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Subject: Why ask God? rss

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Malice O'Conner
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Here is something that troubles me. People tell me I should pray and ask god... To ask God for anything, in my opinion, is pointless. There are so many things in the world today that if God were to do anything those would probably be on the top of the list.
In my own personal opinion, it isn't that God doesn't care or doesn't exist, it is simply just on us all to change/fix/help ourselves. God would have stopped Destiny Norton from being killed and raped as a little girl, or would've fixed other major issues, but as we all know - it doesn't happen. Some say miracles happen to that I say hogwash, it may be miraculous but it is simply because of belief and will that the miracle occurred. I don't mean the minor miracle of saving you from being smashed to bits at the point you fell asleep at the wheel, I mean the cured of deadly cancer miracles. So often I have listened to constant advice of "pray for _______" or "ask God" when it doesn't seem to work, billions of people pray everyday, and ask God each night for whatever the deem right and so often is it resolved otherwise, or left unresolved. So often we look at the heavens and ask "Why God, why?" and yet no answer will pour down from the sky. It was simply in our human hands to fix/change/help and we toss it on God's shoulders to do it. What about our own responsibility. Just thinking aloud on this subject. I am sure there are different thoughts to this. Keep in mind that this is first and foremost my own personal opinion and not meant to be anything else but that.
 
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Paul DeStefano
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So don't.
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Because she knows all the answers?
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Moshe Callen
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I am not a Christian and so your conception of G-d may be markedly different than mine. Yet from a Jewish point of view your attitude towards G-d makes a fundamental error. Namely, you presume that G-d has a limited ability to deal with things and so dealing with your issues would somehow distract G-d from larger issues. This simply is not the case by the nature of G-d.
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Zé Mário
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What does trouble you, after all? I don't believe in the god ___ and the fact that people pray to him is the least of my worries.

You seem convinced that asking for something is worthless, so why would you?
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I once played Trivial Pursuit with God, and he couldn't answer any of my questions either, even though we played the family version, and he got all the easy questions.
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J
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God wants you to break up your paragraphs.
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if i cant get it or earn it myself....what good would it do to have god just hand it to me.

unless god or gods is gonna retroactively give me self respect.


kinda defeats the purpose of being human.

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Agent J
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Pray like everything depends upon God. Work like everything depends upon me.

As for stopping bad things from happening, we're living in a world where evil is allow leway because people choose to do evil, and people are allowed to have a choice. So you have the choice to do evil and God won't stop you, but there will be consequences. Unfortunately that means that bad things happen to people.
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Malice O'Conner
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whac3 wrote:
I am not a Christian and so your conception of G-d may be markedly different than mine. Yet from a Jewish point of view your attitude towards G-d makes a fundamental error. Namely, you presume that G-d has a limited ability to deal with things and so dealing with your issues would somehow distract G-d from larger issues. This simply is not the case by the nature of G-d.


I personally don't feel I am in error. I don't feel I would "distract" God but I am however saying that if there were things that God would fix, mine wouldn't be major priority. I am merely remarking on asking God isn't worthwhile -- I believe we are responsible for what goes on, and we are responsible for the outcome. We are ultimately responsible for the conditions of things and what we leave for the future. I just am saying God doesn't have a hand here, so why pray to him for anything. Mind you I don't ask - I just don't.
Keep in mind that I don't ask. I am merely remarking more on those that would tell me to ask God for it. The consistent remark of fellows in my area is "Pray to God" and in-so I just believe as I believe.
 
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Moshe Callen
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MalicetheDevil wrote:
whac3 wrote:
I am not a Christian and so your conception of G-d may be markedly different than mine. Yet from a Jewish point of view your attitude towards G-d makes a fundamental error. Namely, you presume that G-d has a limited ability to deal with things and so dealing with your issues would somehow distract G-d from larger issues. This simply is not the case by the nature of G-d.


I personally don't feel I am in error. I don't feel I would "distract" God but I am however saying that if there were things that God would fix, mine wouldn't be major priority. I am merely remarking on asking God isn't worthwhile -- I believe we are responsible for what goes on, and we are responsible for the outcome. We are ultimately responsible for the conditions of things and what we leave for the future. I just am saying God doesn't have a hand here, so why pray to him for anything. Mind you I don't ask - I just don't.
Keep in mind that I don't ask. I am merely remarking more on those that would tell me to ask God for it. The consistent remark of fellows in my area is "Pray to God" and in-so I just believe as I believe.

How would asking G-d change your own level of personal responsibility?
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Agent J
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Let's say you divide your priorities into three categories, A, B, and C.

You want to get A, B, and C done, but A is the most important, so you do A first. Then you do B. If you have time, you might do C.

Now, imagine you have unlimited time and energy.

You would be able to do A, B, and C, and so your prioritizing would be meaningless.

God has unlimited time and energy to do things, so he either does or doesn't - he doesn't want to do things but not get around to them, so priorities are meaningless.

Obviously if you don't believe that God has unlimited time and energy then it doesn't matter, but if you do then you need to re-examine your take on you being low on God's priority list.
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Emo Philips wrote:
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way. So I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
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Malice O'Conner
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Asking someone else for help changes responsibility doesn't it? If you were to do a homework assignment and you had help then if something went wrong then most commonly the other is blamed, but even that is a bad example.
It doesn't really change the personal responsibility, in those who tell me to ask God for help or whatever - it denotes an idea that I can't do it myself so I would ask for help from a "higher power". Sort of like asking Mom or Dad to help when I can't afford rent or something - personally that would show a lack of responsibility in that regard wouldn't it? I admit shit happens, but so often is it that someone asks God for something trivial, my only question is why?

