourage that.

4. Keep the old art but don't just reprint the old set in full. A box with one of each card won't work as some of the cards were intended to work only with multiple copies. Even though Highlander is a good NR format, certain cards tend to be first or early picks for any deck you are building. New players aren't likely to want to invest in two boxes from the outset, so think what happens when two players use cards from one box: when the change from Corp to Runner takes place the old decks will probably have to be disassembled to retrieve cards to build the new ones. Personally I would see this as a bit of a pain as it interrupts the game flow.

With all this in mind I would suggest that you aim for a Dominion-size 300 to 350-card box with two (or possibly three as suggested by salmacis) each of some of the Vitals and other draft early picks like Accounts Receivable. Before things get too advanced, open up a discussion about card selection with the NR community. Put a starter selection on a BGG Geeklist so that people can discuss the merits of individual cards, and nominate ones they would like included (it might turn into a long list, but it could also be used as the basis for selecting cards for inclusion in subsequent expansions). If people really have a big issue with cards like Tycho they can suggest that they are left out, or that only one copy is included (personally I think an early Tycho behind one piece of Ice cuts both ways, particularly if Inside Job is out there devil and Highlander limits the number of fast advancement cards you can put in the deck to score Agenda out of hand). Make sure your final card list provides scope for a number of balanced pre-constructed decks.

Good luck with the project, and I hope you can extract a good deal from Wiazrds/Hasbro/Talasorian. I've subscribed to this thread so please keep posting updates here.

Edit to remove comment about tabs as it didn't make sense.




Fri Feb 3, 2012 3:39 pm
Author: fabianfritzer
Meepleplex wrote:

2. Given the number of US and non-US posts in this thread, do not use Kickstarter or Babeldoor unless you can address the postage costs issue - Kickstarter costs to Europe have been a deal breaker for all the projects that I have wanted to sponsor in the past.


Hi,

if we don't use Kickstarter, how should a Netrunner reprint be funded?
I don't believe Wizards/Hasbro/RTalsorian will pay for it and I don't think a single person will invest a sum which is sufficient to make WotC move.

In order to keep the shipping costs lower, we could first ship all the boxes ordered from Germany/France in one big package from the US to me/Wormhole Surfer, then we ship them further to the individual pledgers.
Let's calculate this, assuming 1000 players from Germany order one box each through kickstarter:
- assume 1000 Euro for shipping all of them from US to me (1 Euro per box)
- assume 90 euro cent for packaging each
- 4,10 Euro for shipping each box (this is currently the price for a "Päckchen" inside Germany)
- 1 Euro per box for my efforts
==> Yields 7 Euro shipping costs per box. That is not too much.

However, you are right about the license fees that WotC/Hasbro/RTalsorian will charge and the high costs for new printed sheets. This will probably be the show stopper.

SeeYa, Frizzler

P.S.: Look at this: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1325766284/d-day-dice-bo...
170.000 Dollars...
Sun Feb 5, 2012 9:48 pm
Author: Meepleplex
fabianfritzer wrote:

if we don't use Kickstarter, how should a Netrunner reprint be funded?


Hi Fabian, did I play against you in a runners.net tournament some time back?

I'm not saying don't use Kickstarter, the point I wanted to make was that people this side of the Atlantic are likely to be put off by the mailing premium that is imposed upon them. The solution you propose - shipping in bulk and onward posting - would work, and I would definitely buy in on that basis. In fact it may be simpler than that: I may be mistaken but I think I heard somewhere that the original NR cards were printed in Europe by a Dutch firm. If a license can be obtained, and the firm still has the art files and print specifications, it might make sense to use them again.

Sun Feb 5, 2012 10:18 pm
Author: Jess_the_gamer
1) The icon is ok as far as I'm concerned.
Not very fond of alternative art but ... as you see fit
2) Between $40 and $50 would be fine, but I could deal with paying a bit more.
3) I will buy one copy.
4) I would preorder.
Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:14 am
Author: fabianfritzer
Meepleplex wrote:

Hi Fabian, did I play against you in a runners.net tournament some time back?


Probably yes, what is your nick name on runners-net? I am still playing online from time to time btw.

So we already found a solution for the shipping problem.

I just looked on the bottom of a starter display: "Printed in Canada, packaged in USA". So the cards were not printed in the Netherlands.

