Meeple Like Us

Welcome to Meeple Like Us, the BGG face for http://meeplelikeus.co.uk. Our focus is on board-games, especially the physical, cognitive, visual, emotional and sociological accessibility of tabletop gaming. Get in touch at dice@imaginary-realities.com.

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When I Dream (2016) - Accessibility Teardown

Michael Heron
Scotland
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Introduction

When I Dream has a great elevator pitch and a weirdly compelling and transgressive hook. Slipping on that eye-mask is an adoption of vulnerability you rarely see in board games. It’s a shame really the game itself fails to be particularly satisfying – the ‘hidden traitor’ mechanisms just don’t work, in our view, in the time-frame of a typical dream. The nature of the guessing at fantastic elements suffers greatly as a result. We gave it two stars in our review.

As usual though if you cared about what we thought about the game you’d be checking out our comments in the other part of the site. You’re not here to have your eyes covered, but rather to have them opened. Is this going to be an accessible game? Let’s see what we can read in our dream journals.

Oh, it says here that I met Superman and Mickey Mouse and we all went to our nearest Dominos pizza place to teach them a lesson for their horrendous food. We cornered the manager, and then we… oh my. Oh my. Oh my god.

Well.

Put that to one side. Nobody cares about your dreams anyway.

Colour Blindness

Colour will occasionally be a problem as is always the case when people are dancing around the semantic relationship between words, imagery and concept. The word ‘red’ may come to mind for one player but be interpreted differently by another. That’s not going to be a critical problem, but it may occasionally raise its head.

The most significant issue for a colour blind player is that the art in the game loses a lot of its aesthetic appeal because of the vibrant palettes. In games like Dixit or Mysterium this sometimes a significant downside but When I Dream is odd in that its art is absolutely meaningless as a gameplay system. It’s the image equivalent of the empty largely irrelevant flavour text you get on games that want you to engage somewhat with their lore. The only thing that really matters in a round of dreaming is the word you need to get the dreamer to guess – they don’t even get to see the cards. As such, the only impact is on the attractiveness of the game. That’s not nothing, but it isn’t a major impediment to enjoying the game itself.

We’ll recommend When I Dream in this category.

Visual Accessibility

The main issue here is going to be in tracking the word that needs to be communicated to the dreamer, and checking the role assigned to non-dreamers in the course of play. These are both significant issues but not necessarily critical ones. Let’s begin with the easiest of these.

Players get dealt out one of three secret roles as part of the setup of a round of dreaming, but this isn’t like most ‘hidden traitor’ games where players need to tease out who is who over the course of the game session. The dreamer needs to work this out but they get very little information other than the clues given and no way to relate their guesses to success until the dream is over. As such, there’s very little need to hide the roles non-dreamers have. It will almost certainly become obvious after a single circuit of the table with regards to fairies and bogeymen, and after a couple for sandmen. Players only retain those roles for the duration of a single dream, which is about two minutes. As such, it seems like there would be little to lose from playing with those roles open. In that circumstance, a player adjacent to a visually impaired or totally blind player could indicate their role either with a whisper or some other covert indication.

Read the rest of this post here.

The Meeple Like Us Geeklist is here.

If you can spare a dollar (or more) to support our quest to improve the accessibility of boardgames, we'd appreciate your consideration of our Patreon.
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Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:52 pm
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When I Dream (2016)

Michael Heron
Scotland
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TL;DR: Definitely not for me. Maybe not for you.

Imagine playing Dixit. It’s good, isn’t it? A beautiful design. Elegant systems. Gorgeous art. You’re happy with it. You’re satiated. But you know – the more you play, the more familiar it becomes. It stops being exciting and starts being comfortable. Now imagine that one night you’ve got an arm around the Dixit box. It’s companionable. It’s straightforward. Simple. But slowly it turns to you and asks, with a mischievous grin, ‘fancy getting a little bit exotic tonight?’

‘What do you have in mind?’, you ask.

It opens its cardboard contours to reveal a blindfold. It slips it out and presses it into your hands. The silk is cool and inviting against your skin.

‘Put it on’, Dixit whispers into your ear.

‘Oh… okay’, you quietly mumble. Your heart beats faster. You fasten the straps behind your head. This is unexpected but… it’s nice. You reach out. Dixit takes you by the hands. You can feel electricity sparkle through your fingertips at the contact.







