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Legendary: Dark City» Forums » Rules

Subject: If you would gain a wound... rss

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Mark Cruzan-Rea
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Had this come up in a game last night. Player A plays the Collossus that gives him a wound, but the wound deck is empty. Is that player able to block the wound using Collossus' other common to draw two cards?

I can see the argument for both sides. One side having the wound deck being empty as just another reason way the player didn't gain the wound. The other being that there is no wound for Collosus to block.
 
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Aaron Bohm
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Unless the scheme otherwise states it, wounds are unlimited. That being said, the game only has 30 I suppose. Still at 6 wounds per player, that's a lot of wounds clogging up a deck and you should think (in these instances) to include more wound eating characters and taking more turns to discard wounds as this, as yet, has never happened to us.

To answer your question though, yes, you should be able to use both abilities. Keep in mind if the wound you are gaining is the last one due to a scheme limiting them, it is likely you just lost.
 
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Jim Hansen
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I don't think you would be able to block it if you aren't actually gaining a wound.

I have no idea how common this is, but I always KO my wounds back to the wound stack so it never actually runs out. It just feels wrong to me and breaks a lot of the card mechanics (like you discovered) when there are no wounds to gain.
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Kevin Rutherford
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First, wounds are not unlimited. There have been several rule examples of where there were fewer wound cards than players to give them to. Not all the players would then get wounds. Once the wound pile is empty it is empty. Wounds in the KO pile stay there unless a card specifically says to remove one.

So if there are no wound cards available to draw then you would not gain a wound and you could not use anything to counter it.
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Knobbly Savage
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Kevin is completely correct, the rules reference is on p. 16:

Running out of Cards in the Bystander, Wound or S.H.I.EL.D. Officer Stacks wrote:
If one of these stacks runs out, the game
continues. If a player would gain one of
these cards, and there aren’t any more of
that card left in the appropriate stack, then
you don’t gain that card and the game
continues. Don’t take extra copies out of the KO pile.


And as the rules clearly state that you do not gain the card, you cannot trigger effects that key off gaining a Wound.

see below
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Devin Low
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Hi Mark,

Thanks for the question. In the scenario you describe, there are no Wounds left in the Wound Stack, you have "Colossus: Invulnerability" in hand, and an effect tells you to gain a Wound.
Invulnerability says:
Quote:
If you would gain a Wound, you may discard this card instead. If you do, draw two cards.

As KnobblySavage mentioned, p.16 of the rulebook says:
Quote:
Running out of Cards in the Bystander, Wound or S.H.I.EL.D. Officer Stacks
If one of these stacks runs out, the game continues. If a player would gain one of these cards, and there aren’t any more of that card left in the appropriate stack, then you don’t gain that card and the game continues. Don’t take extra copies out of the KO pile.

So you have two replacement effects that each say "If you would gain a Wound, [do something else] instead." You can choose which one you use. So you could discard Invulnerability to draw two cards, or you could do nothing. It is your choice. All the best,

Devin Low meeple
Designer, Legendary
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Jacovis
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devinlow wrote:
Hi Mark,

Thanks for the question. In the scenario you describe, there are no Wounds left in the Wound Stack, you have "Colossus: Invulnerability" in hand, and an effect tells you to gain a Wound.
Invulnerability says:
Quote:
If you would gain a Wound, you may discard this card instead. If you do, draw two cards.

As KnobblySavage mentioned, p.16 of the rulebook says:
Quote:
Running out of Cards in the Bystander, Wound or S.H.I.EL.D. Officer Stacks
If one of these stacks runs out, the game continues. If a player would gain one of these cards, and there aren’t any more of that card left in the appropriate stack, then you don’t gain that card and the game continues. Don’t take extra copies out of the KO pile.