Anyway, maybe I should really take the time and write a letter to WotC, asking them whether they are interested in a Netrunner reprint funded through kickstarter and how much money would be needed.

SeeYa, Fabian
Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:16 pm
Author: Meepleplex
fabianfritzer wrote:

Probably yes, what is your nick name on runners-net? I am still playing online from time to time btw.

....

Anyway, maybe I should really take the time and write a letter to WotC, asking them whether they are interested in a Netrunner reprint funded through kickstarter and how much money would be needed.



My nickname was Googol when I played - I don't have much time at the moment but I may go back in the future.

The problem with Wizards/Hasbro may be their "we are a big company, this is a small blip on the radar that isn't worth the effort" attitude - let's hope not though.

Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:04 pm
Author: fabianfritzer
Hi,

@Googol: I just checked my "games-played-file" and you are not in it. Although I well remember your name from runners-net, it seems we missed each other in the tournaments. Maybe one day we will get to play with each other.

As announced, here is my letter to Wizards / Hasbro. Before I send it, any feedback is appreciated.

"
Dear ladies and gentleman (or how do you start a business letter?),

I am a fan of your trading card game Netrunner and as many other fans of the game, I would love to see a reprint.
A discussion about a hypothetic Netrunner reprint was recently held on boardgamegeek and our idea is to put a Netrunner reprint up as a project on www.kickstarter.com.
Many other games have successfully collected several ten thousands of dollars through this funding platform in the past.

A Netrunner reprint funded through Kickstarter has several advantages for you:
1) You don't have any financial risk, the money is collected before you spend it for printing the cards. If not enough money gets raised through kickstarter, nothing happens.
2) You don't need a place for storing the cards. They can be sent directly to the buyers.
3) You don't need to spend any money for advertisement. Kickstarter and the Netrunner community will find the customers for you.

So I have several questions to you:
1) Under which conditions would you allow me and some other Netrunner fans to organize a kickstarter project for a Netrunner reprint?
2) What is the minimum amount of money that we have to offer you to make you print and package e.g. 10.000 boxes with 200 cards each? The sum must cover all license fees.
3) Before a reprint, some cards should become corrected (e.g. the errata and some cards that got banned). Do the image files still exist that were used for the original printing run?
4) May I publish your reply?

I am writing this in a real letter on paper to show that I am serious. But you may of course reply to me by e-mail:
##

Yours sincerely, (or how do you end a business letter?)
##
"
Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:19 pm
Author: avyssaleos
Hi,

so far I hadn't replied in this thread but I was following it with interest since I happen to like Netrunner very much (even though it's been a very long time since I last played it)

When you first started the thread and you asked for feedback from the community I was under the impression (as I am sure many others) that some initial discussions had been done (presumably with Wizads of the Coast) and that you had found a way to have the game reprinted (maybe you had arranged to get the rights or something like that) and were asking questions about how it would be best to proceed.

Your letter above however, indicates that none of these has happened. Correct me if I am wrong but - to me at least - it seems that you just had the idea that via kickstarter the game could be reprinted and rushed to announce it to the community, without having contacted the rights holders first.

Although your letter seems well written, I am almost a 100% sure that if Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro were to ever think about a Netrunner reprint they would never use kickstarter. They are one of the biggest game companies οn this planet and they can't afford to print out a few copies of a game? The cost for a reprint the way you initially proposed (say 1000 or 2000 boxes with 200-300 cards each) would only cost some tens of thousands of dollars. (I would say 50.000 max) That's nothing for them. But even thinking about going to kickstarter to raise money for it, would cause serious damage to the company and to its shareholders. If it were some small independent company I could see them using kickstarter as a means to raise the money, but Hasbro? Seriously?

But let's say they decide to go on with a reprint, one way or another. What makes you think they would handle the whole thing to some random guy in germany and have him organize it? No matter how good your intentions are, something like that just doesn't happen. They would handle the whole thing themselves and they would run it on their own any way the would see fit.

Sorry if I am letting you down but it just seems like the whole thing was just a combination of fanboy-ism and wishful thinking. I hope that I am wrong and if I am I will take it back and back you all the way. However this is what your letter shows to me.

In my opinion, if you really want to follow this through, you should contact Wizards of the Coast and send them a letter/email stating that you are interested in acquiring the rights of the game in order to reprint it. Don't mention anything about kickstarter or having yourself organizing it on their behalf. Just ask if they are willing to give the rights and the cost for that.