The baby that was the mistaken outcome of that night of that night of welcome but unplanned experimentation goes by the name When I Dream.

When I dream is Dixit with an eye-mask. It’s that simple. Alternatively it’s what happens when someone takes Mysterium and aggressively cross-breeds it with Eyes Wide Shut in an unsanctioned laboratory. At least – that’s 90% of what the game is. The other 10% is the hidden traitor mechanisms of The Resistance wedded into the mix. The whole scenario would make for a compelling bit of day-time viewing with questionable DNA tests and unreliable lie detectors taking the place of worthwhile discussion.

Read the rest of this post here.

The Meeple Like Us Geeklist is here.

If you can spare a dollar (or more) to support our quest to improve the accessibility of boardgames, we'd appreciate your consideration of our Patreon.
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Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:10 pm
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Carbon City Zero (2020)

Michael Heron
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Introduction

Let’s talk about Carbon City Zero!

I firmly maintain that one of the best things a board game publisher can do before committing to a final design to a is to get an accessibility audit done. We offer these as part of our consultancy service, but it’s not really important that it’s done by us. It should just be done. It’s a fantastic way to find (usually) cheap ways to increase the potential audience for a game, and it’s actually a wonderful way to market a product. Show people you care about their needs, and they’ll be willing to listen to your pitch.

Unfortunately when a game comes to Meeple Like Us for an accessibility audit, it means that we can’t ethically review it since it would then be a conflict of interest. We’re put in the position of wanting something to do well so that we can say ‘Look how important our consultancy is, you should totally get the same done!’. It doesn’t mean we can’t talk about the game but it does mean we need to be upfront about our involvement. That’s why as part of the consultancy we offer there is an option for a supporting post that gives me a chance to do a little signal boosting in a way that I think is ethically appropriate. This is the supporting promotional post for Carbon City Zero.

Carbon City Zero is a deck building game from Dr. Sam Illingworth and Dr. Paul Wake, aimed at gamifying some of the concepts and techniques behind the decarbonisation of modern cities. Like many games of this nature you need to balance the need to generate income against meeting victory conditions, all the while carefully curating your deck so as to remove the cards you no longer want. You’re looking to build a lean, efficient, and clean deck that chains together environmental technologies to hit a net zero carbon emission standard. It’s an interesting, worthy theme for a game. If you’re interested in seeing it played, I thoroughly recommend you check out the Girls Game Shelf preview.

The Kickstarter campaign runs from 20th September to 20th October 2019 and you can check it out here!

The Game Itself

Let’s get my own personal views out of the way first – I thought this was a nice, enjoyable deck-builder that does a good job of communicating an important science message in an intuitive way. It’s not the first time the designers have tackled this subject – they also did an excellent job with a version of Catan aimed at illustrating issues of global warming. It’s not surprising then that the game would come together well. I had some concerns with balance and the ease with which net zero could be reached but there’s always going to be a tension here between advocacy and fun. The game employs a neat chaining mechanism that encourages decks being constructed in particular ways, but also adds interesting random events and global scenarios that alter play for everyone. As discussed above, this isn’t a review but I genuinely think it’s a good game.

As to the accessibility audit – there was a lot of stuff that Carbon City Zero got right from the start. The first and most important of these is that it got an accessibility audit done before the Kickstarter began. I’m sometimes asked if I’d be okay with an audit being included as a stretch goal in games, and my answer is usually ‘Sure, but it’s a really bad look’. Accessibility as a ‘nice to have’ is a problematic idea because it shows that a) you know inaccessibility is an issue, and b) you’re only going to address it if a campaign goes really well. That’s something that often backfires.

That’s not the case here – accessibility has been an important concern of the designers from the start, and even as part of their earlier work with Catan: Global Warming where I provided some light input into the accessibility.

Read the rest of this post here.

The Meeple Like Us Geeklist is here.