So you have two replacement effects that each say "If you would gain a Wound, [do something else] instead." You can choose which one you use. So you could discard Invulnerability to draw two cards, or you could do nothing. It is your choice. All the best,

Devin Low meeple
Designer, Legendary


So just to be clear Devin, a card can trigger off preventing a card gain even if it isn't possible to gain that card because the supply is empty. Is that correct?

Thanks!!

Jacovis
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Istaran Majin
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I have a related question about Russian Heavy Tank.
If I reveal Russian Heavy Tank when another player would gain a wound, it says I can gain that wound and draw a card. What happens if I then discard Invulnerability to draw two cards?
Clearly, I draw three cards and don't gain a wound. But does the original recipient gain the wound?
 
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Knobbly Savage
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Istaran wrote:
I have a related question about Russian Heavy Tank.
If I reveal Russian Heavy Tank when another player would gain a wound, it says I can gain that wound and draw a card. What happens if I then discard Invulnerability to draw two cards?
Clearly, I draw three cards and don't gain a wound. But does the original recipient gain the wound?


No, because Invulnerability does not cancel the effect of Russian Hevy Tank. You have a series of replacement effects: originally, the effect was [player A gains a wound]. Russian Heavy Tank replaces that with [player B gains a Wound]+[player B draws a card]. Discarding Invulnerability then replaces the first of these, so that you get [Player B draws two cards]+[player B draws a card]. The original Wound stays replaced.

Hope that helps
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Istaran Majin
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I think that is how I would probably play it. My uncertainty was because of the wording of Russian Heavy Tank. I don't see it saying "instead" or anything else that clarifies that you gain the wound instead of the other player, except that it says you gain "that" wound, and logically two players can't both gain the same wound.
But if player B doesn't gain that wound (due to a replacement effect) it was unclear why the first player wouldn't end up gaining it.

To go to your wording, it looks like Russian Heavy Tank doesn't replace [player A gains a wound], it just follows it with [player B gains THAT wound] (thus removing it from player A's discard pile). So the wound would go to player A, then over to player B. So now you have [Player A gains a wound] + [player B gains THAT wound] + [player B draws a card]. Then Invulnerability makes it [Player A gains a wound] + [player B draws 2 cards] + [player B draws a card].

I was hoping Devin would comment on the intent, since he has commented on other things in this thread and it'd be good to hear it. Since they are cards from the same hero, I would assume he thought about their interaction and had an idea in mind.
 
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Jacovis
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Istaran wrote:


I was hoping Devin would comment on the intent, since he has commented on other things in this thread and it'd be good to hear it. Since they are cards from the same hero, I would assume he thought about their interaction and had an idea in mind.


There isn't much to say. Knobbly has nailed this one down. The English subjunctive is a real pain in the butt to parse, but it essentially comes down to this: Would is a way of saying something is hypothetical or an alternative.

By using the word would, you automatically know that the first option, player A gaining a Wound, no longer actually occurs or else the word would have been "did". The second part of Russian Heavy Tank answers where that Wound goes instead, since we have to know that information: to Player B.

Colossus interrupts Player A gaining a Wound and redirects it to his player, Player B, by revealing his Colossus RHT as a cost. The gaining the wound instead is an effect of RHT along with the draw a card.

So, let's replay the whole sequence:

Player A gains a Wound. The gain is interrupted by Player B's Colossus RHT, with Player B gaining the Wound instead. Trigger/cost: reveal Colossus RHT. Effect: gain the wound another player would have gained and draw a card.

Player B now gains a Wound and draws a card, in response to gaining the wound, Player B plays Colossus Inv, and draws two cards instead of gaining a wound. Trigger/cost: discard Colossus Inv. Effect: Player B draws 2 cards instead of gaining a Wound.

Player A never gains a wound because of RHT, and player B never gains a wound because of Colossus Inv. Player B does, however, draw a net total of three cards because all three cards were drawn as the effect of either revealing Colossus RHT or discarding Colossus Inv.

Hope this helps, and as it stands, the interaction seems to work perfectly from my end. The cards are supposed to combo like this.

Cheers!
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