GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters at year's end: 1000!
9,383 Supporters
$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
17 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
9 Posts

Jambo» Forums » Rules

Subject: Using a Guard on your own turn rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Moe45673
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Is it allowed? Say you play something, then your opponent plays an animal card "allowed to be played on an opponent's turn", are you allowed to play a guard card in return? Guard cards also say "may be used on an opponent's turn"

Keep in mind, I may be thinking about Spirit of the Ancestor's card for people cards..... Just played my third game yesterday so bit of a newb
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Moe45673 wrote:
Is it allowed? Say you play something, then your opponent plays an animal card "allowed to be played on an opponent's turn", are you allowed to play a guard card in return? Guard cards also say "may be used on an opponent's turn"

Keep in mind, I may be thinking about Spirit of the Ancestor's card for people cards..... Just played my third game yesterday so bit of a newb

No, it is to be used on your opponent's turn as it costs no actions.

The only Animal card I find that can be played on your opponent's turn is Antelope, which is an expansion card.

So this shouldn't come up, especially in just the base game.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moe45673
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
True, but I play with both expansions and only ever have



Thanks, that's how I played it yesterday, but in the game prior, each of us would keep blocking each other's block, like how "Just Say No"s in Monopoly Deal can be used.

Whether Spirit or Guard cards, I like the idea of you being allowed to block your opponent's block. I might houserule it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Moe45673 wrote:
True, but I play with both expansions and only ever have

Alright, well you were in the base game forum and said you only played 3 times.

The point still remains: the only Animal that can be played on your opponent's turn is Antelope so that is the only situation where this comes up that I can see. The confusion is the word "may" as it implies it can also be used at other times, which it can't.

Spirit of ancestors is much more explicit and was in an expansion so I think they cleared the wording up. I believe the intent of Guard is the same (just one deals with animals while the other deals with people). But there are a lot more People cards that are played on opponent's turns so it also makes sense that this was more clear.
1 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moe45673
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Right, so to clarify: One cannot use the Spirit card on a card like Rainmaker, or a guard card on a card like Antelope?

As for why I posted in the base game forum: Because I couldn't remember if it was an expansion only scenario (though I know the Spirit cards are from one of the expansions)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark L
United Kingdom
Belfast
Northern Ireland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm going to disagree with Brian. I think you can use a guard in your own turn in this case.

NB: I don't have the second expansion (which presumably is where the Antelope card is from) so maybe the text on that card contradicts me. But I'll assume not, otherwise I doubt there could be any debate on this!



The Spirit of the Ancestors says "Play this card on your opponent's turn". I see no ambiguity there; no possibility that it could be played on your own turn.

But the Guard says "You may play this card in your opponent's turn, when he plays an animal card." The phrasing is different. The use of "may" might be taken to imply that there is some other time you could play it.

On the other hand, you could argue that since in this case your opponent is not playing an animal card during his own turn, the condition for the Guard is not met -- "in your opponent's turn, when he plays an animal card".

But I think that's because when the Guard card text was created, there were no animal cards that could be played out of turn. The purpose of the Guard is to protect against animals, and I can't imagine the intention of introducing an animal that can be played out of turn was to make the Guard useless against it!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
xipuloxx wrote:
I'm going to disagree with Brian. I think you can use a guard in your own turn in this case.

NB: I don't have the second expansion (which presumably is where the Antelope card is from) so maybe the text on that card contradicts me. But I'll assume not, otherwise I doubt there could be any debate on this!



The Spirit of the Ancestors says "Play this card on your opponent's turn". I see no ambiguity there; no possibility that it could be played on your own turn.

But the Guard says "You may play this card in your opponent's turn, when he plays an animal card." The phrasing is different. The use of "may" might be taken to imply that there is some other time you could play it.

On the other hand, you could argue that since in this case your opponent is not playing an animal card during his own turn, the condition for the Guard is not met -- "in your opponent's turn, when he plays an animal card".

But I think that's because when the Guard card text was created, there were no animal cards that could be played out of turn. The purpose of the Guard is to protect against animals, and I can't imagine the intention of introducing an animal that can be played out of turn was to make the Guard useless against it!

Antelope says: Playing the Antelope costs no action. Play this card during your opponent's turn after he uses a utility card. Take this utility card, adding it to your hand.

I think you are proving my point even though you disagree. The Spirit of the ancestors is basically the same as the guard but switching it from Animals to People. It IS very specific that you use it on your opponent's turn (the "may" is dropped). It was also an expansion card so it was given time to fine tune the language.

So a couple things to support my argument:
1) At the time Guard was worded, no Animal was played on your opponent's turn so there was no need to be specific on the language.

2) The "may" is being permissive by breaking the rules - playing on someone else turn. It is also indicating option: play it or not. Not play it on your opponent's turn or your own.

3) You also have the potential of a loose translation (maybe not, I don't know German) where may might not be the correct translation.

4) A similar card was introduced in the first expansion that worded it more clearly. But unlike Animals, People actually work on opponent's turns quite frequently so it needed to be more clear. Again, at this point, no Animal attacked on your opponent's turn.

5) With the 2nd expansion now we have an Animal that does that. Long way from when Guard first came out.

So I am sticking by my spears on this one. Unless Rüdiger rules otherwise.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moe45673
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Good discourse and I am no less confused. I am more inclined towards Brian that you cannot play it on your own turn. I may or may not houserule it otherwise, as my understanding of the strategy within solidifies and which makes it a more intense unbroken game
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark L
United Kingdom
Belfast
Northern Ireland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sorry, Moshe, I may be about to confuse the issue more...

ColtsFan76 wrote:
Antelope says: Playing the Antelope costs no action. Play this card during your opponent's turn after he uses a utility card. Take this utility card, adding it to your hand.

OK, thanks. So there's nothing there that indicates it would be immune to the use of the Guard, except for the fact that it's used on your opponent's turn instead of your own.

Quote:
1) At the time Guard was worded, no Animal was played on your opponent's turn so there was no need to be specific on the language.

Sure, I agree. But when the second expansion came out, if the Antelope was unlike every other animal in that the Guard couldn't be used on it, I would have expected a statement to that effect!

The fact that there isn't such a statemant implies to me that the Guard can be used on it as normal, and the word "may" was considered sufficient to indicate that the Guard isn't limited to being played on your opponent's turn.

Quote:
2) The "may" is being permissive by breaking the rules - playing on someone else turn. It is also indicating option: play it or not. Not play it on your opponent's turn or your own.

I don't think you can definitely say it forbids playing it on your own turn. As I said, when the card was created that option didn't exist, but the wording on the card doesn't seem to me to rule it out.

Quote:
3) You also have the potential of a loose translation (maybe not, I don't know German) where may might not be the correct translation.

That's possible too! If anyone has the German version of the game, I'd be interested to know what the cards say in it (with translations, preferably, as my own German is very poor).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.