If you can spare a dollar (or more) to support our quest to improve the accessibility of boardgames, we'd appreciate your consideration of our Patreon.
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Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:11 pm
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Buffy The Vampire Slayer: The Board Game (2016) - Accessibility Teardown

Michael Heron
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Introduction

The Buffy board game wasn’t much of a hit with us here at Meeple Like Us. All in all we’d rather just watch the DVDs, really. The game had a couple of major problems. The inconsistent design that liberally mixed heavy randomness with algorithmic optimisation undercut its effectiveness as a strategic experience. The theme seemed more like it was aimed at devotees of the Buffy wiki more than anyone else. That meant that it didn’t really hit the mark as a piece of fan service either. It’s a shame – it’s one of the few games about which Mrs Meeple was actually enthusiastic enough to make a special request. I would have liked it to have been better. Two stars in our review.

That doesn’t mean it’s dead and buried though. It can still rise if it can make a strong pitch as a game with meaningful accessibility credentials. I have my wooden stake handy as I sit by its coffin. I’ll tell you one way or another if I have to use it.

We can start off with good news here. Nothing in the game uses colour as its primary channel of information.

Cards make heavy use of icons and text. The board uses art and text. The standees are differentiated primarily by the characters, and each of the different tokens is adorned with descriptions.

We’ll strongly recommend Buffy in this category.

Visual Accessibility

The board is quite large but only made up of a relatively small number of locations. There will be vampires, zombies and townies strewn around these. There’s a lot of evaluation that goes into knowing where you need to be and when, and in what sequence actions should be triggered in order to meet the needs of the group. However, since Buffy is a co-operative game a lot of the issues we tend to encounter here are mitigated by the fact nobody is trying to screw over anyone else.

Playing with open information is almost certainly going to empower those that are keen to quarterback, but as I’ve said in previous accessibility teardowns – what’s unforgivable behaviour in some circumstances might be just the thing to move an inaccessible game into accessibility. Here, discussion at the table can help with strategizing and prioritising. Extensive table talk and compromise would be a natural part of the game provided visually impaired players are able to contribute to decision making and to the eventual plan undertaken.

Each player has a standee which gives a way to tell the difference between Scoobies and other characters. However, individual Scoobies cannot be told apart by touch – only that a player character is to be found in a particular region of the board. The layout of the board should eventually become familiar because it never changes, and the effects of each of the locations are not especially complex. Some reminders will likely be required but those can be built into the strategy discussion.

Each player will have a small number of cards representing inventory and more powerful artefacts. Most of these have straight-forward effects, although this information is presented only textually. There is a very small set of standard items, but the artefacts are far more varied and idiosyncratic.

Each character has a set of action tokens they flip over to indicate when they are spent, but it’s easy enough to replace this with a stack that gets smaller as actions are triggered. There are only a small number of actions between which a player need choose, and what these are is common between characters. Only the specific special ability is unique to a given player board. That aids in learnability for a character and also in transferring the knowledge about how a character plays to another. There’s not a massive amount that would need memorized to be effective in any role.

Read the rest of this post here.

The Meeple Like Us Geeklist is here.

If you can spare a dollar (or more) to support our quest to improve the accessibility of boardgames, we'd appreciate your consideration of our Patreon.
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Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:47 pm
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Accessibility, Ethics and Bad Scottish Accents - Meeple Like Us on We're Not Wizards

Michael Heron
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What is up, y'all.

This is just a super-quick post to note that after about two years of both of us never getting around to it, myself and Richard from We're Not Wizards finally managed to record a podcast together!

You can check it out here:

https://werenotwizards.podbean.com/e/meeplelikeus/

Richard does great work with We're Not Wizards and I hope you check out the many things he has done!
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:49 pm
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Buffy the Vampire Slayer: The Board Game (2016)

Michael Heron
Scotland
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TL;DR: Definitely not for me. Maybe not for you.

I’m the one that purchases board games in our house-hold. Mrs Meeple, truth be told, would be happier with a smaller collection of well-worn favourites. As such she views every new game arriving at the door with a justifiable amount of suspicion. At a certain point running a blog like this you’re not exploring new games – you’re taking on new chores. A brand new game doesn’t glimmer with promise. It threatens to carve out a chunk of your free-time with no guarantees it’ll make it worth your while. We don’t have unplayed games on my shelves. We have procrastinated responsibilities.

As such, when Mrs Meeple sees a game and says ‘Buy that one’ I take it seriously. That’s why we ended up with a copy of the Buffy board game during our last visit to the UK Games Expo.

