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Subject: Wharf - When can I use it? rss

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Michael Fan
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Yet another wharf question, I apologize if it was asked before.

Can I decide to wharf my goods off without first using a ship?

The situation was as follows. I had a monopoly on tobacco due to some lucky draws and also had a wharf. One ship was half-filled up with tobacco, so to deprive the other players use of the ship, I decided during the captain phase to ship my tobacco with my wharf instead of being forced to fill up the tobacco ship. Was this a correct use of the wharf? Thanks.
 
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David
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IIRC, you may use your populated wharf to ship all of one type of good as long as no 'real' ships hold that good and have space available.

That's from memory - I hope I'm right because I don't want to confuse you. Hopefully someone will slap me and tell me I'm wrong, if I am.
 
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Dave Eisen
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Consider yourself slapped. The original poster's use of the wharf was completely fine.
 
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David
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Yes, my apologies. That will teach me not to read the rules before commenting.

"This imaginary ship can take any one good, but it may be of a kind on one of the three cargo ships or the other imaginary wharf ship. Note: When a player uses his wharf, he must load all the goods barrels of the kind he chooses that he has."
 
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Yehuda Berlinger
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So yes, you can completely ignore the state of the boats to load on your wharf, once per captain phase. That means that you can load all of one type of goods onto your wharf, even if there is space to ship them. Shipping then passes to the next player.

Yehuda

And before you ask, you can also ship a type of goods onto an open boat, even if this leaves you with barrels remaining of that type, and then ship the remaining barrels onto your wharf. So if a boat has slots available for two corn, and you have four corns, you can first ship two corn on the boat and then two corns on your wharf. If you choose to ship first onto your wharf, you must ship all four corn onto the wharf.
 
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whistler
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meowsqueak wrote:
"This imaginary ship can take any one good, but it may be of a kind on one of the three cargo ships or the other imaginary wharf ship. Note: When a player uses his wharf, he must load all the goods barrels of the kind he chooses that he has."


What's the point of the "but"? Is it a translation issue, or a typo of some sort? Why don't the rules simply say "This imaginary ship can take any one good"? Or perhaps, "This imaginary ship can take any one good, even if if one of the ships already carries that good." When I first read the rules, the use of the word "but" suggested that a "not" was mistakenly omitted, as in, "This imaginary ship can take any one good, but it may NOT be of a kind on one of the three cargo ships or the other imaginary wharf ship."
 
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Chris Hawks
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I think the "but" in the Wharf rules is trying to say something along the lines of

"This imaginary ship can take any one good, but unlike the regular cargo ships, it may be of a kind on one of the three cargo ships..."

Somewhat confusing the way they worded it, yes, but it's still perfectly understandable (and correct.)
 
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David
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The think the emphasis is on the word 'may' and not the word 'but'.

I agree it could be worded better.
 
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C.K. Au
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Salt-Man Z wrote:
I think the "but" in the Wharf rules is trying to say something along the lines of

"This imaginary ship can take any one good, but unlike the regular cargo ships, it may be of a kind on one of the three cargo ships..."


but this would still make it confusing..... I would have implied from the above sentence you can only ship on your wharf one of the three good on the cargo ships.

But the wharf can SHIP any goods even if they are not on any cargo ships now.

I agree with native_son the best translation would simply be ""This imaginary ship can take any one good."

If you want to make it clearer... add

"This imaginary ship can take any one good, even if they are not being shipped on the three cargo ships."

The use of "but" simply confuses the entire rule. In fact, my first play of PR, we followed the "wrong" ver ie. we only allow the wharf to ship what's already on the three ships. Later after reading thru some of the posts here, we reverted to the correct one of allowing the wharf to freely ship any goods.


 
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whistler
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Another confusing part of the rules (at least the Rio Grande rules) is the inclusion of two contradictory sentences. One says that the capacity of the wharf is unlimited, but another says that its capacity is 11. I know that there are at most 11 of every good in the game, and thus you can never load more than 11 goods, so that's not my issue. My issue is that when you say the capacity is 11, the reader may be tempted to wait for it to "fill to capacity" before "clearing it". Suppose he has used his wharf to ship 10 goods over the past couple of rounds, and now he is in a new captain phase. Can he only ship one good on his wharf this turn, since the capacity is 11? I highly doubt this was the intention (and nobody plays this way) otherwise an 11-capacity ship card would have been provided for the wharf in order to keep track of such things. So the rules would have been better off leaving the capacity at "unlimited" rather than 11.
 
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Chris Hawks
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native son,

But don't the Wharf rules say that any goods shipped on the Wharf are placed directly into the supply?
 
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Chris Hawks
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jack208 wrote:
I would have implied from the above sentence you can only ship on your wharf one of the three good on the cargo ships.

I'm sorry, but how do you get that from "can take any one good...[that] may be of a kind on one of the cargo ships"?
 
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whistler
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Salt-Man Z wrote:
native son,

But don't the Wharf rules say that any goods shipped on the Wharf are placed directly into the supply?


Yes, but that doesn't make up for the inconsistency. The word capacity is used. What does capacity MEAN in the context of shipping? It means precisely the point at which a ship is "full" and then cleared. So it is bad form to speak of the wharf as having capacity 11. Unlimited capacity makes sense, however. But ultimately, what bothers me most is the inclusion of two directly contradictory sentences. The Rio Grande rules directly state that the capacity of the wharf is unlimited, and then later directly state that the capacity of the wharf is 11. Despite the fact that you can probably work our the intended meaning, the fact that both of these statements are included is a bit ridiculous. It really should be edited for future productions, along with some of the other suggestions made in these threads.
 
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Chris Hawks
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native_son wrote:
What does capacity MEAN in the context of shipping? It means precisely the point at which a ship is "full" and then cleared.

I would argue that "capacity" in terms of shipping refers only to the maximum barrels that a ship can hold. The method of emptying a cargo ship is a property of the 3 cargo ships themselves, rather than an extension of the definition of "capacity". Note that a cargo ship is not emptied when it has reached capacity; it is only emptied when it is full and the Captain phase has ended. Also note that the Wharf ship itself is emptied after each use, regardless of whether or not it has reached "capacity".

And as "capacity" only refers to the max number of barrels a ship can hold, in the case of the Wharf a capacity of 11 is a no-limit capacity.

Please note, I'm not arguing that these oddly-worded rules don't need to be changed. I just think a bigger deal is being made of them than is warranted. A careful reading of the complete rules and examples given in the English PR rulebook should never lead you astray.
 
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