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Subject: Gen Con 2013 No Ship Math Trade Discussion rss

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Alan Reeve
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Gen Con 2013 is just weeks away so it's time for me to cut/paste from prior math trades and set up the new math trade for Gen Con 2013.

Request GeekList: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/159643/gen-con-2013-no...

Trade GeekList: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/159644/gen-con-2013-no...

If you are participating in this math trade use of the OLWLG (Online Want List Generator) is mandatory for creating your want list(s) (please remember to tip JeffyJeff some GG for his support).

If you have never used the OLWLG before, please read this: http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/OLWLG

And if you're still unsure, feel free to ask questions in the discussion thread. It's not hard... really... the core idea is that you post stuff you are willing to trade and then choose things others have listed that you'd be willing to trade each of your items for. You'll only ever give something away if you also receive something in exchange for it that you chose! And if there's nothing you want for a given title you don't have to trade it.

Key dates and times

Open for posting games: Now through Sunday, July 28th, 2013, 11pm Eastern time.

Want list submission period: Sunday, July 28th, 2013 (shortly after submission closes) to Sunday, August 4th, 11pm Eastern time.

Results will be posted shortly thereafter.

This event is open to anyone who wants to participate, but please note that this is a no ship event. We will be meeting up on Saturday, August 17th at 10am in Hall E @ Tables: Red 13-24 to exchange games and you'll either need to be in attendance, have someone proxy (drop off and pick up) for you at the meet-up, or make your own arrangements to give/get your trade items. Please note that this is a new location for the trade that will be dedicated to us until 11 a.m. (thanks to Lee Maile for reserving this space for us). It may (will?) be loud in there so I recommend making a sign with your Board Game Geek ID that you can hold up so that people can find you more easily.

(If you need more detail on where this is then check out the maps of the convention center available at...

http://www.icclos.com/floor-plans.aspx

Then click on Level 1 and Hall E is close to the middle of the map (the Serpentine lobby where we met last year is in the upper right corner).


OK - some simple rules - please take a few minutes to read them:

* Please do not delete items or sweeteners once you have listed them. You can always submit a blank want list for an entry if you've traded it away before the deadline.

* Errors made by you will NOT invalidate the results. You will be expected to honor your trades even if you made a mistake, so please carefully review your wants list(s) before submitting them. You can always make changes BEFORE the end of the submission period but NOT after it.

* This is a no ship event. All exchanges are to be made at Gen Con 2013 as above. If you cannot attend in person, you can still participate but you must find someone who is willing to act as your proxy at the convention (taking your games there for you and picking up your new games). If you are unable to get your games to the Con for whatever reason after participating then this becomes a ship trade for you and it will be your responsibility to pay postage costs for both shipping your games and for others to ship games to you, but please don't let it come to that.

* Gift Certificates and Geekgold (GG) are allowed in this math trade, but arbitrage of these is not (trading a lower cash value item for a higher cash value item). DVDs, RPGs, computer games and other relevant items of interest are all permitted, but be reasonable. If you list items nobody is interested in then you're wasting your time and everyone else's time.

* Non-game entries must be added as "Outside the Scope of BGG" (game id 23953), Miscellaneous Game Merchandise (game id 22104) or "Miscellaneous Game Accessory" (game id 5985). Please also note the use of the "alt name" tag that the OLWLG supports in order to properly view your items over there.

* If you are offering an expansion for which there is no entry in BGG (for instance expansion cards handed out at Essen) and NOT the base game, please use "Miscellaneous Game Accessory" to help avoid confusion.

* You are expected to describe, as accurately as is reasonably possible, the condition (components and box) and edition of your item in the description. If your item is not the English version or a multilingual version that includes English rules then the supported languages MUST be disclosed in the description (copies/printouts of English rules are fine, but it must be disclosed that the game was not originally English from the manufacturer). This includes sweeteners.

* For games not brand new (in shrink) you must inventory the game's components and list anything missing. Do not assume it is complete solely because the person giving it to you told you it was. If a game is found to be missing pieces then it will be the giver's responsibility to rectify that. Also, remember that just because something is "new in shrink" doesn't mean that you shouldn't disclose any dings and dents. It might not matter to you, but it matters to some people.

* You are expected to periodically check during the item submission period, and preferably during the want list submission period, to see if anyone has commented on your entries. People often ask questions of items - most commonly because you have forgotten to state a version, language or shipping policy - and you should check in to address such questions in a timely manner should they arise, so that everyone then has the correct information available. This is a very easy thing to do. Just click on "My Geek", then "Contributions" and finally on "GeekList Items". You will then be able to see your items without having to find them in the trade GeekList along with any comments that people have made. You will only need to go back to the trade GeekList to make adjustments or answer questions if there were any.



Other useful information

OWLG Metric Used: USER-TRADING Seed=12345 Iterations=100

Want list submission

You can start creating your want lists any time after the start of the event.

