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Jeremy Salinas

(Drakkenstrike)

United States
Indianapolis
Indiana

Drakkenstrike's Components Breakdown Video Review Series in HD

I'll chime in

51st State is definitely a very solid and entertaining RFtG clone, with a really excellent theme that carries through all the components. I personally enjoyed playing the game for the amount of time I owned it....however, do not be fooled by Lance's great walkthrough, the game is as difficult to grasp as RFtG ever was.

Now, to make myself absolutely clear, both games really aren't that much of a challenge to seasoned gamers like most of us here, but trying to teach ones spouse, family or loved one to play is akin to pulling teeth, especially if they aren't "gamers" by nature. RFtG and 51st are games that have to be played numerous times to fully grasp what's going on within the game, and most casual and novice gamers aren't going to want to sit down and take the time to understand all of the cards branching paths.....which is exactly why this game got jettisoned to eBay for me.

To be honest, I enjoyed 51st State much more than I ever did RFtG, but ultimately the couple of crowds that I introduced this game too just didn't want to invest the time to understand what can at times be a very confusing game. Word of advice - know your group.....if RFtG is a staple of your group, then by all means get 51st State, it's a great deviation. If your gaming group is lighter or has less dedicated gamers amongst them, then try something else, I highly doubt 51st State would go over well.

Great Review Lance !!

Posted Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:16 pm
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Lance

(UndeadViking)

United States
Moorhead
Minnesota

The coolest best thing I have ever done in my life is being a father

Caleb, the best 6 month old little brother ever

A visit from the master himself! What an honor!

My group found 51st State to be much easier to wrap their minds around then Race for the Galaxy, but as always, YMMV.

Here is a link to an invaluable file to help out first time players...and veteran players as well.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/64975/official-toy-vau...

Posted Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:37 pm
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Jeremy Salinas

(Drakkenstrike)

United States
Indianapolis
Indiana

Drakkenstrike's Components Breakdown Video Review Series in HD

UndeadViking wrote:

A visit from the master himself! What an honor!

Oh whatever.

Like I said, I really liked 51st State, it just didn't have the right audience with our group.

Edited Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:18 pm
Posted Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:06 pm
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Lee Fisher

(lfisher)

United States
Downingtown
Pennsylvania

I don't see it as much of an RFTG clone at all. I can see how some of the rules and concepts can be confusing at first though.
If anything it could be harder, because it doesn't have the concept of set actions which help the turn along and give direction. It is more free-form.

Posted Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:33 pm
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Lance

(UndeadViking)

United States
Moorhead
Minnesota

The coolest best thing I have ever done in my life is being a father

Caleb, the best 6 month old little brother ever

lfisher wrote:

I don't see it as much of an RFTG clone at all. I can see how some of the rules and concepts can be confusing at first though.
If anything it could be harder, because it doesn't have the concept of set actions which help the turn along and give direction. It is more free-form.

Good point!

I think the comparison is more of the "type" of game it is. You use cards to slowly create a victory point engine and race the other players to the victory line.

Posted Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:46 pm
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tom moughan

(lengthtoavoid)

United States
Rochester
New York

ahh....I love the smell of a stack of sketchily placed animals in the morning!

lfisher wrote:

I don't see it as much of an RFTG clone at all. I can see how some of the rules and concepts can be confusing at first though.
If anything it could be harder, because it doesn't have the concept of set actions which help the turn along and give direction. It is more free-form.

Yea, I'd have to agree with you. It shares a lot of design elements of a few games but other than vp chips and incorporating buildings it doesn't really follow Race too much.

My only gripe from a few plays of it was I just think its easy to make most of the connections you want to before long. I am certain that's what an expansion would address.

Posted Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:36 pm
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Christopher Beck

(baelthazar)

United States
Bloomington
Indiana

The Electronic Eremite

This is eerie.... I was just looking into buying 51st State today and come to find out that Viking just did a review for it! Cool!

I agree with RftG. My wife disliked it because the symbols were just too bizarre to be intuitive. I may give 51st State a try (and the price is relatively low, compared to 7 Wonders, for instance).

Edited Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:50 pm
Posted Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:49 pm
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Joel Eddy

(eekamouse)

United States
Coeur d'Alene
ID

Just ordered this game from B&B. Looking forward to it.

There is an expansion planned.... The New Era

Thanks for the review!

Edited Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:55 am
Posted Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:52 am
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Paul Leoncavallo

(nyys)

United States
Rockland
Massachusetts

Yep, great game, and I found that I was playing one item incorrectly. We were giving 2 victory points when redeveloping a location or replacing a leader. One point for the location/leader that was going away so the point is not lost and one point for the act of redeveloping/replacing. Though it looks like the act of redeveloping/replacing gives a point so you do not lose the point gained from the original location/leader it doesn't actually gain you an additional victory point.

