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Subject: Private Security Force clarification rss

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Sebastian Zarzycki
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Just a doublecheck here as someone recently asked me this during game night and I wasn't 100% sure. What is the exact trigger condition for this scored agenda to gain the ability?

a) when runner is tagged *when and only then* agenda is scored and this ability stays for the rest of the game?
b) *whenever* runner is tagged and only for that period of time (loses the ability once tag is cleared)

Because the card says nothing about runner being "tagged when scoring" I'm almost certain it's b) but please confirm - thanks.
 
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Brodie
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It's b. The card text on PSF doesn't even become active until it's in the Corporation's score area; when its text is active, it gains the [Click] ability when the Runner is tagged, per the card itself.
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Guido Gloor
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It's b) indeed, yeah.
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Beyer
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http://netrunnercards.info/rules/#rop59
Quote:
While an agenda is in the Corporation's score area, it is active and adds its agenda points to his score.


http://netrunnercards.info/rules/#rop10
Quote:
Active: An active card's abilities affect the game and can be triggered.


It's scored it's active. It's active you can use the ability whenever the use-clause is fulfilled.
 
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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Yes, I know obviously when the agenda is active. It was just a clarification about gaining the additional ability. It's not by default, it's gained, so hence the problem. But it seems that everyone agrees on this. Thanks.
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Ben Finkel
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rattkin wrote:
Yes, I know obviously when the agenda is active. It was just a clarification about gaining the additional ability.


I think the reason people are pointing out the active state is to compare it to a rezzed card that you've installed. If PSF were an asset, would you have had the same question? Compare with Dedicated Response Team.

For what it's worth, I'd have preferred if said something like "[Click]: Do 1 meat damage. Use this ability only if the runner is tagged," instead of this weird text-gaining language.
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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If it was asset, I guess the question would still be valid. It's - again - a matter of timing vs wording. For the asset it would be the same - whether the tag has to be present while unrezzing (the same as scoring for agenda) or later during the game, when asset is unrezzed (agenda scored).

I've learned that if it's not written, then you can safely assume the most direct explanation, employing occam's razor. But, yes, some cards could probably gain from a slight rephrasing to avoid confusion.
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Kevin Jones
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I'm not exactly certain how you came to the assumption of a), but here is the progression of actions things go in my head.

1) Corp advances Private Security Force 4 times.
2) Corp scores Private Security Force agenda.
3) Whenever the runner is tagged, the corp can spend one click to do one meat damage.
3a) Ability is lost if Private Security Force is forfeited.

I feel like I might be missing something obvious, but that's the flow of events. And, as you mentioned, Occam's Razor is the best way to interpret most rules. I don't mean to sound like I'm talking down to you, but I like to take a step back and reexamine things to make certain I got the right interpretation.
 
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Beyer
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rattkin wrote:
...It's not by default, it's gained, so hence the problem. But it seems that everyone agrees on this. Thanks.

I quote the rules that explains the answer not because the former answers were wrong but because a rule reference is the only way to answer a rules question. If someone else actually uses the search function because he/she has the same question you did, they could get an answer as well as an opportunity to familiarize themselves with the rulebook. Out of principle I add a rules reference to any topic I come across, if it hasn't been posted already.

I can see how it seemed weird to only have those two references in a post as if I was deliberating on something. I was merely trying to improve on the quality of your thread AKA contributing

If there is ever doubt about when the text on an agenda applies there is also this:
http://netrunnercards.info/rules/#rop59
Quote:
Scoring Agendas
When the number of advancement tokens on an agenda is equal to or higher than its advancement requirement, the agenda is fully advanced and the Corporation can score it. The only times the Corporation can score an agenda is right before his turn begins, or after he completes an action.

To score an agenda, the Corporation turns it faceup and places it in his score area, resolving any conditional abilities on the agenda that use the language “When you score.” The Corporation cannot score an agenda until it is fully advanced. Scoring an agenda does not cost a click and is not an action.

While an agenda is in the Corporation's score area, it is active and adds its agenda points to his score.


The underlined passage is the important one. If that text isn't on the card the effect will be in play until the end of the game or as soon as a use-clause written on the card is met. If the agenda has 'when you score' on it you apply that effect immediately given the instructions on the agenda.
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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Fair enough. You're both right and my thanks for the improving of the thread answer. I agree that conditional "when scores" is important here. It's just that some cards gets slightly "out of the pattern" sometimes and thus raising the eyebrow during interpretation.

As a reminder, the question didn't originally come from me and I was almost certain about the right answer. Just had this 10% of uncertainty I wanted to get rid of I tend to have this with several cards and it's always better to get a quick feedback from community, even *despite* reading and knowing the rules.

 
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