Please note that it's best to work on your want lists and submit them early - you can always make changes and resubmit later. This will prevent you from being left out if you forget the deadline.

Submissions may be made at any time after the listing period has ended. If you will be unavailable during the want list submission period but still wish to participate, contact me directly and we can discuss the possibility of you submitting early.

Remember that you may have saved your want lists, but they have NOT been submitted until you press the green button in step 4 and received a confirming Geekmail.

You are not obliged to trade anything you put up for offer. If you offer a game, but see nothing that you are willing to accept for it in trade, you can submit a blank want list for it, or not submit one at all. If, however, you do submit a want list for a game, then it is expected that you will honor any trade that the TradeMaximizer comes up with. You will not receive anything you did not list as acceptable for the game(s) you have offered, so it is important to check your want lists when they are posted publicly (see above dates), to correct any errors.

Please note: Sometimes real life intrudes on us unexpectedly. If I'm an hour late posting something, please bear with me. Running one of these can be a fair bit of work, and running it without the OLWLG is twice as much work.

So enter lots of items and have fun!
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Edward F
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Awesome, thanks for doing this. It worked out really well last year and was hoping for another one.
 
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Smurf-o-Deth
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Dammit, I'm doing Killer Breakfast Saturday morning.
 
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Edward Uhler
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Awesome, looking forward to this. Thanks for running it!


I would suggest making bold the dates/times/locations in the OP. It will help everyone later on. thumbsup
 
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Paul Nowak
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May want to link to the OLWLG wiki/instructions for how to do altnames, multiple copies, etc.

http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/OLWLG
 
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Future Wolfie
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adreeve wrote:
Saturday, August 17th at 10am in Hall E @ Tables: Red 13-24


Thank you for clearly defining the location this time. Last year there were definitely two different groups that formed in separate locations in hall E and it took a while for them to find each other.
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Alan Reeve
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grummzaire wrote:
adreeve wrote:
Saturday, August 17th at 10am in Hall E @ Tables: Red 13-24


Thank you for clearly defining the location this time. Last year there were definitely two different groups that formed in separate locations in hall E and it took a while for them to find each other.


Yep. 'Ya live and 'ya learn. Last time I didn't have the info (for whatever the reason) until I got to Indy. I think (no guarantees) we're a bit more off to the side this time and have more table space which should also help.
 
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Alan Reeve
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smurfodeth wrote:
Dammit, I'm doing Killer Breakfast Saturday morning.


No matter... with an event name like that I doubt you'd be alive to enjoy you math trade games afterwards. Seriously though... proxy?
 
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Alan Reeve
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eapeas wrote:
Awesome, looking forward to this. Thanks for running it!


I would suggest making bold the dates/times/locations in the OP. It will help everyone later on. thumbsup


I don't know... one is supposed to read all of the instructions again every time they participate. Doesn't everyone do that?
 
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J H
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I have my trades and wants listed. In step 3 in OLWLG I add a game but I don't get to choose which games I am willing to trade. Am I missing something?
 
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Alan Reeve
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Havox wrote:
I have my trades and wants listed. In step 3 in OLWLG I add a game but I don't get to choose which games I am willing to trade. Am I missing something?


Yes. If I recall, in step 3 when you add a game as a want it brings up a list of all of your offered games and you can choose which ones you're willing to trade for it. Then in step 4 you can see your games horizontally across the top and games you want vertically along the sides and you can adjust your wants by checking the check boxes at each intersection where each check box means I'd give the game at the top of this column for the game on the left of this row.
 
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Ryan Graham
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Did you sync your collection?
 
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J H
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I did. I only see games up to 599 on the list. Has it synced with the "for trade" list in awhile?
 
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Justin Fuhrmann
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You may just need to wait until the mod manually syncs the OLWLG.
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Ryan Graham
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Havox wrote:
I did. I only see games up to 599 on the list. Has it synced with the "for trade" list in awhile?


He's syncing it about once per day. The last sync brought it up to 599 so sometime today it'll probably sync again.
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J H
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It's updated now. Thanks for the info.
 
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Ryan Graham
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I read through some of the notes on the TradeMaximizer. I just want to confirm that we aren't using any sort of prioritization in this Math Trade. Is that correct?
 
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J H
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Sorry for being dense, but this is only my second math trade.

When I check multiple boxes for games I am willing to trade for a single game, am I saying that I am willing to trade all those games into the math trade with only the possibility of getting one game back? Let's say I put Stone Age, Kingdom Builder, and Smash Up into the math trade. I really want Agricola. I see Agricola and I am willing to give up any of my three games for it. Should I click all 3 check boxes?

I am unclear on how "optional value" works. Is it the game that I want to trade for the most? Using my example above, let's say I really want Agricola and I want Seasons as well, but not as badly. Do I put a 1 on Agricola and maybe a 3 on Seasons?

