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Sentinels of the Multiverse» Forums » Rules

Subject: First game... Am I playing it right? rss

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Jose M
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Hi. I just got SotM today and set it up for a quick play. I picked Baron Blade as the villain and Ra, Tempest and Wraith (in that order) as the heroes. The environment is Megalopolis. So far the game started like this :

* Baron draw card and is a 1-shot. Regains 10 HP. Since its the start nothing happens and it goes to trash pile.
* Ra plays Living Conflagration which deals 2 fire damage to Baron's Mobile Defense Platform. Then Ra uses Power which deals an additional point of damage and allows to draw a card. Since that draw was from the Power description the player is allowed to pick another card during the Draw step of the turn.
* Tempest plays Shield Winds (Ongoing, Limited) and then draws a card.
* Wraith plays Utility Belt (Equipment, Limited) and then draws a card.
* From the environment deck comes Hostage Situation. The text says that "Hero cards cannot be played. At the start of the env turn, each player may discard 1 card each to destroy this card".

Question... Since the Environment turn is Start!->Play!->End! this card went on play immediately. To us this meant that after Baron Blade takes its turn, all 3 heroes skip turn and then during the Start! phase of the next env turn we can all discard a card to destroy that 1st env card. Is this correct? Or will it not go on play until Env's next turn?

* After Env's turn Baron goes again with Backlash Field (Ongoing)
* All 3 heroes skipped turn because of Env card on play.
* During Env Start! phase all 3 heroes discarded a card which destroyed the 1 in play.
* Another card is draw from Env's deck. Policy Backup comes up. It says "Whenever a villain card would make a player discard a card, destroy this card"

Question... I don't know if the environment text is saying to do both or the one of those actions. In other words, when a villain card makes a player discard a card, will it do that AND destroy this env card? Or will it destroy the Env card instead of discarding any cards?

We continue the game and from the Villain's deck came up "Consider the Price of Victory!". This is a 1-shot card with the following text : "Each player discards 1 card. Discard X cards from the top of the villain deck, where x = the number of hero cards discarded this turn".

At this point we stopped to come here to ask since we don't know how the "Police Backup" env card reacts with the "Consider The Price of Victory!" villain card. It would make a big difference if we decide or not to discard cards.

Can someone comment on this setup? Thanks!
 
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Jeff Dougan
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The first thing I notice is that it looks like neither Tempest nor Wraith used a power on their first turn. They should have been able to.

Note also that just because the Heroes couldn't play cards after the Hostage Situation came out, they weren't forbidden from using powers. So, they each could have used a power OR neither played a card nor used a power, and then drawn 2 cards instead.

For your last question, the first Hero would be forced to discard a card, and the police backup goes instead. Two other heroes still have to discard a card. The top 2 cards of the villain deck get discarded, since 2 hero cards were discarded.
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Jose M
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Thank you so much for the reply! We definitely missed multiple things in our turns. We need to pay more attention at the cards.

You are right, it clearly says "Hero cards cannot be played", so we could have used a power or draw cards.

As for the last question we had that really wrong. We never considered that card protecting just the first Hero after the Villain's turn. This makes sense.

Thanks again!
 
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Harold Tessmann III
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Donq73 wrote:
* Tempest plays Shield Winds (Ongoing, Limited) and then draws a card.
* Wraith plays Utility Belt (Equipment, Limited) and then draws a card.

They really should have used their built-in powers.

Donq73 wrote:
* From the environment deck comes Hostage Situation. The text says that "Hero cards cannot be played. At the start of the env turn, each player may discard 1 card each to destroy this card".

Question... Since the Environment turn is Start!->Play!->End! this card went on play immediately. To us this meant that after Baron Blade takes its turn, all 3 heroes skip turn and then during the Start! phase of the next env turn we can all discard a card to destroy that 1st env card. Is this correct? Or will it not go on play until Env's next turn?

No, no, no. "On play" doesn't mean anything, but more importantly, nothing told you to skip any turns.

It works like this:

Environment turn:
Start: nothing triggers during this phase, so nothing happens
Play: Hostage Situation enters play. It says "hero cards cannot be played", so keep that in mind whenever you see any effect that says a hero may play a card. (Note that a few cards say you may "put something into play". They worded that differently on purpose: such effects avoid the "cannot play" prohibition. Also note that this doesn't interfere with the rule that lets you draw 2 during your draw phase if you don't play a card or use a power.) Hostage Situation doesn't have any immediate effect when played, so you just put it on the table. It doesn't say anything about skipping turns, either, so don't.
End: nothing triggers during this phase, so nothing happens

Villain turn: (start, play, end phases as normal)

Hero 1 (Ra) turn:
Start: nothing triggers during this phase, so nothing happens
Play: Hostage Situation prevents you from playing a card.
Power: Say Ra had a power that deals damage and lets him play a card. He could use it, deal the damage, but Hostage Situation would still prevent him from playing a card.
Draw: 1 card.
End: nothing triggers during this phase, so nothing happens

