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Subject: Aesop's Fables Discussion - The Northwind and the Sun rss

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Jage
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
But sometimes, that which we think we want we later learn we didn't really want at all.

Or it could just be humans desire to rationalize.

Or maybe it deals with acceptance. If it truly was impossible for the fox to get the grapes, is it bad to downplay the desire to make yourself feel better? Maybe it could be about not dwelling on the impossible, and moving on with a positive outlook?

Or maybe the grapes were sour the whole time, and in his yearning the fox didn't realize until he was tired and gave the grapes a closer look.
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
I wanted to reply, but when I had time my browser wasn't loading the reply box, and now I don't have time... but hopefully I'll remember to come back when I do have time.
 
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George Buss
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
These are really embedded in society, but not as many people are aware of where it comes from...

We just mounted a 45 minute children's theater piece using live actors and large scale puppetry to retell 5 of Aesop's Fables. I'm amazed how many people have never heard them before.

(I like the idea of discussing them... I also agree that they seem straight forward, mostly because they are mainly illustrations of morals... maybe the morals are what needs to be up for discussion?)
 
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George Buss
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
Raid1280 wrote:
(Copied from BGG WW Book Discussion Group)

The other night, I was browsing at Barnes and Noble when I was drawn in by one of their summer reading tables, was tempted, and I picked up a copy of The Picture of Dorian Gray. While checking out I was informed that Barnes and Noble classics are buy two, get a third free. Being that these books are at a good price point I decided that I would give in and pick up a few more. I chose The Wasteland, and Aesop's Fables.

I chose Aesop's Fables because I thought it would be fun/interesting to examine a fable a week and discuss what it means and how it may apply to the current day. Each fable is, at most, two paragraphs. They're very short, so they're perfect bite-sized stories for our consumption.

Is there any interest? Do you think it would be interesting to post in the Village Square, or just keep here?

I will go ahead and post the first one, and see what we can drum up:

The Fox and the Grapes

A hungry fox saw some fine bunches of grapes hanging from a vine that was trained along a high trellis and did his best to reach them by jumping as high as he could into the air. But it was all in vain, for they were just out of reach. So he gave up trying and walked away with an air of dignity and unconcern, remarking, "I thought those grapes were ripe, but I see now they are quite sour."

Thoughts?


So... is the fox wrong in justifying his action of walking away and giving up or was it a neccesary part of his empowerment to let go?
 
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Avin Fernando
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
Who's to say the fox isn't correct? Perhaps "sour" means "not worth the effort."

So the question is, does perception alter reality? The fable frames the narrative to imply that the fox is foolish, because the answer is "no." But Werner Heisenberg says "yes."
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The Original Thumb #50
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
Did anyone ever get to try the grapes?
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Barry
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
Melsana wrote:
I wanted to reply, but when I had time my browser wasn't loading the reply box, and now I don't have time... but hopefully I'll remember to come back when I do have time.


The proper thing to do is to give up and just assume the thread is a load of malarkey.
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Paul Smith
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
Avin wrote:
Who's to say the fox isn't correct? Perhaps "sour" means "not worth the effort."

So the question is, does perception alter reality? The fable frames the narrative to imply that the fox is foolish, because the answer is "no." But Werner Heisenberg says "yes."

My question is: Is that necessary?

I mean, is it possible for the fox to walk away and admit "As fine as those grapes are, I will not be able to get them (until something changes)."?
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Waffles? Arooo!
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
I'm more intrigued by the fact that the fox can talk.
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
The fox wins every fight.
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
My thoughts on this exactly followed the progression of of this thread.

-the fox is foolish, self-righteous, and delusional
-then again his acceptance is commendable as its far better than sitting around longing for the impossible.
-but why does he have to create a new "reality" for himself that is not predicated on actual truth?

Then the pendulum swings again and I guess if the actual truth is unknowable then whatever you believe is just as good as true (no one can prove they are not sour).

Still, in this case gnosticism seems the most healthy. Are the grapes sour or sweet? I dunno, the grapes just are.
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Goo
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
Then we can widen the definition of "sour." The wasted effort, the unrequited longing, the feelings of failure. Those grapes are sour.

But really, we all apply this cognitive dissonance every day. I can't be happy if I don't think what I have is just right and what I do not have is not right. We naturally try to close those inconsistencies. We live amongst great injustices and horrible things in the world, yet still feel that life is good. We need to go through some sort of similar process to accept the passing of a loved one or we would never get over it. Religion aside, it is a hard thing to get to that point where we've lost someone and eventually feel that it's okay that it is this way.

You can't go around thinking they were the best grapes ever. Besides, grapes you can't eat don't taste as good as grapes you can.
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Goo
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
Darmnit, I'm going to be going back and forth on this all night.

