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Subject: what are abstract games? rss

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nate ben-porat
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just wondering becuase i saw this word a lot. thanks!
 
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Brian A
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Nate, I now accurately guess which threads are yours before I even pan my eyes to the right.

Not a good sign.

 
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nate ben-porat
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Propo Pod wrote:
Nate, I now accurately guess which threads are yours before I even pan my eyes to the right.

Not a good sign.



what you want me to say?...
 
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Brian A
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nothing.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/search.php3?title=&designerid=&...
 
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nate ben-porat
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Propo Pod wrote:


ah.....?
 
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Richard Irving
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freezing chicken wrote:
just wondering becuase i saw this word a lot. thanks!


Abstract means "without a theme", but like the term "boardgames" which includes many games that do not have a board, the term has a more specific meaning. A strict deinition of an abstract game (particularly among fans of "abstract games") is a perfect information game with minimal theme (or none at all).

Perfect information means no random or hidden elements during play. No dice. no tile draws, no cards, etc. except possible after an initial set up. All players have perfect information about the "game state", they can in theory know every option possible for all players throughout the game, not only what moves they can do, but possible their opponents have in response, how they can respond to their opponent's response, etc.

Prototypical abstract games are games like Go, Hex, Checkers/Draughts, the Gipf Series, Chinese Checkers/Halma, Twixt, Pente, Othello/Reversi, Connect 4, Blokus, etc.

Chess is an abstract game with minimal theme. Although it has a theme of ancient warfare, the pieces do not simulate ancient soldiery. Games like Through the Desert, Cathedral, Pueblo, etc. also are similar.

Think of a board (usually with a regular square or hex grid) and pieces. And that's it.

Games with random elements even though may have no theme: Backgammon, dominoes, Ingenious, Take it Easy, etc. are definitely a gray area. Some purists will say they are not, but they are often referred to as abstracts.

However, card games which use traditional decks are NEVER referred to as abstract games, even though they are always just as themeless.

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Will (JR) Todd
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Propo Pod wrote:
Nate, I now accurately guess which threads are yours before I even pan my eyes to the right.

Not a good sign.



God forbid that a 13 year old kid asks questions in a language that's not even his own without being criticized for it. The lack of tolerance on this site is starting to grow. THAT'S not a good sign.

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nate ben-porat
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thanks Richard for refering to my question and answering so fully.
 
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Philip Thomas
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Richard has it nailed. In addition many games with some degree of theme are labelled 'abstract' or 'themeless', usually by critics. Tigris and Euphrat is a good example...
 
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T. Rosen
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Here's what some of them look like:





 
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Brian A
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Hidalgo wrote:
Propo Pod wrote:
Nate, I now accurately guess which threads are yours before I even pan my eyes to the right.

Not a good sign.



God forbid that a 13 year old kid asks questions in a language that's not even his own without being criticized for it. The lack of tolerance on this site is starting to grow. THAT'S not a good sign.



Easy tiger. I meant I spend too much time here. Didn't have a lot of time to respond and elucidate after that, for which I am sorry and at least posted a link, but geez, please step outta my throat!
 
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Stephen Roney
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There is some discussion of what games are abstract strategy and what aren't in these recent geek lists (be sure to read the comments):

Abstract Strategy - Where do you draw the line?:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist.php3?action=view&listi...

and Joey's Top Ten Abstract Strategy Games:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist.php3?action=view&listi...
 
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Philip Thomas
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For what it's worth, Brian, I too read your post as an attack on Nate...I guess its all a question of tone
 
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Brian A
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Understood Philip. Looking back, there is an intimation in my response that there is something... memorable... about Nate's posts that make them so easily identified. And perhaps I must admit what is making them memorable in my head isn't exactly memorable in the "can't wait to read the newest insight" way of some threads and lists by fellow geeks like yourself.

cool

So in way, I am guilty as charged. Please, all, aim for the head and make it quick.

But the "not a good sign" remark... that was for me, not Nate.
 
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Ed Holzman
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As grey traces of dawn tinge the eastern sky, the three travellers, men of Willowdale, emerge from the forest's shadow. Fording the river, they turn south, journeying into the dark and forbidding lands of The Necromancer...
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My first reaction to Brian's reply was also negative. Folks tend to assume the worst when it comes to reading forum replies. For the most part, their suspicions are normally well-warranted. It seems like the easy anonymity provided by a screen name and the lack of non-verbal communication cues make flame wars downright ubiquitous these days. When one can hide behind a name like "Bearcat89" and nobody knows exactly where you live, you may become emboldened to act in a non-typical and abusive fashion. Therefore, thin skins develop because you become used to seeing caustic replies. I don't know that the "good old days" of the BBS were any more civil, but it sure seems that way.

BTW, I spend way too much time here, as well. shake
 
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nate ben-porat
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thanks for everyone that answered my question and for everyone that gave me comments. i know i'm not ok when i don't read my posts again before i post i just get lazy. blush i'll work on it now.

thanks all,
nate
 
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Virre Linwendil Annergård
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(sigh, I can't keep out of these discussions)

Now grammer and things like that have an area of dificulty to them
when you are not using your native language. And that litle flag up
by the corner on Nates post isn't from an English speaking country now
is it? (And note, neither is mine) I do see that people might feel
a bit let down by bad English but take in mind this site is international
so you are going to get bad English, whilest I think most of us would
be happy for constructive replies about how to correct and get better we
or at least I want it to be constructive.
 
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Ed Holzman
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As grey traces of dawn tinge the eastern sky, the three travellers, men of Willowdale, emerge from the forest's shadow. Fording the river, they turn south, journeying into the dark and forbidding lands of The Necromancer...
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virre wrote:
(sigh, I can't keep out of these discussions)

Now grammer and things like that have an area of dificulty to them
when you are not using your native language. And that litle flag up
by the corner on Nates post isn't from an English speaking country now
is it? (And note, neither is mine) I do see that people might feel
a bit let down by bad English but take in mind this site is international
so you are going to get bad English, whilest I think most of us would
be happy for constructive replies about how to correct and get better we
or at least I want it to be constructive.


Amen, to that brother! Nate's use of English far surpasses anything I might try to write in Hebrew. Same goes for Victor and Swedish. I know very little about Sweden beyond meatballs and Blindside.
 
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