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Subject: House Greyjoy Expansion Discussion rss

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Dan Enders
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I decided to start a new thread to discuss the House Greyjoy expansion I'm working on. Having the one house in one thread should keep it a little more manageable in case anybody new joins the discussion. I never thought I would actually see anything come of this project, but now that I'm actually holding physical copies (which look incredible!) of the Baratheon and Targaryen decks, I have to finish the Greyjoys.

The Greyjoys were in the works way back when I started this project, but I could never really settle on a deck for them. There are quite a few problems in the process of making a House Greyjoy expansion, but these were the major two:

1) Character limitations. House Greyjoy simply hasn't had the screen time dedicated to it that the other houses have, which made coming up with enough "named" characters for a deck very difficult. Since the HBO decks prominently feature named characters, padding a deck with generic characters felt very underwhelming.

2) Deck theme. A lot of my early builds of the Greyjoys wound up either being a pale imitation of another deck's theme, or something very mundane (location control! really good at saving characters!).

So, with those problems in mind, I figured I'd post two (or more, if I make any) variations on the Greyjoys, and we can discuss/vote on which ones we think are actually worth pursuing or how/what we should change.
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Dan Enders
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Greyjoy deck A, version 1.

Deck A focuses on a "mechanic" currently not featured in the other HBO decks. While other decks specialize in certain challenges, the Greyjoys introduce the concept of 'milling' your opponents' decks. "Milling" a player in "Game of Thrones" isn't technically a win condition, as a player doesn't lose the game for having an empty deck, but consistently discarding their cards will hopefully put you on the path to winning by discarding key cards to an opponent's strategy.

The Greyjoys are a very weak deck: their highest printed STR is 3, and only two of their characters can boast that strength. They have no cost reduction, and are incredibly limited in their ability to save their characters. Since the Greyjoys will not beat you head to head, they need to rely on raids and guerilla tactics - denying you cards through discard effects, which will hopefully even the playing field for them. House Greyjoy's characters are very synergistic; they all build on this theme, and the deck features some interesting character combos. The Greyjoys also hold very few lands - the majority of their Location cards are actually Warship cards. With the help of Warships, weaker Greyjoy characters can gain a boost to their STR or an ability like Stealth. Some Warships can even become Characters on the chance you find yourself with an empty board.

Like the other two decks, very few of these cards are made from scratch (I think only 1 is, actually). In fact, I'm pretty sure the Greyjoys have the least modifications - a tweaked wording here and there of course, but otherwise I think the only major thing is that (obviously), I renamed most of the cards (especially characters).

Spoiler (click to reveal)


Characters (26)

[U] Theon Greyjoy x3
2 cost. 2 STR. Lord, Ironborn. Military, Power. Dominance: If Theon Greyjoy is in your dead pile, each opponent discards the top card of their deck. Response: After a unique character is discarded from the top of an opponent’s deck, put Theon Greyjoy into play from your dead pile.

[U] Yara Greyjoy x3
4 cost. 3 STR. Lady, Ironborn. Military, Power. Stealth. Response: After you win an unopposed challenge, stand Yara Greyjoy. Then, each opponent discards the top card of their deck.

[U] Balon Greyjoy x3
5 Cost. 3 STR. Lord, Ironborn. Miltary, Intrigue, Power. Renown. Response: After an opponent declares a challenge against you, each opponent discards the top card of their deck. Draw a card for each location discarded this way.

[U] Dagmer Cleftjaw x2
3 cost. 2 STR. Ironborn, Ally. Military, Power. Any effect that discards 1 or more cards from an opponent’s deck discards an additional card.

[U] Black Lorren x1
3 cost. 2 STR. Ironborn, Ally. Military, Intrigue. Response: After you win initiative, discard the top 2 cards of each opponent’s deck.

[U] Wex x1
-1 Cost, 1 STR, Intrigue. Ironborn, Ally. Response: After you win an Intrigue Challenge in which Wex participated, discard the top card of the losing opponent’s deck. If it is an event, Wex claims 1 power.

[U] Stygg x1
-2 Cost, 1 STR, Power. Ironborn, Ally. Response: After you win a Power Challenge in which Stygg participated, discard the top card of the losing opponent’s deck. If it is a location, Stygg claims 1 power.

[U] Aggar x1
1 cost, 1 STR. Military. Ironborn, Ally. Response: After an opponent plays an attachment, discard Aggar from play to discard that attachment.

