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Subject: How can I make this game fun? rss

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Kevin Callahan
United States
New York
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My partner and I are pretty intense gamers and A:NR has a ton of appeal for us, but after about 10-15 games, we have had 0 fun with it. I keep buying data packs in an attempt to liven up our games but it has not worked. We've found our games boil down to waiting for the right card to float to the top. Our runner decks have had the most problems. I usually play corp and after about five turns, he just can't break through my ice. We end up just sitting there waiting for me to draw and score my agendas.

Clearly we are missing something. Is this a common experience? I don't want to give up on it.

Full disclosure: We both have a very strong MtG background.
 
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Anon Y. Mous
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Sounds like you're adding an imaginary End the Run subroutine to all your ice.

If it doesn't specifically say it ends the run, it doesn't.
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Lysander
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Playing a card game with the same person would be repetitive no matter what game it was. Mix it up, find more adversaries, and it'll take quite a while for the game to get dull, especially with all of the possible strategies for each person to use with the upcoming data packs.
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Ryan McLelland
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1. Don't play one side. Play both. It is too easy to get into a group think if the runner thinks they are just doomed.

2. Go to cardgamedb.com and look up some decks with high ratings. See if they seem very different from the decks you are building.

3. The runner has to run and run often. The economy in A:NR is really tight. If the runner isn't keeping the corp honest it is going to be a long game.

4. I think you may have an end the run issue like was stated above. If the ice doesn't specifically say "END RUN" then you can pay the consequence and still move forward.

Hope some of those help.
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Mike Bialecki
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I know it sounds pedantic, but make sure you are playing correctly. Many of these "the Runner (or corporation) always wins" problems stems from some misunderstanding or missing of a crucial rule. There's no way the corporation should be winning as easily as you describe unless you guys are building runner decks with no ICE-breakers.
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Nelson Wong
Australia
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Having also come to this game with an MtG background, I would suggest you forget everything and start afresh. Basically none of the concepts you're used to will transfer to Netrunner.
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Ber -
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You're definitely missing something! From a beginner level through to advanced, its pretty odd to have more than a couple of boring games in a row, there are usually a lot of really close games full of bluffs and tough calls on both sides guessing how outmaneuver the other player.

It's hard to say what exactly you're missing with the information so far but I'll have a go.

In regards to the runner having trouble breaking through ICE here are some suggestions:
Deckbuilding:
- Include 3x Special Order to help you find breakers faster
- Include 3 copies each of a breaker of each type (corroder, killer, decoder)
- Consider spending influence on out-of-faction breakers - having good breakers is often really important
- Consider including at least one copy of Crypsis - you don't want it as your only breaker for too long, but it makes short work of lots decks running a lot of cheap End the Run ICE
- Make good use of Inside Job, Sneakdoor Beta and Emergency Shutdown to get into servers that seemed secure.

While playing:
-Play risky as the runner - running ICE even if you may not be able to break it, if you don't, you'll probably lose.
-Run on the corp early and often, especially before playing any programs, to force them to spend all their money rezzing ICE or else let you steal some Agendas from R&D / HQ
-Don't be afraid to draw more than one card per turn. When you need a breaker badly, go ahead and draw 4 cards until you find it, trashing other cards at end of turn as necessary
-Remember that unless ICE has an 'End the Run' subroutine, you can pass it without breaking it - you just suffer the consequences of the routines
-Consider holding your barrier & decoder breaker in hand so you can deploy it as a surprise advantage after the corp starts advancing ICE behind a wall or code gate ICE that they thought would hold you out.
-This will take a bit to learn, but choose your runs carefully so as to not go broke - eg don't burn credits running a well defended R&D early game if that will mean the corp can safely put down an Agenda in a remote because you now can't afford to run it

Advice for the corp player:
If you're playing an 'optimal' deck full of cheap End the Run ICE, good econ, and HB 'Engineering the Future' identity, chuck that away and make a fun deck with Jinteki or NBN, using ambushes, bluffing and mind games to win. It probably won't win as often (at least early on until you get really good at Netrunner), but it makes for some really fun games!

I'm sure you had figured out at least some of the above already, but hopefully its some help.

Let us know how you go!
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Patrick G.
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Lysander1 wrote:
Playing a card game with the same person would be repetitive no matter what game it was. Mix it up, find more adversaries, and it'll take quite a while for the game to get dull, especially with all of the possible strategies for each person to use with the upcoming data packs.

This is untrue. I play with the same guy wednesday after wednesday. And it is still very enjoyable.
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Patrick G.
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Bankrupt on Baltic wrote:
My partner and I are pretty intense gamers and A:NR has a ton of appeal for us, but after about 10-15 games, we have had 0 fun with it. I keep buying data packs in an attempt to liven up our games but it has not worked. We've found our games boil down to waiting for the right card to float to the top. Our runner decks have had the most problems. I usually play corp and after about five turns, he just can't break through my ice. We end up just sitting there waiting for me to draw and score my agendas.

Clearly we are missing something. Is this a common experience? I don't want to give up on it.

Full disclosure: We both have a very strong MtG background.

If you have a strong mtg background and you don't enjoy this game you are obviously doing something VERY wrong. Re read the rules and DON'T ASSUME ANYTHING. The biggest problem that happens with games like this is people add imaginary bits to the rules.
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Matthew H
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Remember to pay 1 for each ICE that comes before the new install...

I remember my first few games, I had PILES of ICE on servers because I wasn't paying the extra cost to install. It quickly became overwhelmingly impossible for the runner to get in. Woops.
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Erin OConnor
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I would watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAslVfZ9p-Y

And then I may also suggest watching this video as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3w0B7txipk

They point out a few things in this video that are not included in the FFG one. (eg. how trace/link works)
 
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Bankrupt on Baltic wrote:
My partner and I are pretty intense gamers and A:NR has a ton of appeal for us, but after about 10-15 games, we have had 0 fun with it. I keep buying data packs
Why?

