GCL Eclipse Episode 192: Illusive Requests -or- Paradoxical Niches
Shane Larsen
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Salt Lake City
UT
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Many of you may know I enjoy spending time in the recommendation forums. Recently I've been less active, but I still find myself going back there every time I log in. It's just something about how my brain works. I like helping people. I really enjoy trying to think of the game that best fits peoples' requests.

Through the years, I've noticed there are recurring requests that often can't be perfectly answered. Most of the items and questions below stem from those common, illusive requests. I hope the questions spark some interesting conversation.

Please feel free to add your own item if you can think of any illusive requests/paradoxical niches.

Thanks and enjoy!



This is the Game Chat League: Eclipse discussion list for the week of June 1, 2015.

Lurkers, see the GCL Eclipse wiki for more information about the discussion group.

Next week's list will be provided by

Dave Kudzma
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Millsboro
Delaware
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Please read before posting:

If you're a lurker or have otherwise discovered GCL Eclipse, feel free to read along with us. And if you have a constructive comment or something else you think would add to the discussion, consider posting it—if it's helpful, respectful, and polite to the discussion group as a whole, as well as to its individual members. However, if you'd like to join in regular discussion, first post to the current discussion list inquiring about the possibility of becoming a member, with full discussion privileges.

To that end, GCL Eclipse members may from time to time request that nonmember posters refrain from commenting in the discussion lists for reasons that may include aggressive or confrontational commentary, disruptive or irrelevant discourse, and overly frequent or habitual posting without first requesting and being granted membership.

If you are interested in becoming a member, please peruse our wiki. If what you see interests you, contact Jason to inquire about the possibility of becoming a member:

Jason Lott
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Cheverly
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Thank you for respecting these guidelines in our place of regular discussion. We hope the discussion we create here is rich, informative, and, most of all, fun for members and nonmembers alike.
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1. Board Game: Pocket Civ [Average Rating:6.67 Overall Rank:2886]
Shane Larsen
United States
Salt Lake City
UT
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Since I first entered the hobby, BGG users have been searching for a quick-playing civilization game.

Is this possible? Is it a paradox? Can you have a "true" civilization experience in 60 minutes?

What's the game that accomplishes, or comes closest to accomplishing this for you?
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2. Board Game: Catan [Average Rating:7.21 Overall Rank:293] [Average Rating:7.21 Unranked]
Shane Larsen
United States
Salt Lake City
UT
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I love this one, and it comes up all the time:

What's the best game that's like Catan, but not Catan?

Why do people repeatedly ask this question? Is there such a game you would recommend for someone that requests this?
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3. Board Game: Friendly Fire Pack 1 [Average Rating:8.15 Unranked] [Average Rating:8.15 Unranked]
 
Shane Larsen
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Salt Lake City
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I often see requests for "friendly interaction, but not cooperative".

Is this really possible? There's the idea of 'coopetition' that comes from games like Brass, Terra Mystica, and so forth. But behind it all, if players were truly trying to win, couldn't one argue that there is no "friendly interaction" in a truly competitive game?

Thoughts?

What is your favorite game with a "coopetition" mechanism?
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4. Board Game: Thematic Boggle [Average Rating:4.43 Unranked]
Shane Larsen
United States
Salt Lake City
UT
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Many are in search for the perfect "thematic Euro" game.

This is where things get a bit more gray because both schools of thought are very subjective. But in general, the two ideas often clash, creating a paradox of sorts. Thematic games usually sacrifice smooth mechanisms in a game, right? Euro games put the theme aside to accomplish smooth mechanisms at the cost of thematic explanations, right?

Homework:

1. Name a game that you think does this mashup best.
2. Name a game that gets praise for this, but you don't think deserves the praise.
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5. Board Game: Abstracts [Average Rating:6.35 Unranked]
Shane Larsen
United States
Salt Lake City
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A thematic abstract?

Similar to the previous post. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this and hear your arguments for games that might belong in this illusive niche.
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6. Board Game: 18?? [Average Rating:6.83 Unranked] [Average Rating:6.83 Unranked]
Shane Larsen
United States
Salt Lake City
UT
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People commonly ask for a good starting point into 18xx.

Does such a game exist? I know which games get most praise in this regard: 1830, 1846, and Poseidon. But do any of them actually create a good game for a beginner gamer? Or is it just the best there is to work with?
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7. Board Game: Auction [Average Rating:5.15 Unranked]
Shane Larsen
United States
Salt Lake City
UT
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The two-player auction game.