Depending on their answer you take it from there, and only after you have closed the deal or are very close to it, do you inform the community. Then you will be the one running it, raising the money and arranging the reprint's details.

I'd love to see this game once again on the shelves. It is one of the best that came out and it really deserves it. However, I don't see this moving forward the way you are describing it and I feel like I have been led to believe that there was a chance there, when there was none.

Hope you prove me wrong.
Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:24 pm
Author: Meepleplex

Fabian, I have Geekmailed a reply about your letter with some thoughts about the content. If you want to open it up to community discussion please feel free to C&P into a post.

Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:27 pm
Author: tilouboy
avyssaleos wrote:

When you first started the thread and you asked for feedback from the community I was under the impression (as I am sure many others) that some initial discussions had been done (presumably with Wizads of the Coast) and that you had found a way to have the game reprinted (maybe you had arranged to get the rights or something like that) and were asking questions about how it would be best to proceed.

Your letter above however, indicates that none of these has happened.


Those are two different persons. wormhole surfer started the thread. fabianfritzer is now taking it in a different direction.
Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:32 pm
Author: Meepleplex
avyssaleos wrote:
Hi,

I am almost a 100% sure that if Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro were to ever think about a Netrunner reprint they would never use kickstarter. They are one of the biggest game companies οn this planet and they can't afford to print out a few copies of a game? The cost for a reprint the way you initially proposed (say 1000 or 2000 boxes with 200-300 cards each) would only cost some tens of thousands of dollars. (I would say 50.000 max) That's nothing for them. But even thinking about going to kickstarter to raise money for it, would cause serious damage to the company and to its shareholders.


Sneaker, you make some valid points in your post, but the section I have quoted above is very much the critical issue. Of course Wizards/Hasbro wouldn't go to Kickstarter, they would finance it themselves. The fact is, however, that they haven't reprinted, suggesting that either they are no longer interested in marketing the product or they see it as too small a blip on their corporate radar to be worth the effort. Either way, an approach by a third party who might use Kickstarter isn't going to carry any reputational risks for their company.

Whatever our personal feelings about the likely outcome, I am sure we are all agreed that Fabian is at least doing the right thing by asking.


Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:46 pm
Author: avyssaleos
tilouboy wrote:
Those are two different persons. wormhole surfer started the thread. fabianfritzer is now taking it in a different direction.

True. I stand corrected.

However, I think the points I make in regards to the letter and the kickstarter campaign are valid.

Apologies to both Ludovic and Fabian for the confusion in my post regarding who did what.
Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:53 pm
Author: tilouboy
It surely wouldn't hurt to know which steps Ludovic has taken so far, but since he hasn't logged in since december...
Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:01 pm
Author: dasher47051
tilouboy wrote:
Those are two different persons. wormhole surfer started the thread. fabianfritzer is now taking it in a different direction.


Sorry, but that makes it even worse. Do both share the same vision? Has wormholesurfer already contacted WotC (or whoever holds the rights)?

The intended letter suggests that no contact whatsoever has been made yet. The way it's written suggests that fabianfritzer has no idea how to write an English/American business letter. I'd be surprised if WotC or Talsorian or whoever will take this letter seriously. And even though I'm probably not counted as part of the NR community I feel let down because I've been asked to make a commitment based on what appears to be false pretenses.
Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:24 pm
Author: minionhunter
Wormhole surfer talked to Garfield himself, but the overall theme of the whole thing leaves most to think its still a pipedream, a little better than that, but a pipedream currently.

Wish I had better new, or that someone (WS) comes in here and corrects me.
Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:33 pm
Author: aliquis
TL;DR

Don't care for limited, foil, whatever, anything which make it more expensive suck.

Heck I don't care for expansions.

The lower the price the more interested I would be. It would need to be competitively priced against other popular non-CCG card games for me to care though.
Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:57 am
Author: wormhole surfer
Hi all !

first please forgive me for haven't beeing logged for a while ...
many personal things to solve and many things to do on NR too

i saw Fabian's post about Wotc letter, thanks Fabian for joining the project but, since we are friend i would have appreciate you contacted me before ...