I think you're making this about me and my personal views, although I understand what many of you are saying - maybe it was a bad decision to post this. We all will see religion as we choose to see it, we see God as we deem to see God. I can not fault any of you for how you feel. I do understand that I do not have all the answers nor do I want them. I am not sure posting this particular thread was a wise choice.
 
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Because talking to yourself too often may make you seem mentally unbalanced.

But if you tell people that it's actually an invisible, omnipotent, and omnipresent deity you're talking to then you're not crazy, you're just religious.

MalicetheDevil wrote:
I am not sure posting this particular thread was a wise choice.

Welcome to RSP.
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Moshe Callen
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MalicetheDevil wrote:
Asking someone else for help changes responsibility doesn't it?

Why? You're the one physically doing actions. G-d gives the means, strength, etc., but it's you who does it.
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Agent J
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Isn't faith a personal thing?

Prayer isn't limited to asking for things, for one, and for two, there really is no reason NOT to ask, unless you're being selfish. This is of course the counter-attitude of 'Why not ask God?' As a Christian I'm instructed to pray unceasingly, so when things come up it would be counter-intuitive to not allow that to be part of the conversation.
 
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I think that talking to a hypothetical being might allow you to focus your mind, even if god either doesn't exist or doesn't respond, imagining that you're talking to an omnipotent being might give you better perspective on your topic or allow you to think about your issue in a broader way which might give you some insight.
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whac3 wrote:
MalicetheDevil wrote:
Asking someone else for help changes responsibility doesn't it?

Why? You're the one physically doing actions. G-d gives the means, strength, etc., but it's you who does it.



i dont necessarily buy that
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Ken
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MalicetheDevil wrote:
I believe we are responsible for what goes on,


A devoutly religious man kneels to pray every night before bed. When money becomes tight, he begins to ask God "God, please let me win the lottery. It would be an answer to so many problems and I could do so many good things with the money."

A week passes and he hasn't won, so he again prays - "Lord, I know it's only money but things are so hard and it would let me help so many people."

Another week passes and still no winnings. "Lord, I ask for so little and do so much. Please help me just this once."

From on high a voice booms - "Do me a favor. Buy a ticket."
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Ken
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MalicetheDevil wrote:
Asking someone else for help changes responsibility doesn't it?


No. Why would it? I get paid to answer people's technology questions. That doesn't mean they won't get fired if they get it wrong or screw up. They might even get fired if they follow what I suggest and it turns out to be completely wrong for their company (this hasn't happened, ever).

Asking for help means you recognize that you can't do it all/know it all yourself. There's nothing wrong with admitting that. Expecting that prayer will just fix the problem is pretty foolish, but if you believe in God, why does praying for something differ from asking your friend to help you move a couch?
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Altair IV wrote:
whac3 wrote:
MalicetheDevil wrote:
Asking someone else for help changes responsibility doesn't it?

Why? You're the one physically doing actions. G-d gives the means, strength, etc., but it's you who does it.



i dont necessarily buy that

and?
 
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whac3 wrote:
Altair IV wrote:
whac3 wrote:
MalicetheDevil wrote:
Asking someone else for help changes responsibility doesn't it?

Why? You're the one physically doing actions. G-d gives the means, strength, etc., but it's you who does it.



i dont necessarily buy that

and?


and nothing.

liability insurance would cripple god....unless he got pro bono work

 
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MalicetheDevil wrote:
Asking someone else for help changes responsibility doesn't it? If you were to do a homework assignment and you had help then if something went wrong then most commonly the other is blamed, but even that is a bad example.
It doesn't really change the personal responsibility, in those who tell me to ask God for help or whatever - it denotes an idea that I can't do it myself so I would ask for help from a "higher power". Sort of like asking Mom or Dad to help when I can't afford rent or something - personally that would show a lack of responsibility in that regard wouldn't it? I admit shit happens, but so often is it that someone asks God for something trivial, my only question is why?

I think you're making this about me and my personal views, although I understand what many of you are saying - maybe it was a bad decision to post this. We all will see religion as we choose to see it, we see God as we deem to see God. I can not fault any of you for how you feel. I do understand that I do not have all the answers nor do I want them. I am not sure posting this particular thread was a wise choice.


This is a hard place to post serious stuff, but it is the right place. My view FWIW - it's fine to believe in God and not believe in prayer.

 
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Malice O'Conner
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Let me spin it this way - I talk to "God" all the time, like a friend. I laugh when I have a shitty day and it gets shittier thinking it's the cosmic joke. (But I know its not) I believe humanity is responsible for its own evils.
I believe that God doesn't have a hand in anything in this life because 1) it would prove "his" existence, 2) It was always ours. Like a home, we moved in, started placing our things, then changing furniture, and make it look nicer, while it still has rot and mold in the walls and the sink doesn't work right, and some of the cupboards are falling apart. Needless to say the world is full of shit, but there are still nice things. Yay. Got it. However I feel that fanatic belief in anything is wrong. I see that too much of ANYTHING is bad for you, and by anything it includes religion (again personal view).
I commonly hear "God" this, "God" that, for instance the serenity prayer.
"God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.
Amen."

--Reinhold Niebuhr

This is asking God for something, that we ourselves should see. We do not need God to see these things, take God out of that whole equation.
Accept the things I cannot change;
Have the courage to change the things I can;
and gain wisdom to know the difference.

Live one day at a time;
Enjoy one moment at a time;
Accept hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
I may be reasonably happy in this life.

Somewhat different when God is taken from the equation isn't it.
 
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