Truthfully, the only reason that I wouldn’t have bought it would be that I have a prejudice when it comes to television shows being adapted to board games. I think of the mass-market dross that filled the shelves in the 80s, 90s and well into the 21st century. The Blockbusters board game. The Dragon’s Den board game. Numberwang. I think of games that were produced to fill a gap in a product branding campaign rather than because a designer had a great idea that just had to be let out. I assumed Buffy was going to be more of the same. I loved the television show. I just don’t love cash-in board games.

The good news is – it isn’t a cash in-board game! The bad news is – it’s uninspiring for other, more fundamental reasons.

Here’s the basic gist of play. You take on the role of one of the Extended Family of Scoobies. You can be Buffy, Xander, Giles or Willow as you would expect. You can also choose to be Angel or Spike if you like. Each player gets a limited pool of actions they can perform each turn. Each draws from a shared menu of abilities, but also a special Super Ability that is unique to them. Each character will also have a couple of inventory cards representing consumables. Wooden stakes, weapons, magic supplies and so on. Each of these will have some combination of additional actions they permit while you have them. They will also provide a bespoke special powers that activates if they’re discarded. If you have a wooden stake in your inventory for example you’ll kill vampires you fight rather than stun them. If you discard the stake, you’ll kill the vampire without spending one of your precious action points. Different locations in the game have different power that you can access, which makes it seem like there’s an extent to which you need to defend and optimise your control of areas to accomplish the tasks. It’s a solid pitch.

Your job in the game is to gather up the items that will let you make an attempt at the monster of the week. Defeating each monster of the week will reveal a plot point, and when you’ve gotten enough of those you reveal the big bad that serves as the boss battle for the game. As each plot point is revealed, new things happen– escalations of consequence that force you to undertake increasingly difficult challenges that will only end when you or the boss is dead. Once you defeat the big bad, Sunnydale is safe – or at least as safe as a cursed city built on a Hellmouth can possibly be. I grew up in a Dundee housing estate, so I can sympathise a bit there.

Read the rest of this post here.

The Meeple Like Us Geeklist is here.

If you can spare a dollar (or more) to support our quest to improve the accessibility of boardgames, we'd appreciate your consideration of our Patreon.
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Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:01 pm
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Top Ten Reasons To Cull A Game from your Collection

Michael Heron
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Introduction

We’re currently in the position of having to do some heavy-duty purging of possessions. Books, DVDs, rare art-works pilfered in daring heists across the continent – they all have to be abandoned in line with our new life situation. More on that in a later posting – it’s not the focus of this article.

Board games are not exempt, although given that Meeple Like Us needs a game library to function they’re getting through the Great Cull with the largest proportion of survivors. You may have read my account of Tabletop Scotland 2019 where I outlined what games we we sold and the prices the games achieved. Board games hold their value really well – a DVD box set that may have cost me £50 at the time is doing good trade if it would sell for 50p. A board game at a bring and buy will often go for about 50% of its current RRP and that’s a good ratio.

We currently need to cull, but it’s a good idea to regularly consider what games you could get rid of to clear clutter off the shelves or even just give yourself some spare money to refine your collection.

When I began the process I honestly wasn’t sure where to begin with it. In the end I put together a pretty comprehensive list of titles to remove and realised there were some common themes as to why they were going. I found the process of going through a cull to be very worthwhile, and I thought it would be a good post that would complement a lot of the things we’ve spoken about over the years. For example, conspicuous consumption.

In today’s special feature I’m going to give you a list of the ten reasons I used to cull my collection, and give you some examples of games that fell into each of the categories. Culling of your collection is good. Curation is a valuable activity. Maybe you’ll find this a useful way to get started!

Read the rest of this post here.

The Meeple Like Us Geeklist is here.

If you can spare a dollar (or more) to support our quest to improve the accessibility of boardgames, we'd appreciate your consideration of our Patreon.
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Mon Sep 9, 2019 7:27 pm
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Junk Art (2016) - Accessibility Teardown

Michael Heron
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Introduction

We made the argument in the review that all stacking games are basically the same game, and that fundamentally they were more about the collapse than they were about the building up. Junk Art is a great game and I’d recommend it to your attention, but I’d be hard pressed to recommend it over any number of other equivalent games. In the end, they’re all about the sane call to oblivion.

Yeah, we took a pretty dark angle on stacking games in our review. Still, we gave Junk Art four stars so you know – reasons to be cheerful and all that.