Because all you want to do here.. i made it ...

to clarify something :

yes the project is actually a "pipedream" .. as mentionned before by a player here .. i don't get the right meaning of this but i understand a little

i have contacted about NR reprint Richard Garfiled and meet him
i contacted Mike pondsmith of R Talsorian games about NR reprint
in cosequence of that they meet together recently and i had some feedbacks of their meetings .
They both agree with the project and will support it.
THE MAIN THING is now WOTC, Richard and mike will speak to them but not before having a solid market project, not a question of Quicksterter here .. since wotc don't want to concede the licence yet .. in fact not before having seen the financial project we are going to bring to them .

i have contacted several editors ( 3 main editors of the market) and some of them are interested to join the project ...

so continue to reply to me about your interests of the reprint ... i continue to gather infos...
i am actually discussing with an editor who already worked with Richard Garfield and this editor, as a big surprised to me already spoke to WOTC one years and a half ago about NR reprint .. WOTC jrected the offer at that time but it was before Richard and mike "joined" the project so let's try once again .

Anyway if NR would be reprinted soon or not, we the NRO ruling team ( Fabian, playful, 700TT, Photon 79 and me) have a huge work to do to stabilize the game and the newest released expansion . THE things that broke us in that work was Playful's pb and disconnection for a while, i spoke with him a week aago and things will move again soon.

as i have been very busy on personnal things i didn't find time to follow the project but my personnal things are on a good way to be solved so i think we can finish our " on working" project in the next 6 months
to summup something we are actually
clarifying the rules by editing a errata file 1.8
creating a new game format "revised 3.0"
balancing and correcting a little open war
balancing deep run
illustrating/balancing/correcting : winterdawn, chrysalid matrix, RIP and the "last" 4 expansion created by Playful

there is many other virtual expansions but they need more work on them to be stabilized and balanced so it will come later ...anyway with the expansions mentionned up .. we have enough material to play for the next 20 years !

i want to clarify something too

i have never left NR since i came in 13 years ago and make difference between my work in the NRO team on www.netrunneronline.com and the project mentionned here.
if the reprint project failed, don't worry for all players who want to play it there will always remain the NRO team and the projects we are driving . i will create in the next 3 months a new NR site ( english and french, maybe in german too ? Fabian ? ) to be a good complement of www.netrunneronline.com where you will find all expansions, rules, ...

I continue my project with WOTC, the editors, Richard and mike But don't leave the freeware version of NR too.. so why waiting for the reprint if you can immediatly run NRO ?

Run Runners !
Seeya

WMS

PS: @ Frizzler, feel free to contact me about that, Khronnax contacted e recently and i saw many things with him .. he can help us ( the NRO team)
Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:08 pm
Author: wormhole surfer
dasher47051 wrote:
tilouboy wrote:
Those are two different persons. wormhole surfer started the thread. fabianfritzer is now taking it in a different direction.


Sorry, but that makes it even worse. Do both share the same vision? Has wormholesurfer already contacted WotC (or whoever holds the rights)?

The intended letter suggests that no contact whatsoever has been made yet. The way it's written suggests that fabianfritzer has no idea how to write an English/American business letter. I'd be surprised if WotC or Talsorian or whoever will take this letter seriously. And even though I'm probably not counted as part of the NR community I feel let down because I've been asked to make a commitment based on what appears to be false pretenses.


as i already replied i already get the answers on Fabian's letter, on many points ...
Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:12 pm
Author: badash56
1. No foils.
2. I would spend $60-$100 if the set had multiple copies of each card.
3. I'm a beginner, but I would buy this.
4. I would pre-order/kickstarter this if needed.
Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:20 pm
Author: mikolajl
badash56 wrote:
1. No foils.
2. I would spend $60-$100 if the set had multiple copies of each card.
3. I'm a beginner, but I would buy this.
4. I would pre-order/kickstarter this if needed.


My answers would be exactly the same.
Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:27 pm
Author: fabianfritzer
Hi all,

first of all, @Ludo: Sorry I didn't contact you before posting my WotC-letter-proposal here. But I wouldn't actually send such a letter without your feedback.

So I see that Richard Garfield and Mike Pondsmith plan to contact WotC / R.Talsorian; that is probably the best way towards a reprint. Those two are more likely to convince the companies than me.

However, if their attempt should fail, I will reactivate my thoughts about kickstarter - thx for all your feedback about it.

To answer the question whether me and Ludo share the same vision: I think we do! Reactivating the game Netrunner is our goal, and a reprint would be the best for this.