This one is less illusive. I know they exist. I just want to hear what y'all's favorites are and why.
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8. Board Game: Cult Classic [Average Rating:5.72 Unranked]
Shane Larsen
United States
Salt Lake City
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Moving away from items inspired by recommendation requests...

Name one game from the last 3 years you think has the best chance of becoming a classic; meaning it will still be highly regarded--BGG top 50, let's say--in 20 years.
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9. Board Game: Crows Overkill [Average Rating:6.55 Overall Rank:6777]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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Highlights of games played 5/26-6/1:

I'm continuing to work my way through my latest batch of Japanese acquisitions; to get them all to 5+ plays, I'm down to needing just 7 more plays collectively.

TROLL (Joe=4) - I'm continuing to really enjoy this. I'm not good at it, but it's quite fun.

Crows Overkill (Joe=4) - Talk about overused themes - killing birds so that they don't make a noise, since when they do you'll have to leave the red light district. OK - it's really the sliding requirements - beautifully done, and functional - that make the game. It's light, but it does have a place in my collection.

Guns & Steel (Joe=4) - Mentioned earlier in this geeklist - I like this one, but I am concerned that there's not enough variability in the game. Not _very_ worried, but it's the only issue I see that might impact my enjoyment of the game.

Clocktowers (Joe=14), Wolf im Schafspelz (Joe=8), & Lines of Action (Joe=18) - I'm continuing to work through the games I own, but haven't played since 2013. Got the list down to 6 this week...

Minerva (Joe=2) - I continue to see this as a game which could really grow to be a favorite for me.

Energy City (Joe=1) - Pretty good for a promotional game. It's no Hotel Life, though.

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10. Board Game: Murano [Average Rating:7.27 Overall Rank:849]
John Bandettini
United Kingdom
London
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Monday at LoB

As Monday was a holiday, it was all day gaming rather than just the evening.

Started with my second play in a week of Greed. I had not played it for a while and really enjoyed both plays. This game had a lot higher scores than the last one, but the result was the same, a win for me. I managed some good manipulations of holdings in the last few rounds. I managed to get quite a few extra investment markers onto one of my holdings, then played the action that removed the holding from the game, but game me $15,000 per investment marker. (They are usually only worth $10,000). Then finished with a card that caused every other player to discard one marker from each holding. Evil fun.

Next on to Thunder Alley and I really messed it up. We were planning to play 5 player, which meant 3 cars each. So we got it ready but the fifth player was a no-show so we played with four, but that should have meant four cars each, however we played with just three each.

With too few cars on the track it really changed the way the game played. Normally for most of the game you will have two or three large groups and at most three or four stragglers. With too few cars the groups soon split up and a lot of cars got lapped. It makes you realise how important game testing was to come up with the right numbers. The other players all said they enjoyed the game, but I knew the game we played was a shadow of the real thing. The lack of cars on the track really did make it lucky and random in a way the proper game isn’t. (Even though a lot of people feel it is any way).

One of our players decided to go and play something else, so the three of us remaining decided to play Murano. This really does seem to be one of the undiscovered gems of 2014. There was very little hype about it, which is a little surprising given that the designers previous game Village was very successful. Personally I like this a lot better than Village. The other two players had never played giving me quite an advantage.

They were very reluctant to use their Glass Factories, and lose points, while I used mine quite a bit. (I had one of the gem scoring bonus cards). The game ended with me around 15 points behind the other two, then onto character scoring. I had four character cards and four deployed Gondoliers compared to their two each. One of them wondered if I might score around 20 points form my four cards, I said no it was going to be a lot more. In fact it was 42 points, which won me the game quite comfortably.

Next it was all change as the two guys I had been playing with had to leave. Four of us then sat down to play my favourite game Kingdom Builder. Two of the players were new to the game and boy did they play slow. I like playing fast and tend to lose interest if a game takes too long. Five minutes waiting for a 15 second turn is just not fun. I lost all interest, came last and was just glad to get it over with. I was quite thankful that the two slow players decided to leave.

Two new players replaced them for a game of Dominion: Seaside. I don’t think I have ever played Seaside as a standalone game before. I picked up a few cards that gave me extra coins, actions but mostly went big money and was quite lucky bunching my silver and golds together and even surviving several cutpurse attacks to win the game.