Ah, but the review is only part of our coverage here and dexterity games tend to have hard time excelling in our teardowns. We’ve addressed a few by this point – Rhino Hero and Rhino Hero Super Battle; Ice Cool; Meeple Circus; and more. We’re still on the lookout for the perfectly accessible game in this broad family. Let’s check to see if Junk Art is what we’ve been waiting for.

Colour Blindness

There’s an interesting feature of Junk Art here in that that colour is an important part of the game (each of your junk cards is colour coded) and the palette chosen is problematic. However, that doesn’t actually have to be a big deal when you’re playing.

Each of the different colours has the same set of shapes – indeed, one of the game modes depends on an equivalence of the pieces available. As such, if a card indicates a particular colour of shape then it’s okay from the perspective of stacking to grab any matching shape. That makes the game a bit easier in some areas (you have multiple valid pieces) and harder in others (the brief stuttering of activity when the specific piece you were cognitively primed to grab isn’t there because someone else took it). It would dampen down some of the challenge, but as I outlined in the review I don’t really believe these games really find their emotional payload in the construction.

As such, a game that is broadly inaccessible to those with colour blindness can be fully playable provided everyone is willing to just ignore colours. There is no game mode where it’s necessary to identify colours other than as a consequence of junk cards, although there is one that requires people to gather up their own set of coloured pieces. That’s unlikely to be a problematic mini-game since everyone will handle a lot of the partitioning of colours themselves.

We recommend Junk Art in this category, with the proviso that people don’t overly mind matching on shape alone rather than colour and shape.

Visual Accessibility

Whether turn based or real time, Junk Art is going to be problematic in this category. It’s possible to aim for a more accessible world tour by removing the real-time mini-games from the deck, and it’s possible in the turn-based mode for someone to provide the pieces to be placed to a visually impaired player. However, this is unlikely to be a fully effective solution for several reasons.

The first is that physical position around a table has an impact on gathering up pieces, and many of the game modes penalise pieces being knocked out of position. To reach over to grab a piece for another player and pass it to them is an additional vector of risk with regards to upsetting what people have built. That risk gets greater the larger and less secure a table is. Structures can be fragile enough that simply disturbing the air around them is a danger.

The second reason is that having the piece in hand is the easy part of the procedure. It then has to be placed on a structure that is likely very precarious and with imbalances and biases in its design that players will want to stress or avoid as it gets built.

Read the rest of this post here.

The Meeple Like Us Geeklist is here.

If you can spare a dollar (or more) to support our quest to improve the accessibility of boardgames, we'd appreciate your consideration of our Patreon.
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Sun Sep 8, 2019 4:05 pm
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Junk Art (2016)

Michael Heron
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TL;DR: It's great! You should probably try it if you can!

There gets to a point when reviewing games where you look at a box laid out on your table and think ‘I’m not sure there’s anything I can really say about this that hasn’t already been said’. When you review things like Catan and Carcassonne it’s true – so much has been written about those classics that you almost certainly don’t have a new perspective. Sometimes though, as is the case with Junk Art, the problem is more fundamental. It’s a dexterity game of stacking things on top of things and waiting for someone to mess up and bring the whole structure down. Once you’ve reviewed one game like this, assuming you’re reaching for something beyond a rules recitation, you’ve essentially reviewed them all. The core of what makes these games worthwhile is pretty much universal and all each new iteration of the concept can do is fritter about at the edges.

Okay, that’s not entirely fair. The nuances of rules and styles of play have a significant impact. Meeple Circus is not Rhino Hero Super Battle, and Junk Art likewise isn’t either of those. They have different things you stack, in different ways, within different constraints, and to different purposes. But still… in each of these games you’re stacking awkward shapes on top of awkward shapes as a way of staving off the catharsis of catastrophe. Like all these games, Junk Art is fun because it’s inherently satisfying to build something, and it’s somehow even better to see it all come crashing down. Stacking games are the call of the void, stripped of its risk and consequence. Gameified and brought into the home. They’re the safe and sanitised way of standing by the cliff edge and experiencing a pull towards the compulsive thought to destroy everything we worked so hard to build.

Okay, enough of the philosophising. At least for now. Let’s get the gameplay out of the way.