[U] Gelmarr x1
1 cost, 1 STR. Military. Ironborn, Ally. Response: Discard Gelmarr to cancel the effects of an opponent’s location card.

[U] Drennan x1
2 cost. 2 STR. Ironborn, Ally. Military. Response: After you win a Military challenge in which Drennan participated, discard the top card of the losing opponent’s deck. If that card is a character, Drennan claims 1 power.

Ironborn Looters (Generic Cheap Character) x3
1 cost. 1 STR. Ally. Military. Response: After Ironborn Looters enters or leaves play, discard the top card of each opponent’s deck.

Ironborn Marauders (Generic 'Army' Character) x3
3 cost. 2 STR. Army. Military, Intrigue. Stealth. Response: After you win an unopposed challenge in which Ironborn Marauders participated, discard the top 2 cards of the losing opponent’s deck.

[U] Ros (Neutral) x1
-2 Cost, 1 STR, Intrigue, Power. Ally. Any Phase: Kneel Ros to choose and an opponent’s character. Until the end of the phase, treat the chosen character as if its printed text box were blank (other than traits).

[U]Varys x1
Same as HBO game.

[U]Littlefinger x1
Same as HBO game.

Locations (9)

[U]The Iron Throne x1
Same as HBO game.

[U]King's Landing x1
Same as HBO game.

[U] The Seastone Chair (Corpse Lake) x1
1 cost. Pyke. After a triggered effect discards 1 or more characters from the top of an opponent’s deck, claim 1 power for your House. Limit this effect 3 times per round.

Iron Fleet Scout x2
1 Cost. Warship. Challenges: Pay 1 gold to turn Iron Fleet Scout into a character with 2 STR, a Military Icon, and a Power icon until the end of the phase.

Iron Fleet Warship x2
1 cost. Warship. Challenges: Kneel Iron Fleet Warship to give an attacking House Greyjoy character +2 STR until the end of the challenge. If you win the challenge, discard the top card of the losing opponent’s deck.

Iron Fleet Longship x2
1 cost. Warship. Challenges: Kneel Iron Fleet Longship to give an attacking House Greyjoy character Stealth until the end of the challenge. If you win the challenge, draw a card.

Attachments (5)

Seized x2
3 cost. Condition. Attach to a non-Unique location. Take control of attached location and discard all other attachments attached to it.

The Iron Price x3
1 cost. Condition. Response: After 1 or more cards are discarded from a player’s deck, attached character gets +1 STR and Renown until the end of the phase. Limit 1 per character.

Events (10)

Take Hostage x2
Response: After a character card is discarded from an opponent’s deck, put that card into play under your control. At the end of the phase, return that character to its owner’s discard pile.

We Do Not Sow
Response: After you win a Power challenge, discard the top X cards of the losing opponent’s deck, where X is the amount by which you won the challenge. Limit 1 “We Do Not Sow” per round.

Disciples of the Drowned God x2
Response: Stand a Greyjoy character you control to cancel a triggered effect.

Nighttime Raid x2
Choose an attacking Greyjoy character you control. Until the end of the phase, that character gains Stealth. If you win the challenge, choose and discard 1 attachment from play.

What is Dead May Never Die x2
Response: Save an Ironborn character from being killed. Each opponent discards 1 card from the top of their deck.


The "milling" version of the Greyjoys is very interesting to me. It's a big theme in their LCG decks, and I think it could make for some very interesting games in the HBO version. However, I do see some problems with it. If the milling doesn't work in your favor, you're pretty screwed. So many of your characters are weak, and I can see this deck being pretty easily steamrolled by a powerhouse deck like Starks or Baratheons. Going against Lannisters will pretty much gaurantee that you have no cards in your hand (but Starks sort of suffer from this as well). On the flip side, if the milling works too well, your opponents might not have fun.

Greyjoy deck B will change it up, and focus on a different theme/mechanics. Instead of being a mill deck, deck B will have the Greyjoys focusing on winning challenges unopposed. This one is still in the works.
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Tom Howard
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Looking great so far!!

I'll be watching this thread carefully...
 
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Zoe T
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Looks interesting!
What happens in this game if your deck is exhausted? Do you shuffle your discard pile?
I'll also be watching closely
 
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Dan Enders
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Greyjoy Deck B, version 1.