As Keats wrote, "heard melodies are sweet, but those unheard are sweeter still." That fox is too pragmatic. I need a little romanticism. I'm driven by an ounce or two of longing. Things like hope and fantasy are in that place of not exactly accepting the reality in front of us.

Gatsby's green light and all that.
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George Buss
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
Goo is great, he gives us sour grapes!
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
Gelatinous Goo wrote:
But really, we all apply this cognitive dissonance every day. I can't be happy if I don't think what I have is just right and what I do not have is not right. We naturally try to close those inconsistencies. We live amongst great injustices and horrible things in the world, yet still feel that life is good.

This is my take-away from the fable; adding, is it human nature? If so, should I accept the necessity of thinking things are sour grapes, or challenge it and be more honest?
 
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
Quote:
But it was all in vain, for they were just out of reach.

I think this is the crucial statement. If they were too far out of reach that the fox would never be able to reach them, that is a different situation than them being "just out of reach." In this case, it feels like the fox gave up instead of trying harder. Or training to get better. Or spending a little extra time and effort to find something to bridge that minimal gap that separated the fox from success and failure.

In short, the fox gave up and rationalized it. Had the fox given his all (by himself) and applied all available tools (which he didn't) before moving on, then he would have been justified in concluding that these grapes weren't for him and putting them out of his mind. Instead, he justifies not putting forth any more effort than convenient and chooses a rationalization of convenience to not blame himself or his lack of efforts.
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
rgatti wrote:
Quote:
But it was all in vain, for they were just out of reach.

I think this is the crucial statement. If they were too far out of reach that the fox would never be able to reach them, that is a different situation than them being "just out of reach." In this case, it feels like the fox gave up instead of trying harder. Or training to get better. Or spending a little extra time and effort to find something to bridge that minimal gap that separated the fox from success and failure.

In short, the fox gave up and rationalized it. Had the fox given his all (by himself) and applied all available tools (which he didn't) before moving on, then he would have been justified in concluding that these grapes weren't for him and putting them out of his mind. Instead, he justifies not putting forth any more effort than convenient and chooses a rationalization of convenience to not blame himself or his lack of efforts.


Just when we think we've squeezed all we can from the grapes, rgatti comes in and wows us with this angle.
 
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
Aren't foxes carnivorous? Maybe the story is about coming to terms with who you are.
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
Is there a connection between grapes and whine?
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
[vote Grapes]
[vote Nightfall]

Frankly, the fox is a whiny bitch and because he can't get what it is he wants, he convinces himself that the object was never worth having.

I have friends who act like this. They're whiny bitches.
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Zed TwoEggs
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
Laladien wrote:
[vote Grapes]
[vote Nightfall]

Frankly, the fox is a whiny bitch and because he can't get what it is he wants, he convinces himself that the object was never worth having.

I have friends who act like this. They're whiny bitches.
But you're voting grapes instead of the fox?
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
zd00 wrote:
Laladien wrote:
[vote Grapes]
[vote Nightfall]

Frankly, the fox is a whiny bitch and because he can't get what it is he wants, he convinces himself that the object was never worth having.

I have friends who act like this. They're whiny bitches.
But you're voting grapes instead of the fox?


They're already hanging.
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
Cassandra Project wrote:
VOTE TALLY

Player (4/?) - # - Voted by

nightfall - 1 - Laladien(1)
Not Voting: Fox, Grapes, Aesop

Nightfall votes are denoted by an '*' after the player's name.


Your Moderator has chosen to use the Longest Held Last Vote method for a tiebreaker - This is just for Cassandra system, and there may be a different tiebreaker specified by your Moderator in the ruleset.

Lynch time is at 2:00 PM BGG
Night Action deadline is at 3:00 PM BGG
---------------------

INVERTED TALLY

Voter - # - Voted on

Laladien - 1 - nightfall(1)
Not Voting: Fox, Grapes, Aesop
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
Here's my modern retelling:

A man in want of a woman finds himself at a club where he sees a beautiful girl at the bar. Walking over, he shouts over the loud music, "would you like to dance?"

But it was all in vain because the woman fancied not the man and said, "No."

So he gave up trying and walked away with an air of dignity and unconcern, remarking, "You thought I asked you to dance? I said, 'you look fat in those pants."
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Re: Aesop's Fables Discussion
zd00 wrote:
Laladien wrote:
[vote Grapes]
[vote Nightfall]

Frankly, the fox is a whiny bitch and because he can't get what it is he wants, he convinces himself that the object was never worth having.

I have friends who act like this. They're whiny bitches.
But you're voting grapes instead of the fox?


They're the ones who keep messing with the fox. I blame the grapes. That's some devious behavior.
 
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