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Android: Netrunner» Forums » Rules

Subject: Zaibatsu Loyalty: When can I rez it? rss

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John Choong
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I have question here. In one game, I was playing Jinteki and I have an unrezzed Zaibatsu Loyalty installed. When my opponent play Infiltration, does his effect of his resolved first which will prevent me from rezzing Zaibatsu Loyalty and pay for its ability to stop my opponent exposing the card? Or that I can rez Zaibatsu and use its ability before my opponent can look at a face-down installed card?

I am a little confuse with the window of operation here.

 
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D Tse
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theres not normally an action window there in reaction to his play, unlike in magic where theres interrupts and things.

But in this case, the card specifically says you can res it in response to the runner exposing a card and thus prevent the exposure...thats the whole point of the card. So yes, you res it when he plays infiltration.

i think i got that correct!
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Nite Wolf
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Yes you can rez ZL before you have to expose a card.
This is an exception for the time structure of turns. You can normally only rez before the runner's turn begins or after a runner action, not during (excluding runs, obviously). But card-text overrides rules.
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Steven Tu
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Nitewolf wrote:
No you can't rez ZL before you have to expose a card.
See the time structure of turns. You can only rez before the runner's turn begins or after a runner action, not during (excluding runs, obviously).


No, you can rez ZL at any time a paid ability can be used, and there are MANY windows of opportunity to do that.

Usually, cards can't be rezzed "in response" to runner actions, as correctly stated.

But there's no reason really at all to rez ZL before it's needed - it says specifically on the card you may rez it when the runner is about to expose a card - so do it only for that situation. Or else you've given away your secret!
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Nite Wolf
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Wow, how did you get my unedited comment? It was literally just 30s on the page before I remembered the text on the card.
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D Tse
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hes like a ninja!
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Steven Tu
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Nitewolf wrote:
Wow, how did you get my unedited comment? It was literally just 30s on the page before I remembered the text on the card.


C-C-C-Combo breaker XD
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Martin Smith
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Nitewolf wrote:
Wow, how did you get my unedited comment? It was literally just 30s on the page before I remembered the text on the card.


You feel my answer before you see my answer, if you see my answer at all
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Jesse LeBreton
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This ZL card seems a lot like Nisei MK II to me. As I understand it these two cards basically stop the runner from seeing your server card. One just ends the run, the other prevents him from exposing it. Same thing isn't it if both are still hidden? There doesn't seem to be any difference between the two to me other than the cost. It's a bit more expensive to store up an advancement token on Nisei than it is to just pay one credit which ZL requires.
 
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Gregory Pettigrew
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Lebatron wrote:
This ZL card seems a lot like Nisei MK II to me. As I understand it these two cards basically stop the runner from seeing your server card. One just ends the run, the other prevents him from exposing it. Same thing isn't it if both are still hidden? There doesn't seem to be any difference between the two to me other than the cost. It's a bit more expensive to store up an advancement token on Nisei than it is to just pay one credit which ZL requires.


Expose and Access are different effects.
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Brian Moore
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Lebatron wrote:
This ZL card seems a lot like Nisei MK II to me. As I understand it these two cards basically stop the runner from seeing your server card. One just ends the run, the other prevents him from exposing it. Same thing isn't it if both are still hidden? There doesn't seem to be any difference between the two to me other than the cost. It's a bit more expensive to store up an advancement token on Nisei than it is to just pay one credit which ZL requires.


Hi Jesse,

I see from your other thread you're inquiring about Nisei. Just to clarify what the difference is, there are cards the runner can play to expose what's in a server without having to run it. Nisei wouldn't do anything against those cards but Zaibatsu Loyalty would. Nisei is very different. The runner can run all the way through a server paying to break ice as they go and you can then, after they break the last piece of ice, use the counter on a scored Nisei and say, 'nope, you're not getting in, the run ends!' while cackling like Dr. Evil. If you paid attention to their money, you can do this when they cannot afford to run through the server again which gives you a free turn to finish scoring whatever that card is.
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Jesse LeBreton
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I think I see, but couldn't ZL be triggered after the runner has burned a bunch of credits as well? That's why they seem the same. You could break all the ICE and then when you want to steal the possible agenda the Corp could say nope your not getting a look at it by using ZL. End of run and this happening at the same time appear identical at this point. In both cases the possible agenda says hidden after the runner made an expensive run.


But this leads to my last question before I run to work. I was going to ask about Infiltration. Gain 2 credits or expose 1 card. Is this really as powerful as it appears? One could look at a remote server to see if it is an agenda or a trap?
 
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Andy Mills
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Lebatron wrote:
I think I see, but couldn't ZL be triggered after the runner has burned a bunch of credits as well? That's why they seem the same. You could break all the ICE and then when you want to steal the possible agenda the Corp could say nope your not getting a look at it by using ZL. End of run and this happening at the same time appear identical at this point. In both cases the possible agenda says hidden after the runner made an expensive run.


ZL does not prevent access. It prevents the use of any effect that uses the word "expose". The looking at cards after a successful run is called "accessing" cards, not "exposing" them.

Quote:
But this leads to my last question before I run to work. I was going to ask about Infiltration. Gain 2 credits or expose 1 card. Is this really as powerful as it appears? One could look at a remote server to see if it is an agenda or a trap?


Indeed! It's pretty good. And that peeking is exactly what ZL prevents.
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Jesse LeBreton
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It's beginning to make sense now. Thanks guys.
 
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In fact everything on Zaibatsu Loyalty is an exception to the normal timing rules. You couldn't rez it in response except it says you can, and then you couldn't use its prevent ability in response except the core rulebook says prevent/avoid effects can. :D
 
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