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Subject: 'Wizard's Castle' Turtling Strategy rss

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Mr G
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I came up against a very nice turtling strategy using a few new cards. Gave me a hernia trying to think about how to beat it. Any and all ideas welcome!

The basic set up is

Wizard stays in home corner
Ballista
Mana Crystal
Mana Crystal
Iron Golem
Iron Golem
Wizard's Tower (with hurl boulder)

Golems Guard
Ballista and Tower shoot.
Mage deals with any issues.

I was running an old school BM and figured Cervere might be helpful but the Mage was force holding her in place, tanglevining, etc.

Nasty business all round really.
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Michele Lupo
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Hello fentum happy to find you here!

I'm curious about what the community would do about this strategy, because i really think i have almost all my bases covered in this build.

There is a particular counter to my strategy that i figured i'm weak to, but i'm not going to reveal it myself!
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Mr G
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Wolf88 wrote:
Hello fentum happy to find you here!

I'm curious about what the community would do about this strategy, because i really think i have almost all my bases covered in this build.

There is a particular counter to my strategy that i figured i'm weak to, but i'm not going to reveal it myself!
Ho Ho Ho

That set up has me worried as it seems strong unless you are running a counter build. Let's see what greater minds come up with.

Does that counter of yours include teleports? Elusive stuff?
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Michele Lupo
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Well ok i'll spoil it!

It's a fairly easy trick actually, though it's mana intensive.

Fighting me in my home terrain is almost impossible, i roll just too many dice, so the easiest counter is to move the fighting elsewhere.

As Beastmaster I'd summon 2 grizzly bears and some Foxes/Cats exactly at distance 4 from the wizard's castle. Then when the setup is ready run 2 squares and do a 12 mana teleport to stick Wizard in there. You'll draw Ballista and Tower fire but the Golems won't be able to touch you. If you were "fast" also cast a jinx on the mage to delay the inevitable teleporting away.
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Mr G
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Jah, jah Wolfie, but you will have a wand with teleport by then and will dance the night away...
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Michele Lupo
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Yeah but at least you'll have a fighting chance!

You can put teleport on a wand too. If you get off an attack for every teleport you make and then i have to teleport again to run away, you are ahead on the race.

You could also buff a super creature, teleport, do a single attack, then "reload" while i run away and teleport me again later. Remember, Dissolve is range 1.

I have to say however that I run this build precisely because it's hard to counter, even if you see it coming!
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Mr G
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Yes, it looks a tough build. I can see how an air wizard could beat it, with teleport wands and the like, but a generalist, flexible book might struggle with such a strong defence.

I am thinking that I would need to get that wizard out of the corner and sort him out away from his conjurations. A fire build with zone attack might give an alternative, but again, that would be a specific counter build.
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Michele Lupo
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The main problem is that as soon as you come in range 2 to attack I eat a single spell, then I immediately teleport you inside and go all hulk smash. If i have enough Mana saved up i could even teleport you inside and cast Metal Wall to keep you in permanently.

It's way easier to pull someone in and keep him there than running away in this game.

Your best bet if you want an attack spell solution is an elemental wand with a 3 range spell attached, like Thunderbolt or Hurl Meteor.
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Mr G
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I can only dream of such legendary spells...
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Michele Lupo
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fentum wrote:

I can only dream of such legendary spells...
Thunderbolt is in the core set
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Bill Nye
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fentum wrote:
I came up against a very nice turtling strategy using a few new cards. Gave me a hernia trying to think about how to beat it. Any and all ideas welcome!

The basic set up is

Wizard stays in home corner
Ballista
Mana Crystal
Mana Crystal
Iron Golem
Iron Golem
Wizard's Tower (with hurl boulder)

Golems Guard
Ballista and Tower shoot.
Mage deals with any issues.

I was running an old school BM and figured Cervere might be helpful but the Mage was force holding her in place, tanglevining, etc.