The second Greyjoy deck functions quite differently from the first, despite featuring some of the same cards. This deck focuses on winning challenges unopposed, with a sub-theme focusing on your Warship cards.

This deck has more options than the Deck A, and with a decent distribution of Abilities and more average STR ratings, it should probably put up more of a fight against the other decks.

Again, this deck is almost all re-wordings/re-namings, with one or two (if any) uniquely designed cards. The closest one off the top of my head is the Salt Wife, but I think there is a Greyjoy card that does something similar, and either way, you won't see Salt Wife breaking the game (especially in this deck).

Speaking of the Salt Wife, I did something with the Greyjoys that I haven't with the other expansion decks: this is the first deck that doesn't feature a powerful Army card. Like the Lannister deck, the two generic slots are filled with supporting characters. You'll need to rely on your main characters to bring the high STR to the fight.

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Characters (26)

[U] Theon Greyjoy x3
3 cost. 3 STR. Lord, Ironborn. Military, Power. Stealth. After you win an unopposed challenge, the losing opponent must choose and discard a location or character (cannot be saved).

[U] Yara Greyjoy x3
3 cost. 3 STR. Lady, Ironborn. Military, Intrigue. Renown. Yara Greyjoy does not kneel to attack an opponent with 3 or more non-character cards in his or her discard pile.

[U] Balon Greyjoy x3
4 cost. 3 STR. Lord, Ironborn. Military, Power. Renown. Balon Greyjoy gets +1 STR if you control a kneeling Warship location.

[U] Dagmer x2
3 cost. 2 STR. Ally, Ironborn. Military, Intrigue. Stealth. Response: After you win an unopposed challenged in which Dagmer participated, discard the top 2 cards of the losing opponent’s deck.

[U]Black Lorren x1
3 cost. 3 STR. Ally, Ironborn. Military, Power. Response: After you win an unopposed challenge in which Black Lorren participated, he claims 1 power.

[U] Wex x1
3 cost. 2 STR. Ally, Ironborn. Military, Power. Response: After you win a Military or Power challenge in which Wex participated, put a Warship location from your hand or discard pile into play. Limit once per round.

[U] Stygg x1
1 cost. 1 STR. Ally, Ironborn. Military. Response: Discard Stygg from play to cancel the effects of a location just triggered.

[U] Aggar x1
1 cost. 1 STR. Ally, Ironborn. Military. Challenges: During a challenge in which you are the attacker, kneel Aggar to have that challenge considered unopposed if you win by 4 or more total STR.


[U] Gelmarr x1
1 cost. 1 STR. Ally, Ironborn. Military. Response: After an opponent palys an attachment card, discard Gelmarr from play (cannot be saved) to discard that attachment from play.

[U] Drennan x1
1 cost. 3 STR. Ally, Ironborn. Military, Power. If you do not control a Warship location, kneel Drennan.

Ironborn Marauders x3 (Generic Cheap Character)
1 cost. 1 STR. Ironborn. Response: After you win an unopposed challenge, Iron Islands Brigand gains a Power Icon until the end of the phase.

Salt Wife x3 (Generic Cheap Character)
1 cost. 1 STR. Ally. Intrigue. Response: Kneel Salt Wife to reduce the cost of the next Ironborn character you play by 1.

[U] Ros (Neutral) x1
-2 Cost, 1 STR, Intrigue. Ally. Any Phase: Kneel Ros to choose a non-unique character. Until the end of the phase, treat that character as though its printed text box were blank (except for traits).

[U]Varys x1
Same as HBO game.

[U]Littlefinger x1
Same as HBO game.

Locations (10)

Iron Fleet Raider x1
1 cost. Warship. Challenges: Kneel Iron Fleet Raiding to choose an attacking Ironborn character. Until the end of the challenge, that character gets +2 STR. If you win the challenge, discard the top card of the losing opponent’s deck.

Iron Fleet Longship x1
2 cost. Warship. Challenges: Kneel Iron Fleet Longship to choose an attacking Ironborn character. Until the end of the challenge, that character gains STEALTH. If you win the challenge, draw a card.

Iron Fleet Reaver x1
2 cost. Warship. Response: After you win an unopposed challenge, kneel Iron Fleet Reaver to have the losing opponent choose and discard a card from his or her hand.