Great review!

Posted Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:57 am
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Lee Fisher

(lfisher)

United States
Downingtown
Pennsylvania

nyys wrote:

Yep, great game, and I found that I was playing one item incorrectly. We were giving 2 victory points when redeveloping a location or replacing a leader. One point for the location/leader that was going away so the point is not lost and one point for the act of redeveloping/replacing. Though it looks like the act of redeveloping/replacing gives a point so you do not lose the point gained from the original location/leader it doesn't actually gain you an additional victory point.

Great review!

You do actually gain a point for the action.

Posted Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:16 am
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Lance

(UndeadViking)

United States
Moorhead
Minnesota

The coolest best thing I have ever done in my life is being a father

Caleb, the best 6 month old little brother ever

lfisher wrote:

nyys wrote:

Yep, great game, and I found that I was playing one item incorrectly. We were giving 2 victory points when redeveloping a location or replacing a leader. One point for the location/leader that was going away so the point is not lost and one point for the act of redeveloping/replacing. Though it looks like the act of redeveloping/replacing gives a point so you do not lose the point gained from the original location/leader it doesn't actually gain you an additional victory point.

Great review!

You do actually gain a point for the action.

This has been debated quite a bit in our group as to the interpretation of the rules actually. My thought was always that if you have the leader, that leader is getting you a point just for existing. When you replace them, you add a point to your card to represent that you had that leader at some point (but now they are dead) along with any other points that they earned you while they were alive. Now you have a new leader, which by existing still earns you a point, giving you a net of +1.

From the rules:

Quote:

VP tokens are used to mark scored VPs. Players don’t use VP tokens to mark the basic VP value of Locations and Leaders, as they are all worth 1 VP each.

Also from the rules:

Quote:

CHANGING THE LEADER gives the player performing this action 1 VP.
In order to play a new Leader Card, a player must spend one „Weapons” Resource token and remove the current Leader. The current Leader Card is discarded and replaced with the new one. Remember to keep all the VPs scored with the Leader Card being discarded - place the VP tokens on your Base card.

Yes you GET a VP for taking the action, but the net is still only +1 VP, not +2 as a lot of people have misinterpreted.

Of course - I could very well be wrong, but that's how we play it.

Edited Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:02 pm
Posted Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:00 pm
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Lee Fisher

(lfisher)

United States
Downingtown
Pennsylvania

UndeadViking wrote:

lfisher wrote:

nyys wrote:

Yep, great game, and I found that I was playing one item incorrectly. We were giving 2 victory points when redeveloping a location or replacing a leader. One point for the location/leader that was going away so the point is not lost and one point for the act of redeveloping/replacing. Though it looks like the act of redeveloping/replacing gives a point so you do not lose the point gained from the original location/leader it doesn't actually gain you an additional victory point.

Great review!

You do actually gain a point for the action.

This has been debated quite a bit in our group as to the interpretation of the rules actually. My thought was always that if you have the leader, that leader is getting you a point just for existing. When you replace them, you add a point to your card to represent that you had that leader at some point (but now they are dead) along with any other points that they earned you while they were alive. Now you have a new leader, which by existing still earns you a point, giving you a net of +1.

From the rules:

Quote:

VP tokens are used to mark scored VPs. Players don’t use VP tokens to mark the basic VP value of Locations and Leaders, as they are all worth 1 VP each.

Also from the rules:

Quote:

CHANGING THE LEADER gives the player performing this action 1 VP.
In order to play a new Leader Card, a player must spend one „Weapons” Resource token and remove the current Leader. The current Leader Card is discarded and replaced with the new one. Remember to keep all the VPs scored with the Leader Card being discarded - place the VP tokens on your Base card.

Yes you GET a VP for taking the action, but the net is still only +1 VP, not +2 as a lot of people have misinterpreted.

Of course - I could very well be wrong, but that's how we play it.

I think you are saying it right. 1VP for "old leader", +1VP for action. New leader is also worth another point.

From the FAQ:

Quote:

How many VP does one get for a redevelopment/leader change?

You receive a 2VP token (your new location/leader is also worth a point).

Each card in your state is worth 1VP. You do not lose point for cards. Your old card is still worth 1VP so you take this 1VP when you discard the card and 1VP for the redevelopment action = 2VP.

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/5720336#5720336

Link to FAQ
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/51st_State_FAQ

Also from the new rules:

Quote:

EACH REDEVELOPED LOCATION / EXCHANGED LEADER is worth
2 VPs (1 VP as it was a Location / Leader plus 1 VP for the Redevelopment
/ Exchange the Leader Action). The player places a VP token with a value of 2 onto
his Base. If the redeveloped Location / exchanged Leader had any VPs placed on
them, those VPs are also put onto the Base card.