Nasty business all round really.
T1: QC Cheetah Speed then activate it and move then quick cast a spell relevant to your play style.
T2: Forgo QC at the start and then move again toward the other Mage and cast whatever necessary spell to pertinent to your style. Then QC a telleport on the wizard.
T3: Hopefully you have initiative and wont have to worry about seeking dispell, but if they do do it, then it expends one of their actions.
T3(a) You lose your enchantment, and this sucks. So you can double back up by putting out a new one and and triggering it during the action phase. And max out the distance and then move to attack.
T3(b) You had initiative and play another teleport down. And make them choose. This may be an OMG waste to some, but it will force this mage to consume actions, but here the opposing mage is out of range and when you move to attack in turn three then you are out of range of those big meanies. And with that second teleport down you can keep control up and force the mage to defend himself.
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rock lobster
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Im confused as to the precise turn-order for this WizardTowerTurtle strat.

If you double Engine before Golem(s), we both cast a turn 2 Iron Golem in your corner (TurboTeleport Opener*). Forcing you out of your template, or else. Likely it'll just come down to DICE and the quality of the Melee Support.

*
1: sprint; Force Push (self)
2: teleport 2 spaces FK (FarKorner); full-cast Iron Golem
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Michele Lupo
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Depends on who am i facing.

Usually I cast double Mana Crystal first turn and Golem + Ballista the second turn.

This gives me a 5 dice advantage over anyone who wants to invade my home. In case of TurboTeleports i can either forego the ballista and summon an Earth Elemental the next turn or simply teleport away the opponent's golems while i summon more.

If the opponent has initiative and runs immediately OR is an Air Mage, I might consider skipping the crystals and hoard the 1st turn mana to unload Earth Elemental + Wizard's tower/Ballista the second turn.

If the opponent summons in my square something too big/annoying to handle, Turn to Stone takes good care of it until i deal with the enemy mage.

When i feel that i have enough forces to kill the enemy mage in one or two turns i Teleport him inside my Castle at most though and the golems grind him down.

The long-term plan against a completely passive opponent who doesn't ever leave his square is 4 Iron Golems, 1 Earth Elemental, 2 Gorgons 2 Gargoyles.

Then a Hurl Meteor Elemental Wand and enough Channeling to get 12 mana per turn. Slowly advance until i pin the opponent at range 3 and Meteor him to death.
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Marc Bennett
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i know a great counter for this strategy, however im currently not at liberty to say
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Michele Lupo
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Klaxas wrote:
i know a great counter for this strategy, however im currently not at liberty to say
Does it include some unspoiled cards maybe? I DID spoil mine after all.
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C. E. Freeman
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rainofwalrus wrote:

Im confused as to the precise turn-order for this WizardTowerTurtle strat.

If you double Engine before Golem(s), we both cast a turn 2 Iron Golem in your corner (TurboTeleport Opener*). Forcing you out of your template, or else. Likely it'll just come down to DICE and the quality of the Melee Support.

*
1: sprint; Force Push (self)
2: teleport 2 spaces FK (FarKorner); full-cast Iron Golem
If you do this you will be in the opposing mages corner just like you say, however you will be at a disadvantage. You just spent 3 actions positioning yourself and 1 action casting an iron golem to match your opponents. Your opponent on the other hand was able to spend 3 actions improving his position/situation and 1 casting an iron golem matching yours. In this scenario I would much rather be in the position of your opponent.
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Marc Bennett
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Wolf88 wrote:
Klaxas wrote:
i know a great counter for this strategy, however im currently not at liberty to say
Does it include some unspoiled cards maybe? I DID spoil mine after all.
believe me, if i could say, i would. but unfortunately my lips are sealed.
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Michele Lupo
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Tacullu64 wrote:
rainofwalrus wrote:

Im confused as to the precise turn-order for this WizardTowerTurtle strat.

If you double Engine before Golem(s), we both cast a turn 2 Iron Golem in your corner (TurboTeleport Opener*). Forcing you out of your template, or else. Likely it'll just come down to DICE and the quality of the Melee Support.

*
1: sprint; Force Push (self)
2: teleport 2 spaces FK (FarKorner); full-cast Iron Golem
If you do this you will be in the opposing mages corner just like you say, however you will be at a disadvantage. You just spent 3 actions positioning yourself and 1 action casting an iron golem to match your opponents. Your opponent on the other hand was able to spend 3 actions improving his position/situation and 1 casting an iron golem matching yours. In this scenario I would much rather be in the position of your opponent.
Exactly, i made this build with 2 goals. I want to be able to counter both Temple-Spam and Turbo-Rush. The opponent teleported and cast a big creature, I have either 2 Crystals a Golem and a Ballista or 2 crystals and Elemental OR 2 Golems.