Finished off the day with a game of Bucket King 3D. This is obviously a game of high skill, because I am terrible at it. I think pretty much every time I have played I have been the first player eliminated. Four player game, I was eliminated the other three players tied for the win.

Tuesday night at LoB

Back to a normal, ie shorter session on Tuesday. We started out with Castles of Mad King Ludwig. When I first played this game I was awful at it, it took at least 5 or 6 games to get my first win. Then for a while I started winning most of the time. At the moment I seem to be stuck in a rut of losing by the narrowest of margins. For the second time in the last three plays, I lost by one point.

It was a fairly close game, at least between three of us. One of the players rather foolishly went for the different room types and different room sizes bonus cards. These are two of the hardest bonus cards to score and doing them tends to lose opportunities to pick up other points. He failed on both and trailed by quite a margin.

Still enjoying the game but it’s time I won by 1 point.

I had bought a couple of marmite games along (Games people seem to either love or hate) and we then played one of them. Personally I don’t get the hatred some people have for Guildhall. I enjoy it, there is a lot more interaction than your usual euro. (Maybe that is the issue). I rode my Tax Collectors to victory. I managed to get 15 points from my Tax Collectors without ever completing a Guild. Once I had four tax collectors in play, I used a hunter to swap a card with the discard pile, losing a tax collector. Then I played a tax collector for 3 points, then gave away the hunter as the price for scoring the Tax Collector and then repeat a few times.

We then played Unexpected Treasures, which while it was reasonable fun did not quite live up to it’s name. Every player has a hand of cards 0 to 5. Each turn there are a number of treasures available. Players play a card to grab the treasures, you get to take a number of treasures equal to the card you play (0 allows you to steal from other players). Each player has a turn number and in case of more than one player playing the same card, only the player with the lowest turn number gets to take treasures, though they then swap turn numbers, so you can’t just hang on to the tie-breaker.

You then use treasures to buy cards that are worth points at the end. The very first turn all four players played 3. But we got better. Once I got the number 1 turn marker I just kept playing 5. This meant although I got last pick and generally got the worse treasures, I was consistently getting more treasures than anyone else. It nearly worked as I finished a couple of points behind the winner, who just happened to be the player who had the 1 turn marker way back on turn 1. So was the only player to get anything from the first round.

My second marmite game of the evening was Smash Up. Although I enjoy it, I can see at least how people can dislike this one. For all of its cute funness it can be quite a nasty game and it can run a bit on the long side and also feel a bit random. However none of these things really bother me and I also think once you get a good handle of the different factions good play will beat lucky play.

I was the Zombie Supper Spies, battling against the Alien Dinosaurs and the Shape Shifting Pirates. The game was really close and two players hit 15 points on the same game. The rules say play another turn if there is a tie. So we played on and after the next base scored all three of us were tied on 17 points. I finally managed to win the game by playing an over run card that stopped anyone playing a minion to a base that was nearly ready to score. Luckily no one was able to destroy the over run (having already used most of those kind of cards), so I effectively had two turns in a row at that base and scored it to win the game. It was good fun, honest.

Saturday at the UK Games Expo

Managed my first ever visit to the UK games expo on Saturday. It’s the largest games show in the UK and happens around the end of May every year. It was held at the Hilton Metropole Hotel, which is part of the National Exhibition Centre, just outside of Birmingham. I drove there and it was around 90 minutes each way.

The first show of any kind I have been to in a long time. It has trade halls, competitions, seminars etc. The Hotel was a large one and the Expo filled all of it, with any spare flat surface soon having a game played on it.

I spent most of the morning wandering around the trade halls, saying hi to old friends and meeting some people I had only ever known previously through BGG. Of course I bought a few things. The Front Nine, which allowed me to meet designer Nick Case. Snowdonia: The Necropolis Railway & Neuhauser Bockerlbahn from my friend and the designer Tony Boydell. I also bought Orléans, Red7 and Start Player. Quite restrained really.