SeeYa, Frizzler



Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:38 pm
Author: sdiberar
ldsdbomber wrote:
I may be slightly naive.

Haha! Yes.
Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:28 pm
Author: 1awesomeguy
1 - Should there be foils, rares, or exclusive cards?

Please no!


2 - How much should it cost?

Here are some examples of current card costs: Yomi was $100 for $500 cards. Magic: The Gathering costs about $100 for 500 cards in a booster box. Netrunner currently costs more than that since it is OOP. Dominion costs about $45 for 500 cards. The LotR Card Game costs about $10 for 60 cards.

I think $100 for 500 cards is a bit too much. Probably $49.99 to $59.99 MSRP would give you and the publisher the most sales/profit as it would be a good price point.

Of course this all depends on the number of cards included. I would look at the LotR Card Game published by FFG as I think their pricing model is great. I would just recommend waiting a few months between expansions like Dominion does it instead of releasing them every month.


3 - Would I buy it?

Without a doubt.


4 - Would I pre-order it?

I dislike pre-orders in general as I usually feel there is no added value to me (I'm selfish). But a Netrunner reprint would be one of the few exceptions to my 'no preorder' rule. I would definitely pre-order if it means making sure this get reprinted with a LCG model.


Please make it happen!
Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:09 am
Author: Blind Reality
I guess the announcement of the Anndroid: Netrunner by FFG means this project will unfortunately not happen.

More over here.
Thu May 10, 2012 6:04 pm
Author: 1awesomeguy
Blind Reality wrote:
I guess the announcement of the Anndroid: Netrunner by FFG means this project will unfortunately not happen.

More over here.


Maybe they are the same project?

It would be a big coincidence that there was a movement for a Netrunner LCG just a few months ago and now one has actually been announced. Especially, considering the game has been around since 1996!
Thu May 10, 2012 6:24 pm
Author: Bobloblah
I have to admit that I simply assumed they were part of the same effort. Anything from Wormholesurfer or Frizzler?
Thu May 10, 2012 6:32 pm
Author: EitherOrlok
1awesomeguy wrote:
It would be a big coincidence that there was a movement for a Netrunner LCG just a few months ago and now one has actually been announced. Especially, considering the game has been around since 1996!


For FFG to be making an announcement like this and showing off assets, they've likely been developing this since before these revival discussions started.
Thu May 10, 2012 6:46 pm
Author: Bobloblah
EitherOrlok wrote:
1awesomeguy wrote:
It would be a big coincidence that there was a movement for a Netrunner LCG just a few months ago and now one has actually been announced. Especially, considering the game has been around since 1996!


For FFG to be making an announcement like this and showing off assets, they've likely been developing this since before these revival discussions started.

Normally I would say that's true, but this doesn't require game development (or only minimally); they've cut 'n' pasted the existing game, from the sounds of it. How much faster might that process be? Moreover, the originators of the revival effort have been saying for a while that something is happening, but they just couldn't divulge what it was.
Thu May 10, 2012 6:50 pm
Author: 1awesomeguy
EitherOrlok wrote:
1awesomeguy wrote:
It would be a big coincidence that there was a movement for a Netrunner LCG just a few months ago and now one has actually been announced. Especially, considering the game has been around since 1996!


For FFG to be making an announcement like this and showing off assets, they've likely been developing this since before these revival discussions started.


They've only showed off four cards and the box art so far though.
Thu May 10, 2012 7:03 pm
Author: Sexy Boy
1awesomeguy wrote:

They've only showed off four cards and the box art so far though.


There's more in the product description page!
Thu May 10, 2012 7:08 pm
Author: 1awesomeguy
Sexy Boy wrote:
1awesomeguy wrote:

They've only showed off four cards and the box art so far though.


There's more in the product description page!


Owww... lots more! Thanks for posting! I copied your link over to the announcement post as I don't think many people have seen this.
Thu May 10, 2012 7:41 pm
Author: Daleth
Miracles do happen.
Thu May 10, 2012 9:36 pm
Author: Footoomba
Well I'm in, although I would prefer it stayed in Talsorians Cyberpunk world as upposed to FFG's Android setting but as that's not going to happen I'll take what I can get.
Thu May 10, 2012 11:09 pm
Author: Octavian
As we now know that FFG owns the rights to Netrunner and is reprinting it, I am locking this thread.
Fri May 11, 2012 3:41 am