Iron Fleet Flagship x1
1 cost. Warship. After you win an unopposed challenge, kneel Iron Fleet Flagship to claim 1 power for each unique Greyjoy character that participated in that challenge.

Iron Fleet Warship x3
1 cost. Warship. Limited. Dominance: Iron Fleet Warship adds 1 STR to your dominance count. +1 Income.

[U] The Seastone Chair x1
3 cost. Iron Islands. Response: After you win an unopposed challenge, choose one of the following: Claim 1 power for your house, add 2 gold from the treasury to your gold pool, or draw 1 card. Each option may only be chosen once per round.

[U]The Iron Throne x1
Same as HBO game.

[U]King's Landing x1
Same as HBO game.

Attachments (4)

Seized x2
2 cost. Condition. Attach to a non-Unique location. Take control of attached location and discard all other attachments attached to it.

Cowed x2
0 cost. Condition. Attached character cannot be declared alone as an attacker or defender.


Events (10)

What is Dead May Never Die x2
Response: Save a Unique House Greyjoy character from being killed. That character claims 1 power.

We Do Not Sow x2
Challenges: Pay 2 gold to turn all Warship locations you control into characters with STR equal to their printed cost, a Military Icon, and a Power Icon, until the end of the phase.

Nighttime Raide x2
Challenges: Choose an attacking Greyjoy character you control. Until the end of the phase, that character gains stealth. If you win the challenge, choose and discard 1 attachment from play.

Shore Leave x2
Challenges: Pay 1 gold to choose and stand a kneeling character. Until the end of the phase, that character cannot be declared as an attacker or defender.

Assault of the Kraken x2
Response: After you win an unopposed challenge, you may initiate an additional challenge of the same type. This challenge must be the next challenge you initiate. If the additional challenge is opposed, neither player wins the challenge.


These two decks are all I have currently. I've been toying with the idea of doing a deck C that is word for word/name for name conversions, but that has two big problems: 1) lack of named show characters in the game, and 2) I don't really like a lot of the cards for the show characters that even DO show up.

If these two decks don't really gain traction, we could also try coming up with a deck completely from scratch, but I'd prefer to avoid that for balance.
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Justin
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Will there be a pork sausage card? ninja
 
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Zoe T
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astroglide wrote:
Will there be a pork sausage card? ninja

No, that's in a house Bolton deck I'm working on
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Dan Enders
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Zoett wrote:
astroglide wrote:
Will there be a pork sausage card? ninja

No, that's in a house Bolton deck I'm working on


I'm going to get back on looking at that! I'll be away for a week for a wedding, so I'll probably have plenty of downtime waiting around in airports.
 
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steve zhang
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Hi Dan, Tom and Zoe,

Just wanna say a big thank you for all your hard work for creating these decks.

Most of my friends are fans of the show but they are not avid gamers. They enjoyed the HBO version but we craved for a multiplayer option and of course more varieties of decks. I was THIS close to checking out on Amazon for 2 Core sets + Greyjoy + Targaryen, but I know it might be too complicated for them to sink their teeth into it and it is quite an investment. Then I came across these threads. You guys are amazing.


Anyway. One question. The melee plot card Condemned By the Realm is fairly strong IMO compared to the rest of the melee plots. It generates 5 gold, has the fastest initiatives among all melee plots, 1 claim value, and is still able to kill off a character. When we play it, we houseruled it in the way that the claim value is 0.
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Tom Howard
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Glad you're getting some great use out of 'em!

Condemned by the Realm is a direct copy of an existing card from the LCG, which is where it got its stats from. I haven't had the opportunity to play with that card yet myself, so I can't speak from experience regarding its balance... though I do see the potential for it to backfire on you. After all, you don't simply get to kill off one of your opponent's characters.

As the card says, you must choose someone else at the table, and THAT person gets to kill off a character of his choice. That person could just as easily decide to kill off one of your own characters. So in a way, it seems like there's a bit of a balance factor built into the card itself. If Player 1 plays Condemned by the Realm and everyone else at the table thinks it's too powerful of a card, then those other 3 players can simply agree that if they're picked, they'll kill off one of Player 1's characters.

Perhaps you're already playing it this way... but I just wanted to make sure. Of course, if you still want to house rule it, go right ahead! Thanks for your feedback.
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steve zhang
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Oh we actually did overlook the fact that you could kill off other people's character. Thanks so much for the clarification. We still need to get used to reading the card text very literally.