Thanks for the help.
 
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Edward Uhler
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Havox wrote:
Sorry for being dense, but this is only my second math trade.

When I check multiple boxes for games I am willing to trade for a single game, am I saying that I am willing to trade all those games into the math trade with only the possibility of getting one game back? Let's say I put Stone Age, Kingdom Builder, and Smash Up into the math trade. I really want Agricola. I see Agricola and I am willing to give up any of my three games for it. Should I click all 3 check boxes?

I am unclear on how "optional value" works. Is it the game that I want to trade for the most? Using my example above, let's say I really want Agricola and I want Seasons as well, but not as badly. Do I put a 1 on Agricola and maybe a 3 on Seasons?

Thanks for the help.


Every trade in a Math Trade is a 1-for-1. So if you check the box saying that you are willing to trade Stone Age, Kingdom Builder, or Smash Up for Agricola, that means you're willing to trade any ONE of those games for Agricola.

The owner of Agricola would then have to add any/all of those games onto their wishlist and would have to check the box for that 1-for-1 trade. Then, it might happen, but not always. If that trade would help make for bigger trade loops, then it probably would happen, but not always. Keep that in mind.

Anything that you add onto your wishlist and check the box next to, say Kingdom Builder, then you're offering KB up for any one game that you put a check next too.

Hope that clarifies that a little for you
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J H
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eapeas wrote:
Havox wrote:
Sorry for being dense, but this is only my second math trade.

When I check multiple boxes for games I am willing to trade for a single game, am I saying that I am willing to trade all those games into the math trade with only the possibility of getting one game back? Let's say I put Stone Age, Kingdom Builder, and Smash Up into the math trade. I really want Agricola. I see Agricola and I am willing to give up any of my three games for it. Should I click all 3 check boxes?

I am unclear on how "optional value" works. Is it the game that I want to trade for the most? Using my example above, let's say I really want Agricola and I want Seasons as well, but not as badly. Do I put a 1 on Agricola and maybe a 3 on Seasons?

Thanks for the help.


Every trade in a Math Trade is a 1-for-1. So if you check the box saying that you are willing to trade Stone Age, Kingdom Builder, or Smash Up for Agricola, that means you're willing to trade any ONE of those games for Agricola.

The owner of Agricola would then have to add any/all of those games onto their wishlist and would have to check the box for that 1-for-1 trade. Then, it might happen, but not always. If that trade would help make for bigger trade loops, then it probably would happen, but not always. Keep that in mind.

Anything that you add onto your wishlist and check the box next to, say Kingdom Builder, then you're offering KB up for any one game that you put a check next too.

Hope that clarifies that a little for you


It does, thank you!
 
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Stephen Rochelle
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On the other hand, if you want to put together a high-value trade, you can list Games A, B, and C in a single Geeklist item, because that "1-for-1" is by item listing.

However, it's not practical to list games A, B, and C individually as well as listing a set of games A+B+C in one item. It's technically doable, but you'd have to commit to submitting a completely blank wishlist either for all of the single games or for the massive game collection, else you might end up with a trade for A and another trade for A+B+C -- OLWLG doesn't have the capability to distinguish that sort of error, and so you'd be required to make up the difference by buying the extra copy of A needed to fill that trade.
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Derek Thompson
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hi..

This is my first math trade. Some dumb questions:

If you only, say, put 1 item that you want for each of yours and nothing else is marked as wanted, i.e. I'm basically pouting and saying "I'M ONLY TRADING IF I GET THIS SPECIFIC ITEM!!", how does the math trade deal with that? If it doesn't work out in the maximizer or whatever-it's-called do you just end up keeping your game and not having that one participate in the trade? Just trying to understand how many games I need to "want" on my end.

Thanks...
 
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Ryan Graham
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aldaryn wrote:
If it doesn't work out in the maximizer or whatever-it's-called do you just end up keeping your game and not having that one participate in the trade?
Thanks...


This is my first trade too but I'm fairly certain that's correct.
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Alex W

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How long does the actual trading normally take? I have a ticket to play a Heroclix Battle Royale at 10am on Sat, but can probably show up to that up to half an hour late.
 
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Paul Nowak
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gramaw wrote:
aldaryn wrote:
If it doesn't work out in the maximizer or whatever-it's-called do you just end up keeping your game and not having that one participate in the trade?
Thanks...


This is my first trade too but I'm fairly certain that's correct.


Yes, that is correct. As long as you are happy with the worst/least valuable item you checked as willing to trade, you will be happy with the results.

Also, it is not necessary that the owner of the game you want, wants your game - Math Trades generate complex chains of trades that can involve hundreds of games changing hands in just one chain.

Fortunately, all you have to do is show up to hand the games to the people that the MT results say to, and receive the game the MT results say you get.
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