Hero 2 (Tempest) turn: (start, play, power, draw, end phases as normal)
Hero 3 (Wraith) turn: (start, play, power, draw, end phases as normal)

Environment turn:
Start: now you may discard 1 card each to destroy Hostage Situation. If you choose not to destroy it this turn, you can choose to do so during any future environment start of turn phase while the card remains in play. Also note that the "timing conflict" section of the rules applies if you have multiple cards that happen during the same phase. Keep track of the order you play cards; if 5 cards say "At the start of the environment phase…", first you do the text on the first card to come into play, then the second, then the third, and so on. If an effect causes another card to come into play that triggers during that phase (at the end of the villain turn, Omnitron plays a card that says "at the end of the villain turn, deal damage"), the new card triggers too, but it came into play after everything else, so it triggers after all the cards that came before it.

Donq73 wrote:
* Another card is draw from Env's deck. Policy Backup comes up. It says "Whenever a villain card would make a player discard a card, destroy this card"

Question... I don't know if the environment text is saying to do both or the one of those actions. In other words, when a villain card makes a player discard a card, will it do that AND destroy this env card? Or will it destroy the Env card instead of discarding any cards?

Good question. The wording in this game lacks consistency sometimes, but when they say "would", they usually mean "just before, and instead of". I could see it meaning "in addition to", though. To make it worse, they revised the text of this card when they published the Enhanced Edition. They really could have clarified this by saying "instead" or "as well".

Donq73 wrote:
We continue the game and from the Villain's deck came up "Consider the Price of Victory!". This is a 1-shot card with the following text : "Each player discards 1 card. Discard X cards from the top of the villain deck, where x = the number of hero cards discarded this turn".

At this point we stopped to come here to ask since we don't know how the "Police Backup" env card reacts with the "Consider The Price of Victory!" villain card. It would make a big difference if we decide or not to discard cards.

In any case, nothing in Sentinels happens simultaneously. I know the rulebook doesn't say this; I'll refer you to the full rules/FAQ/clarification shortly. Effects that say "each" or "all" really mean "do this to one thing of the given type, then another, then another, until you've done it to them all; the players choose the order".

For purpose of illustration, let's assume that Police Backup says "instead of discarding". What happens? One player has to discard, but Police Backup triggers and you destroy it instead of that player discarding. Then another player discards, and nothing prevents it. Then the third player discards. All players have discarded, end of effect.

Now that you have those answers, go download Spiff’s collection of errata and clarifications (which actually includes a bunch of rules not in the rulebook). These come from the developers, who for whatever reason will occasionally post answers on their own forums but will not assemble them into a FAQ, leaving that to a fan. Once you get through that, you’ll see that for the most part, the cards works as printed: don’t read into them or assume they mean things not in the text. And once you play some more, you’ll inevitably find a few cards and more interactions that the rules+clarifications do not clearly address—I have probably a dozen. Post those if you like, maybe even on the official forums in case you get an answer, or just do what seems reasonable in light of the rest of the rules.
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Jose M
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Hi Harold, Thanks for the link to Spiff's info. I quickly browsed thru the Rules and Clarifications and see already some clarifications (including the Playing cards vs. putting cards into play) that can help us.
 
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Josh
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Well, one thing I can spot right off is hat I think you were 'playing' power cards to use them. You 'play' a power card (like Ra's that does 1 point and 1 card draw) during your play card step. It remains in play(it's an ongoing), then you *use* the power on it during the use power step. It doesn't go away when you do this, it just sticks around, being an option you can choose to use every 'use power' step.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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jsdougan wrote:
For your last question, the first Hero would be forced to discard a card, and the police backup goes instead. Two other heroes still have to discard a card. The top 2 cards of the villain deck get discarded, since 2 hero cards were discarded.

I know this is a little old, but I'm just learning the game, going through the past discussions here, and I think this might be incorrect information. Sure, Police Backup says that when a Villain card would make you discard a card, you destroy Police Backup, but it doesn't say you destroy it instead of discarding the card. Wouldn't the first player still need to discard a card?
 
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Jeff Dougan
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Clipper wrote:
jsdougan wrote:
For your last question, the first Hero would be forced to discard a card, and the police backup goes instead. Two other heroes still have to discard a card. The top 2 cards of the villain deck get discarded, since 2 hero cards were discarded.

I know this is a little old, but I'm just learning the game, going through the past discussions here, and I think this might be incorrect information. Sure, Police Backup says that when a Villain card would make you discard a card, you destroy Police Backup, but it doesn't say you destroy it instead of discarding the card. Wouldn't the first player still need to discard a card?


I think the intent has been clarified someplace (maybe the >G forums) as being instead of rather than in addition to. See also MacMog's more detailed explanation above.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Thanks. I've found this clarification (that "would be" should be interpreted to include an implied "instead") mentioned in several places within the large Rules and Clarifications document found here. I now agree that the first hero chosen to discard a card would get away freely.
 
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