In Junk Art, you and your fellow players are going to be performing a ‘world tour’ around a series of cities that want you to engage in baffling acts of ad hoc architecture in exchange for prestige and fame. A tour consists of three randomly dealt cities, each of which has their own specific ‘play mode’ associated. Each city is basically a dexterity mini-game with its own setup, ruleset and win condition. Each player will be given a set of cards, or not, that depict shapes of particular configurations and colours. Depending the city, these might be individual or shared. Players might be working on their own structure or collaboratively building one in the centre of the table. They might be trying to place the largest number of pieces, build the tallest structure, or simply stay in the game long enough to avoid being eliminated through mistakes. Sometimes wins are individual, and sometimes they’re shared. Sometimes you don’t win – you just don’t lose. Sometimes it’s turn based. Sometimes it’s against the time-limit set by the the fastest player. It’s always essentially the same thing though – build a sturdy structure using unreliable parts thrown your way by the erratic whims of randomness. The player that achieves the largest total count of points by the end of the tour is the winner.

Consider Monaco as an example of the mini-games you might play. You get a stack of ten face-down ‘junk art’ cards. When the first player yells ‘go’, everyone flips their top card and searches for that piece in the mass of plastic strewn around the table. They find it, they place it, and they flip over the next card. This they do until they either work their way through their stack or cause their structure to fall. At that point they must rebuild it, in the correct order, before they can continue. The player that finishes first terminates the round, and players get points for the number of pieces they managed to place. It’s a typical Junk Art scenario – simple, challenging, and full of fun and comedy.

Read the rest of this post here.

The Meeple Like Us Geeklist is here.

If you can spare a dollar (or more) to support our quest to improve the accessibility of boardgames, we'd appreciate your consideration of our Patreon.
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Wed Sep 4, 2019 7:07 pm
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Viticulture: Essential Edition (2015) - Accessibility Teardown

Michael Heron
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Version Reviewed

English second edition

Introduction

I actually thought my review of Viticulture was going to be a good deal more positive when I sat down to write it. The more I thought about it though the more I realised the fun I had was heavily influenced by the very factors that make it such an uneven experience. In the end it got three stars – still respectable but considerably outside the standard deviation of disagreement that would normally handle such things. At the time of writing it’s considered to be a top twenty game by Boardgamegeek. That’s not a position I can endorse.

But wait! There’s still a chance for Viticulture to earn itself a boatload of praise on Meeple Like Us. It’s a game of rich components and the typical Stonemaier production qualities. When we looked at Scythe we had a lot of positive things to say on the back of that attention to detail even if we couldn’t really endorse the game in many of our accessibility categories. Let’s see whether Viticulture is planted in richer soil.

Colour Blindness

Well, we’re not off to a good start. There are a fairly significant number of problems with the palette. The first of these is the cards, which come in green, yellow, purple and blue. The latter two of these are issues for some categories of colour blindness:

To be fair, these will also be differentiated by card back but it’s an accessibility issue that didn’t have to be there especially given how you might want to identify some of these at a distance (in an opponent’s hand for example) and the icons may not be fully visible. Meeples too have issues, particularly the orange, yellow and green:

This has an impact, but not as much as you might think – it’s only relatively rarely that you want to perform an action on the basis of what workers a player has historically allocated. Mostly you’re looking at what they might do in the future. This though has some implications when it comes to scoring and identifying round order.

But…

Notice here how some of the actions say ‘draw a card’ but they don’t actually name it? That’s another issue those with colour blindness will have to navigate. This problem will become easier to deal with as familiarity with the board builds, but the costs of taking an action that gives you a card you don’t expect can be considerable.

Your own player board doesn’t suffer from any colour issues – it’s in front of you at all times and where colour is an issue there are positional cues that can be relied upon.

Greg Darcy in the comments below though added this very insightful point that I had missed:

The Visitor cards reference other cards simply by an icon of the appropriate colour. Except I cannot tell the difference between purple and blue for the life of me. I can make out this information on the board partly because it is also referenced by location as you note. But on the visitor cards, haven’t a hope

So – plenty of problems. We can’t recommend Viticulture in this category.

Read the rest of this post here.

The Meeple Like Us Geeklist is here.

If you can spare a dollar (or more) to support our quest to improve the accessibility of boardgames, we'd appreciate your consideration of our Patreon.
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Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:26 pm
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