Then i Turn to Stone whatever big creature you summoned, tanglevine you and start pummeling. Or other variations like Mage Tower and Force Hold etc etc.

Klaxas wrote:
Wolf88 wrote:
Klaxas wrote:
i know a great counter for this strategy, however im currently not at liberty to say
Does it include some unspoiled cards maybe? I DID spoil mine after all.
believe me, if i could say, i would. but unfortunately my lips are sealed.
I'm sorry, did you just chime in the conversation to say that you cannot say anything?
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Tobiasz Kozlowski
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What makes anyone to move out of their corner to your castle?
Its a draw tactic, not a win unless i miss something.
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Michele Lupo
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tkozlow wrote:
What makes anyone to move out of their corner to your castle?
Its a draw tactic, not a win unless i miss something.
That's naive thinking.

Assume that my opponent doesn't leave his starting square. Distance 5 squares.

When i decide that the force i bring to the table is overwhelming enough, I move all my creatures 1 square forward and rush my mage 2 squares. I do this in a turn when the opponent has initiative. Next turn, with my initiative i move forward 1 square, cast a 12 mana teleport to get the enemy mage into my zone and use the QC to hold him in place (maybe by casting a Spiked Pit beforehand or with Tanglevine or Force Hold, you get it.

Alternatively, when i reach critical mass I simply abandon the tower and the Ballista and start slowly advancing with my 4 golems 2 gorgons and 1 earth elemental army. Protected by Gargoyles and an Elemental Wand with Hurl Meteor so i can safely attack from range 3.
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rock lobster
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fuzZy and NOT unbeatable.

teleport/counter-teleport wont matter if I get better rolls. if you turn-to-stone my Turbo-Golem/Demon/Angel, you may have just lost tempo.

against Turbo-style, the crystals are a huge liability.

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C. E. Freeman
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rainofwalrus wrote:
fuzZy and NOT unbeatable.

teleport/counter-teleport wont matter if I get better rolls. if you turn-to-stone my Turbo-Golem/Demon/Angel, you may have just lost tempo.

against Turbo-style, the crystals are a huge liability.

Not fuzzy this time. You have already dug yourself a big tempo hole using 3 actions rushing across the arena while your opponent is spending his 3 actions preparing for your arrival.

That is not to say you can't come back and win, just that by rushing across the arena while your opponent prepares has put you behind.

Nothing is unbeatable.
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Tacullu64 wrote:
rainofwalrus wrote:
fuzZy and NOT unbeatable.

teleport/counter-teleport wont matter if I get better rolls. if you turn-to-stone my Turbo-Golem/Demon/Angel, you may have just lost tempo.

against Turbo-style, the crystals are a huge liability.

Not fuzzy this time. You have already dug yourself a big tempo hole using 3 actions rushing across the arena while your opponent is spending his 3 actions preparing for your arrival.

That is not to say you can't come back and win, just that by rushing across the arena while your opponent prepares has put you behind.

Nothing is unbeatable.
No strategy is unbeatable, but you have to counter it in the right way if you want to be successful. I made this build to counter exactly this kind of double teleport rush play, so i'm very comfortable with the opponent trying to get in my face. Casting a Turn to Stone on Adramelech or on a big Angel is tempo-neutral because of their enormous mana cost. I try not to cast it on a Vampiress if i can avoid it for example.

As I said often my main, weakness is that if the opponent doesn't graciously come into my square but tries to pull me out of it, i'll be needing a lot of positioning control, and that's very mana and action intensive, expecially since i'm not running Huginn in the latest build.

Another big weakness that i have to deal with is Thunderbolt on a stick, it's annoying against the golems and the stun is horrible.
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Michele Lupo
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rainofwalrus wrote:


against Turbo-style, the crystals are a huge liability.

Depends if i'm expecting the enemy mage in my corner or a turbo super-heavy creature. If i'm expecting a creature then i need the crystals because that extra mana will have to go towards the Turn to Stone Upkeep.

If i'm expecting the enemy mage himself (like i'm playing against Forcemaster for example) I will probably open the game with a 1st turn Gorgon Archer/Iron Golem and a Teleport Trap on my square
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