If the game's not fun for you, move on, there are a ton a fun 2 player card games out there. Maybe give A:NR a break and give it another try later down the road.
 
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Alejandro G.
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MtG was fun? Color me surprised.
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Beyer
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What decks are you building?
Do you keep at least 9 breakers in the deck as well as ways to tutor for them?
Do you have a plan for drawing, installing and maintaining those breakers?
Is the runner economy solid?
Is the runner deck unfocused and the corp deck focused?
Do you switch sides?
Do you pay the extra install cost when installing ice beyond the first on a server?
What is the runner's Mulligan policy?
Are you installing assets and agendas in the same remote servers?
Are you installing assets or agendas in centrals?
Do you treat every unbroken subroutine as an End The Run (ETR)?
Do you think the runner needs a card to actually make a run? (friend of mine thought this, you know like the text on Inside Job and Stimhack...)
Are you playing Haas Bioroid and won't let the runner click their way through bioroid subroutines with no icebreakers installed?
Do you forget to clear tags?
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Lou Lessing
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Either your decks are constructed poorly or you're playing wrong.

Netrunner's not for everyone, but if one side's always winning you're doing something wrong.

I doubt you're making terrible decks. Given an MTG background I expect you both understand the fundamentals of consistency and balancing economy with cards that do things (the numbers are obviously different, but cards that gain you credits in some fashion are almost as important to a Netrunner deck as lands are to a Magic deck.

So I'm betting you've got a rule wrong. Are you maybe trashing icebreakers when you use them?
 
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Peter O
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Bankrupt on Baltic wrote:
My partner and I are pretty intense gamers and A:NR has a ton of appeal for us, but after about 10-15 games, we have had 0 fun with it. I keep buying data packs in an attempt to liven up our games but it has not worked. We've found our games boil down to waiting for the right card to float to the top. Our runner decks have had the most problems. I usually play corp and after about five turns, he just can't break through my ice. We end up just sitting there waiting for me to draw and score my agendas.

Clearly we are missing something. Is this a common experience? I don't want to give up on it.

Full disclosure: We both have a very strong MtG background.


Depending upon where you are in New York, if you can get to an existing ANR group even for just one session you'll probably learn a whole bunch of things to shake stuff up (whether rules or tactics). Its clear there is a NYC group. Upstate will be more hit or miss.
 
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David Boeren
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It's pretty obvious that you must be doing some things incorrectly. It's hard to tell exactly what they are, but I'd start by re-reading how to do a run and making sure you're paying the extra bits to install ICE beyond the 1st piece in each server.
 
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Gregory Pettigrew
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Oh, and when you do figure out what's been going wrong, please tell us!
 
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Kaiwen Zhang
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you start with 4 mus.

that was a problem another guy had, couldnt install anything.
 
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Kevin Callahan
United States
New York
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All of the rules problems that you guys have mentioned (paying to install additional ice, all ice ending the run) were problems for us in the beginning. We have a pretty good handle on the rules now though. Our problem comes from an inevitability about the game. Our games tend to create gamestates that one player simply can't overcome. Then we wait the ten to fifteen minutes that it takes for the other player to finally win.

I'm going to build a runner deck right now and see if switching sides works.

Thank you to everyone for your feedback.
 
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Sam Witticaster

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Bankrupt on Baltic wrote:
My partner and I are pretty intense gamers and A:NR has a ton of appeal for us, but after about 10-15 games, we have had 0 fun with it. I keep buying data packs in an attempt to liven up our games but it has not worked. We've found our games boil down to waiting for the right card to float to the top. Our runner decks have had the most problems. I usually play corp and after about five turns, he just can't break through my ice. We end up just sitting there waiting for me to draw and score my agendas.

Clearly we are missing something. Is this a common experience? I don't want to give up on it.

Full disclosure: We both have a very strong MtG background.



I highly recommend reading the rules thoroughly and watching some tutorial videos. If the runner is truly struggling to this degree, you are probably misinterpreting the rules somehow. There are some common ones that a lot of people starting out have been confused over in the past.

If you could post saying what specifically is making it hard for the runner to get into servers, that might go a long way to people here being able to identify what's going on.
 
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Geoff Hollis
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Bankrupt on Baltic wrote:
Our games tend to create gamestates that one player simply can't overcome.


Can you provide an example?

There is very likely an issue with how you guys are playing that will be pretty much impossible to pin down without specifics.
 
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Kevin Callahan
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New York
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In last night's game, he was Gabe and I was Weyland. He kept running on HQ but he only found an agenda one time. He had a tough time getting to his barrier breaker and I had Hadrian's Wall out on both my archives preventing his sneakdoor beta, and one on my remote that I used to advance agendas. He couldn't beat it so he just kept running on HQ. Between Gabe's ability and the bad publicity I'd gotten from Hostile Takeover it was free for him. We ended up sitting around waiting for me to draw and score my agendas. By the time he got his barrier breaker, he didn't have the money to use it effectively.

His main complaint is that he can tell who is going to win fifteen minutes before the game is over.
 
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Brian Moore
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So he's playing Gabe, successfully hitting HQ, and being kept out of remotes by 10 cost Ice? Sounds to me like the runner deck is terrible. Where's Emergency Shutdown? Special Order? Femme Fatale? Account Siphon?
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j n
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Niil945 wrote:
So he's playing Gabe, successfully hitting HQ, and being kept out of remotes by 10 cost Ice? Sounds to me like the runner deck is terrible. Where's Emergency Shutdown? Special Order? Femme Fatale? Account Siphon?


Or Crypsis? Inside Job?
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