Since we are on this I have another question. Margaery Tyrell and Daenerys' Blood Brothers (or whatever they are called) both need to be discarded in order to take their effects. So do I need to put them into play first or i can use them like event cards to play them straight from my hand? The card text does not mention "from your hand" IIRC so I am a bit confused.

Thanks again in advance!
 
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Dan Enders
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Hi!

For cards like Margarey and the Bloodriders, you need to put them into play first.

Excluding claim effects from Intrigue challenges, or when it specifies hands elsewhere, discarding is almost always something in play: Varys/Jorah/Daario "discard" an ally from play, meaning it isn't killed (and it can be an opponents!). Cards like Margarey and the Bloodriders go to the discard pile, and can be brought back through other card effects.

As is a constant theme in these threads, I apologize for not being more active - I've been teaching the game though, so hopefully someone will playtest these Greyjoy decks with me soon.
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steve zhang
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Hey no need to apologize at all. You have already done more than enough. I'm sure everyone in this community really appreciates what you are doing
 
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Jaca Slaby
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Hi .. I recently dowloaded, translated to Polish, and printed Targ and Bara decks. They look great and work as advertised

My kudos to Tom for creating them - what can I say? Goood job

Printstudio - excelent service with free worldwide shipping (>30$)
I took more expensive linen cards .. they look even better than the real thing.. but original cards are plain... so - maybe better is to take the standart version (to mix the plots )


I also write to encourage Dan - to finish and playtest Greyjoys - if I can vote - deck B "Warships" is way to go!


aha... so far.. Baratheons seems to be the strongest... but in 4way melee... you never know... is it politics, strategy, tactics, cards or fate

 
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Dan Enders
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Thanks for the encouragement! Sadly, I've had a hard time getting my group to test the Greyjoys, but I'll be introducing the game to my students soon (a lot of them are big fans of the books), so I'll use them as my guinea pigs.

I'm sure I'll get much more support from the friends once the next season rolls around, they're always in a GoT mood when the show is on. Plus, its looking like we might spend some more time with the Greyjoys next season, so I'll get some more inspiration!
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Liz Burton
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Dan,

I really hope you make this deck! I just played the Baratheon and Targaryen decks tonight for the first time and they were great!

Two thoughts:
1) Maybe there will be more named House Greyjoy characters after Season 4 of the HBO show? Not sure that you want to wait so long to make the deck, though.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
No, it'll probably be Season 5 if that covers the fourth book. Well, maybe after Season 5 you can make a Martell deck


2) I object to naming a character Yara, even though that was the name change on the show for whatever ridiculous reason.
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Tom Howard
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manutd03 wrote:

2) I object to naming a character Yara, even though that was the name change on the show for whatever ridiculous reason.


Yeah, I think it was because they didn't want viewers to mix up the names of Osha and Asha. Reading it on the page it's easy to separate the two, but I admit they sound pretty similar.
 
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J V
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Is this dead?















(What is dead may never die).
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It may rise again, harder and stronger, but there isn't much quality visual material to use yet.
When we were working on the other expansion decks, we were delayed by the near complete absence of clear images of the other two dragons untill the final episode. When the new series comes around, I expect that we will get some more viable Greyjoy pictures to use, if only of warriors and ships.
More importantly, I haven't play tested this yet, and Dan hasn't really finalised either of the proposed decks. But, I have had time to start playing this game again, so I would say to wait until the new season before declaring it truly dead : )
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Brodie
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I like the idea of a Greyjoy deck trying to win challenges unopposed; it seems in-theme for raiders and reavers, and fits with events from the books/show (a notable Season 2 event, and the Greyjoy Rebellion backstory which indicates that they lose hard when directly opposed by powerful forces). Very cool!

I'd add a clause to Theon's discard ability which says "(or reveals his hand if he cannot)" to prevent cheating and to give it extra oomph if it can't fire.
 
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τὰ ὄντα ἰέναι τε πάντα καὶ μένειν οὐδέν
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No new Greyjoys cast in the coming season, so it looks like this is off for another year.

A Martell deck could be on the horizon, though!
 
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Liz Burton
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Bahimiron wrote:
No new Greyjoys cast in the coming season, so it looks like this is off for another year.

A Martell deck could be on the horizon, though!


Sad llama. But hey, we might get 3-4 more decks anyway, so that could be great!
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