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Axis Empires: Totaler Krieg!» Forums » Rules

Subject: Devastated hexes and supply rss

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Chris Buhl
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If devastation markers are present in Axis cities, are those cities still supply sources? Can supply be traced through them?
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Jeremy Fridy
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No and Yes.

14.12 Devastation
Immediately after a phasing Bomber unit is successfully placed in a Land Hex, it must be flipped over to its Devastation side.
An Atomic Devastation marker is placed per the Project Success: A-bomb Political Event (15:30). Atomic Devastation markers are identical to Devastation markers in all respects, except that once placed they are never removed.
Effect: If a Devastation marker is in a hex, all of the following applies for that hex:
If it is a Clear or Desert hex, it is considered to have Rough terrain instead. Hexsides do not change.
Replacements or repatriated units cannot be placed in it.
It cannot be used as an Air Base or Naval Base.
It cannot be used as a Supply Source.
Port-to-Port movement cannot be conducted into or out of it.
For movement purposes only; ignore all Road or Rail lines in it and on its hexsides.
If it is a Strategic Hex, during the next Victory Segment (7.1) it is considered under the control of the faction that devastated it.
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Carlos Márquez Linares
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I am sorry, but where can you find all that?

In my TK:AE rulebook 14.12 is Failure [command, supply] and 15.30 is Pacific Commitment. 7.1 is Delay segment.

I can't find those restrictions you mention for devastated hexes. Some of them were present in the original TK!, but back then there were no air or naval bases. I thought the only effect of devastation markers was that described in 14.10:

"Effect: An Axis Strategic Hex with an Allied Devastation marker is controlled by the Allied faction that placed the marker. An Allied Strategic Hex with an Axis Devastation marker is controlled by the Axis faction."

What am I missing? blush
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Chris Buhl
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Denethor wrote:
I am sorry, but where can you find all that?

In my TK:AE rulebook 14.12 is Failure [command, supply] and 15.30 is Pacific Commitment. 7.1 is Delay segment.

I can't find those restrictions you mention for devastated hexes. Some of them were present in the original TK!, but back then there were no air or naval bases. I thought the only effect of devastation markers was that described in 14.10:

"Effect: An Axis Strategic Hex with an Allied Devastation marker is controlled by the Allied faction that placed the marker. An Allied Strategic Hex with an Axis Devastation marker is controlled by the Axis faction."

What am I missing? blush
I agree, I can't find those rules sections. Am I missing an errata?

Here's an answer from my post on CSW:

Rule 14.10 lists the effect of Devastation, which is that the hex is "controlled" by the faction owning the devastation marker; that (IMO unfortunately-named) term affects a few rules:

The hex counts towards them for victory purposes.
Control is required to place a French or Italian colonial as a replacement.
You can't trace supply into a City/Port hex in an enemy country unless it's under friendly control.
You have to control every city and partisan base in a country/dependent/region in order to use 15.25 Minor Country Created on it.

(The use of an underlined "control" is important in the rules, as it distinguishes the above definition from more colloquial uses.)

So, assuming we're talking about the Axis attempting to trace supply from or through hexes containing Allied devastation markers, devastation markers don't prevent supply from being traced.
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Freitag wrote:
No and Yes.

14.12 Devastation
Immediately after a phasing Bomber unit is successfully placed in a Land Hex, it must be flipped over to its Devastation side.
An Atomic Devastation marker is placed per the Project Success: A-bomb Political Event (15:30). Atomic Devastation markers are identical to Devastation markers in all respects, except that once placed they are never removed.
Effect: If a Devastation marker is in a hex, all of the following applies for that hex:
If it is a Clear or Desert hex, it is considered to have Rough terrain instead. Hexsides do not change.
Replacements or repatriated units cannot be placed in it.
It cannot be used as an Air Base or Naval Base.
It cannot be used as a Supply Source.
Port-to-Port movement cannot be conducted into or out of it.
For movement purposes only; ignore all Road or Rail lines in it and on its hexsides.
If it is a Strategic Hex, during the next Victory Segment (7.1) it is considered under the control of the faction that devastated it.
This is the rule from the "old" TK (1999), not the current version AE:TK (2011)
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Jeff Grossman
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In the 2011 rules:

14.10 Devastation
This marker is placed via successful Devastation Marker Placement (2.2.3.5) or the Project Success: A-bomb Political Event (15.33). Once placed, Devastation markers are never removed.
Effect: An Axis Strategic Hex inside Germany with an Allied Devastation marker is controlled by the Allied faction that placed the marker. An Allied Strategic Hex inside Britain, France, or Russia with an Axis Devastation marker is controlled by the Axis faction.



Control does not impact tracing lines of supply in this case, though.
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Patrick Parker
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I don't have my rules in front of me but, if memory serves, a devastation marker gives control of the hex to the player who played it, but this can be trumped by an opposing land unit being in the hex (I think that a land unit trumps everything for control purposes).

So, if the Allies put a devastation marker in a German city, then they control it and it could not be used a supply source, unless it were occupied by an Axis ground unit, in which case the Axis would control it and the city could be used as a supply source.

Of course, the Allies could park an air force on top of the devastation marker to prevent the Axis from moving troops into the city. This would guarantee Allied control.
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D Clevenger
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patparker wrote:
I don't have my rules in front of me but, if memory serves, a devastation marker gives control of the hex to the player who played it, but this can be trumped by an opposing land unit being in the hex (I think that a land unit trumps everything for control purposes).

So, if the Allies put a devastation marker in a German city, then they control it and it could not be used a supply source, unless it were occupied by an Axis ground unit, in which case the Axis would control it and the city could be used as a supply source.

Of course, the Allies could park an air force on top of the devastation marker to prevent the Axis from moving troops into the city. This would guarantee Allied control.
I don't think this is right. I think having a unit in a hex negates an EZOC but not a controlled hex.

10.2 handles the situation of a city in an enemy country that must be in friendly control to be a part of supply path but it doesn't address a city in your home country that is under enemy control.

10.1 is clear that for a city to be a supply source it must belong to that country. So presumably if the city is controlled by an enemy it can't be a supply source.

I would if a devastated city can't be a supplysource it can't be a path for supply either. But I'll admit it isn't clear.

I think the bomber so devastates the hex it can't be used for supply.
 
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Carlos Márquez Linares
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As I see it, devastation markers imply control of the hex by the owning faction for victory purposes only, even if an enemy unit is on the hex. I view devastation as the permanent denial of a target for economic purposes, rendering it useless to its original owner. The city is still there, as are enough roads and railroads to move troops and supplies about.

I will concede devastation markers are rather awkward elements in the game and in my opinion should be limited to strategic hexes in major countries.
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Thomas Prowell
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As others have pointed out, there appears to be some confusion between Devastation in old TK (1999) and new AE:TK (2011). The only thing Devastation markers do in new AE:TK is let you count an enemy strat hex as being under your control. They don't do anything about preventing an enemy unit from tracing supply or placing replacements in that hex.
 
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