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Subject: Barbarians rss

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Joe
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So the rules suggest that any scenario that calls your army Barbarians can use the barbarian special rules but do any of the cards actually mention that?
 
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Joshua Gottesman
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I'd have to go through my cards to check, and I do recall several that allowed people to use the Barbarian Fury rule, if that's the rule to which you are referring.
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Mike Schmidt
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I just looked through my scenario cards for the base and 1st expansion and see a few mentioning Command Control, but I don't see any mention of the Barbarian Charge. I wonder if it is only on later scenarios from expansion 2 and later.
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Joe
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That's what I'm wondering as well. I was indeed talking about the barbarian fury rule.
 
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Joshua Gottesman
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Okay, I pulled out my copy of the game and expansions. These are the scenarios that use the rule.

36
51
58
64

Those are the only ones I saw.
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Craig Artl
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Joshuaaaaaa wrote:
Okay, I pulled out my copy of the game and expansions. These are the scenarios that use the rule.

36
51
58
64

Those are the only ones I saw.


Howdy Joshua!

Not sure if you will see this post since the thread is quite old, but I am confused by your post and hope you can clear things up for me. Are you referring to the Barbarian Charge rule or the Command Control rule? I checked out the scenarios you list and am not seeing anything mentioned (i.e. #64 Ashdown). What about scenario #23 Durazzo?

What confuses me about the rules is the line under Barbarian Charges that states "He may choose to save this bonus and use it when he deems appropriate, unless the following Command Control option rule is being used". What does that mean? Can you not use the Barbarian Charge if you are using Command Control? Thanks for your help!
 
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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Biker1999 wrote:
What confuses me about the rules is the line under Barbarian Charges that states "He may choose to save this bonus and use it when he deems appropriate, unless the following Command Control option rule is being used". What does that mean? Can you not use the Barbarian Charge if you are using Command Control? Thanks for your help!

Probably a legacy of the original rules. It says the same thing in my 1994 3W rules (see Ancients). In my rules at least, the 'command control' they're talking about is described in 13.9 Barbarians and Knights and the reference itself is in 13.10 Barbarian Charges. Was poorly written then (perhaps it still is) but made perfect sense once you put it together.
 
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Craig Artl
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Thanks for chiming in Sphere! The current rules are pretty much the same where the rule for Barbarian Charges has the reference to the rule for Command Control, but what does that referecne mean? Does it mean that the Barbarians do not get the bonus when they are using the Command Control rule? Does it mean that they cannot choose to use the bonus unless they are being forced to charge using the Command Control rules? VPG reworded the Command Control rule for the current version 1.3 of the rules but it just isn't clear how these two separate and distinct rules work together and nothing was done to clear that up.

This thread makes reference to a "barbarian fury" rule but I have never seen the word fury used in any rules. They probably meant barbarian charge.
 
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I think loss of barbarian command control is an event; once they've lost it it's gone and you no longer roll for it on subsequent turns. Add in barbarian charge and you get another one time event, which you can expend at will prior to losing command control. If you use it in conjunction with barbarian command control, losing control before you use the charge means you blew your chance.

If you're using barbarian control alone without command control, no worries, but I wouldn't recommend that. The two rules together work nicely to put you in the proper mindset: barbarians can launch a ferocious attack, but they must strike quickly or risk losing their nerve and breaking before an army of steady veterans.

[edit] BTW, I house rule it that you forego rolling for command control on the 1st turn, and sometimes the 2nd, depending on the setup for a given scenario. While in reality a barbarian army might lose their nerve before the battle starts, it doesn't make for an entertaining game. If they lose their nerve while you're trying to be cute and wait for the perfect moment, that's well deserved and entirely appropriate.
 
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Craig Artl
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Sphere wrote:
I think loss of barbarian command control is an event; once they've lost it it's gone and you no longer roll for it on subsequent turns. Add in barbarian charge and you get another one time event, which you can expend at will prior to losing command control. If you use it in conjunction with barbarian command control, losing control before you use the charge means you blew your chance.

If you're using barbarian control alone without command control, no worries, but I wouldn't recommend that. The two rules together work nicely to put you in the proper mindset: barbarians can launch a ferocious attack, but they must strike quickly or risk losing their nerve and breaking before an army of steady veterans.

[edit] BTW, I house rule it that you forego rolling for command control on the 1st turn, and sometimes the 2nd, depending on the setup for a given scenario. While in reality a barbarian army might lose their nerve before the battle starts, it doesn't make for an entertaining game. If they lose their nerve while you're trying to be cute and wait for the perfect moment, that's well deserved and entirely appropriate.


Hmmm...interesting viewpoint. I always thought that you needed to role for control every turn, possibly spending more command points to try and get control. If losing control is a one time permanent event, that would mean that the barbarians (and knights in other scenarios) would continue to move and attack the closest enemy unit for the rest of the game. The scenario that I am playing (#23 Durazzo) states that command control MUST be used for the Byzantine light infantry...it says nothing about the barbarian charges (I just figured it was a good optional rule to use). I'm definitely confused by the use of these two rules.
 
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Biker1999 wrote:
Sphere wrote:
I think loss of barbarian command control is an event; once they've lost it it's gone and you no longer roll for it on subsequent turns. Add in barbarian charge and you get another one time event, which you can expend at will prior to losing command control. If you use it in conjunction with barbarian command control, losing control before you use the charge means you blew your chance.

If you're using barbarian control alone without command control, no worries, but I wouldn't recommend that. The two rules together work nicely to put you in the proper mindset: barbarians can launch a ferocious attack, but they must strike quickly or risk losing their nerve and breaking before an army of steady veterans.

[edit] BTW, I house rule it that you forego rolling for command control on the 1st turn, and sometimes the 2nd, depending on the setup for a given scenario. While in reality a barbarian army might lose their nerve before the battle starts, it doesn't make for an entertaining game. If they lose their nerve while you're trying to be cute and wait for the perfect moment, that's well deserved and entirely appropriate.


Hmmm...interesting viewpoint. I always thought that you needed to role for control every turn, possibly spending more command points to try and get control. If losing control is a one time permanent event, that would mean that the barbarians (and knights in other scenarios) would continue to move and attack the closest enemy unit for the rest of the game. The scenario that I am playing (#23 Durazzo) states that command control MUST be used for the Byzantine light infantry...it says nothing about the barbarian charges (I just figured it was a good optional rule to use). I'm definitely confused by the use of these two rules.

The rules don't specify that it's a one time event; that's my take on how it works best with the inclusion of Barbarian Charge. Been years since I played, though, so working from memory and lacking knowledge of what else may have changed in the Victory Games version.

If you treat Barbarian Command Control as an every turn thing, the barbarians' effectiveness will waffle back and forth, some turns full strength and sometimes not, making them not only undependable but weaker overall.

These are (or were) optional rules, so I think the idea is to tune them for yourself to yield what you see as the best result. That may be for game purposes, historical purposes or a combination of the two (as in my case). I don't recall a lot of accounts where barbarians bounced back after losing heart. I'm thinking primarily of Roman experience against the Gallic tribes, Britons, etc., who got worked up, stripped off their clothes and charged in a frenzy. If that didn't work, it tended to be game over.
 
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