After a long queue for some lunch, I managed to find a few of my fellow LoBsters. So we went looking for somewhere to play some games. One of my friends cheekily asked in a room set aside for the Yu-Gi-Oh! Trading Card Game tournament if we could use one of their spare tables and they surprisingly said yes. Although I had not bought it at the expo, I had taken Paperback with me as I had not had a chance to play it yet. So we started with that. I had described it as Scrabble the deck building game and I think that is close enough. Most of the cards have one or two letters on them. On your turn you make a word with the cards you have (hopefully) and that generates income that allows you to buy more cards. The cards are not all letter though, there are books that you can buy, which give victory points. The book cards also count as wildcards when making a word, which can be very helpful, but they don’t give you any income.

A lot of the cards also have special abilities. One I had that helped me win the game, was a ‘B’, but the card next to it could be used as a wildcard, but you still got the income. Very nice.

We also played Clubs, Stop Go (a Japanese hipster game which does not seem to be in the database yet.) and Red 7. Unfortunately it was then time to head home. Already looking forward to next year.
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11. Board Game: Thunder Alley [Average Rating:7.39 Overall Rank:557] [Average Rating:7.39 Unranked]
Froggy McFrogface
United States
FORT COLLINS
CO
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When green is all there is to be, it could make you wonder why. But why wonder? I'm green, and it'll do fine: it's beautiful, and I think it's what I want to be.
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May 25 - 31

Thunder Alley: May 25 - Memorial Day party. The first game of the day was Thunder Alley, 5P. Adam won, Matt and I tied for second.


Yardmaster Express: We played this 3 times - a fun, quick game. I won 1.


Concept: Again looking for a fast and fun game. I've had great success with this one.


Yardmaster: Still waiting for our wives to finish their movie, we played the full version of Yardmaster.





Glory to Rome: May 30 - On an annual multi-family camping trip, some games were played. First, Glory to Rome, 2P. I do really like this game, and managed to eek out a 1 point victory after building the Catacombs at an opportune moment.


VivaJava: The Coffee Game: The Dice Game: Next up was VivaJava: The Dice Game. I had Kickstarted this, but never learned to play it, so it nice having someone who could teach. After lagging early, my wife won handily.


Roll for the Galaxy: Played as a nightcap. I'd played once before, but grokked it much better this time. Didn't win, but played much better.





Twilight Struggle: May 31 - This was an intentional teaching game for my friends Lorraine and Aaron, who had bought TS but were struggling to learn it. We played the first three turns (Early War) with both our hands exposed, so I could talk them through what to play and why. Without actually striving to do so, I won at the end of Turn 5, but it was a positive experience for them, and they will play it again themselves very soon.
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12. Board Game: 51st State [Average Rating:6.88 Overall Rank:975] [Average Rating:6.88 Unranked]
Chester
United States
Temple
Texas
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Games Played (5/24 - 5/30)

Coconuts x2
I really love this game. My kids love this game. We've gotten a lot of enjoyment out of this simple idea. I also love the fact that a professional hockey player designed it.

1830: Railways & Robber Barons x1
Enjoyed playing with the local group. It was a fun game. I played for the long game, and came up a little short when there was a bankruptcy (at least it wasn't me).

51st State x1
We had the great pleasure of hosting Alex and his family visiting from New Mexico. It was wonderful to see old friends (well, they're not THAT old). Alex and I played this in a 3p game. I think we discovered later that we'd gotten one rule wrong. But even when played correctly I found this one pretty disappointing.

Its not that easy to see what buildings other players have in front of them. And despite playing on buildings, the level of interaction wasn't what I'd hoped. And in the end, its just a race to points. Too much like Race for the Galaxy and not enough like Glory to Rome.

Lewis & Clark x1
This is a fairly recent Euro title that my wife just really loves. We've had success introducing it to several groups of players. It was fun to sit down with 4 players who all knew what they were doing. Tense and fun game.

Onward to Venus x1
Another off my "unplayed" list. It is a Martin Wallace game with a playful and attractive theme, but in the end its a bit too simplistic to hold much replay value. It works fine for what it is, and I can see playing it again a few times.

With Dr Who, there was a huge imbalance between the Dr's forces and the bad guys, such that some strategies just would never occur. Here, I'm not convinced that the common threat mechanism will work to full effect (they just aren't very likely to occur). I suppose it could be an element of group think, and that its well balanced, but my impression is that its a really cool mechanism that just doesn't quite work.

The Princes of Florence x1
Played after 1830. What a pleasure to find a game group that enjoys some of the slightly older but excellent games. This was a fun one, and I was too cheap with the jesters to my own demise.
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