Posted Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:21 pm
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Lance

(UndeadViking)

United States
Moorhead
Minnesota

The coolest best thing I have ever done in my life is being a father

Caleb, the best 6 month old little brother ever

I stand corrected!

Thanks!

Posted Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:33 pm
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Mike Ulrey

(EclipsedHalo)

United States
Dublin
Ohio

Wait did he say 50 first dates? Great Review!!

Posted Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:04 am
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Marco Arnaudo

(marnaudo)

United States
Bloomington
Indiana

"My spoon is too big!"

baelthazar wrote:

This is eerie.... I was just looking into buying 51st State today and come to find out that Viking just did a review for it!

what's way eerier is that I just finished filming my video review for 51st State (it is uploading on youtube right now) and I find out that Lance just came out with a review of the same game!! How crazy is that?

Luckily I'll publish mine close enough to Lance's so that it won't seem like plagiarism, because many of the things I say in my vid are the same as those in Lance's review. With the noticeable exception that for me and my group the rulebook was extremely hard to understand!!

Anyway: great job Lance!!

Posted Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:21 am
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Lance

(UndeadViking)

United States
Moorhead
Minnesota

The coolest best thing I have ever done in my life is being a father

Caleb, the best 6 month old little brother ever

As a fan of your work Marco, I greatly appreciate your kind words. Rest assured, if your opinion mirrors mine in any way, I will not consider it plagiarism, but simply great minds thinking alike!

whistle

As far as the rule book goes, I found it rather simple - I don't really know why. It might be the way I approach a game, in that after I break it open and break open the rulebook, I play out a turn or two solo to get a feeling for the rules and a feeling for the "flow" of game itself. This makes it so much easier to spring it on my gaming group.

The one thing that boggled my mind at first was the lookout phase. For some reason the whole process of putting five cards out, then drawing when you had less than four, then less than three, and so on just didn't click until I read a further explanation here on the 'Geek.

Again - thanks for the kind words Marco, I look forward to watching your review!

Posted Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:39 am
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Marco Arnaudo

(marnaudo)

United States
Bloomington
Indiana

"My spoon is too big!"

UndeadViking wrote:

simply great minds thinking alike!

I agree [which gives further evidence to your point too]

UndeadViking wrote:

As far as the rule book goes, I found it rather simple - I don't really know why. It might be the way I approach a game, in that after I break it open and break open the rulebook, I play out a turn or two solo to get a feeling for the rules and a feeling for the "flow" of game itself. This makes it so much easier to spring it on my gaming group.

I usually do too and that was probably my mistake this time, I read the rulebook without executing all the steps with the components in the meanwhile.

UndeadViking wrote:

The one thing that boggled my mind at first was the lookout phase. For some reason the whole process of putting five cards out, then drawing when you had less than four, then less than three, and so on just didn't click until I read a further explanation here on the 'Geek.

true, but I was even more baffled by the production phase. Not knowing what all the game terms meant made it very hard.

Keep up the good work Lance!

Posted Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:06 pm
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Bernard

(Bernaar)

Netherlands
Amsterdam

Contest of this review: How many times does Lance say "If you will" in this review? The one that guesses right gets 51 free games from Lance... if you will!

No offense Lance, I am just kidding!

Thanks a lot for all your reviews! They are great! Keep up the good work!

Edited Wed May 11, 2011 5:45 pm
Posted Wed May 11, 2011 5:43 pm
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Jack

(senorcoo)

United States
Cumberland
Rhode Island

Lance - since you said you are usually at the 5p mark, are you planning on reviewing the Horned Rat expansion for Chaos in the Old World?

Posted Sat Jul 2, 2011 7:53 pm
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Stasia Doster

(scdoster)

United States
Sherman
Texas

I bought this one here on the Geek thanks to your review, Lance. I am hoping my family enjoys the game as much as you do. Thanks for bringing the game to my attention!

Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:37 am
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Chris Smith

(CrusaderX)

United States

Virginia

It is a great review! I do believe there are a few rules ambiguities, if I'm correct anyway.

(It's easy to do... the rules for this game aren't the best translation/

)

When you say a leader can earn you up to 5 VP, doesn't that break the rule of threes? Or are you including if you assassinate them?

(They can earn you three points by the rule of threes, and you receive a +2 VP token for the assassination. =5 VP)

Also, isn't it illegal to send a worker to your own production facilities? I thought they only produced during your production phase, and other people had to pay workers to use your open production facilities?

Love your reviews Lance, you've cost me so much money. ninja

Posted Sat Feb 4, 2012 9:28 pm
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